I had a smile the entire time when watching the first part of the crossover. Despite some CW-ness, that episode, and the crossover in it's entirety, made my week.
There's something very nostalgic about having John Wesley Shipp take on Mark Hamill's Trickster on Earth-3… like watching the 90’s version of the Flash again.
The Flash is like stuck in a time loop. Every Season it's a Speedster villain throw in some Time Travel with a little helping of keeping big secrets from someone who will find out eventually anyways on the side.
The Flash isn't just about Speedster villains. And he only Time Travels on very special occasions. But that's what this series is all about for some reason? And this season it just isn't working because Savitar is nowhere near as interesting as RF or Zoom.
And Flash/Barry himself is becoming a very annoying character. I haven't read a lot of the New 52 Flash or Rebirth. But has Barry become this much of a brooding dummy like he is in the show?
I think the 2nd half of this season is a flipping of the bird to those griping about the...well, the stuff we're griping about! :)
Oh, you're tired of a time-travel conundrum with a speedster each episode? Well here's a whole bunch of episodes about a time-travel conundrum with a speedster at the end of it! Suck it, fanboys! :)
Either way, there's gonna be a gorilla attack, so I'm in.
The characters seem to act more and more juvenile as the weeks go on. I get the whole "target audience" thing, but the "Wacky Highjinks" factor (Goofy Wells' self-esteem project of creating a STAR museum...or something), Wally's constant pouting/bragging jags, Barry's ever-present ANGST, and...of course...the non-stop time paradox flim-flammery just feels more like "Central City 90210" than a cool sci-fi adventure show.
I'm in agreement with most of the opinions in this thread. The Flash is still my favorite CW show. However, I do feel this season has come up a little short. I can't place my finger as to why I feel this way about the current season. It feels like the show has lost some of its magic since season 1. Thoughts?
One of the problems it has become a very CW show. Especially Barry, he has become a classic CW character.
And there is to many of the same troupes every season. They need to go out on a limb and just make Grodd a villain for a Season. I'd be much more interested in that then Savitar.
And a thing that it's suffering from is that it has a lot of characters. And it's tough balancing all these characters. And someone like Joe gets lost in the shuffle.
With that said I did enjoy this most recent episode. Getting more into Cisco's powers is great. And seeing the multiple Earth's was cool.
Iris storyline was not great. And her arrogance that she wouldn't die because she dies later is flawed. Because the whole point of this 2nd half of this season is them trying to change the future. Which somethings have already changed. Proving Iris can die before she's "Supposed" to.
I still think HR may not be good? I feel like the notes he keeps for his book are for someone else?
And Wally stopping Savitar clearly won't happen on his own. It's probably going to take Barry, Wally, Jessie, and Jay to defeat him together.
Earth 19 Harrison Wells is THE WORST! Get RID of this simpleton! Why are we wasting more time with this nincompoop? A sci-fi novelist hanging around STAR labs? WHY?
Wow, this show has fallen so far from its first season heights. What a crashing disappointment.
This latest episode of the Flash was OK but extremely illogical at parts. "Barry you can't kill Grodd because it will change you forever" Except he has already killed. He killed several of the Earth 2 baddies at the beginning of Season 2.
And why couldn't they just use the device that they used last season to stop the Earth 2 Meta's? It wouldn't have stopped Grodd but it should be able to stop the Army since they should be vibrating at same frequency as the E2 Meta's?
This show really has lost it's way. All this melo drama is driving me crazy.
When they mentioned that Savitar was in the Speedforce and that's where they threw stone. OMG Hand to forehead moment. Literally everyone talked about that when it happened and said how stupid it was to put the Stone there. And it turns out yes that was incredibly stupid.
And Savitar gets out and the first thing he does is to let the Flash live so he can "Suffer". LoL yeah right. More like so you can give them enough time to figure out how to defeat you? Just lame generic excuses.
This Season of the Flash is every bit as bad as Seasons 3 and 4 of Arrow. The CW clearly has no idea how to do a good Season 3?
I think both Arrow and Legends have been so much better than the Flash this year? It's not even close.
The sheer amount of slow talking head scenes almost drove me insane. So many Special Emotional Moments, so little action. And can we PLEASE be done with evil speedsters with electronically distorted voices? Good lord, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard! And what's with this whiny, emotional marshmallow cast? Intensely unlikable, made worse by the "comedy relief" of the imbecilic "HW" character (WHY IS HE HERE????) Are 14 year old girls writing the scripts to this show? Wow....this show has really fallen from its Season One heights.
This show really has lost it's way. All this melo drama is driving me crazy.
When they mentioned that Savitar was in the Speedforce and that's where they threw stone. OMG Hand to forehead moment. Literally everyone talked about that when it happened and said how stupid it was to put the Stone there. And it turns out yes that was incredibly stupid.
I'm enjoying it still.
It actually turns out that what Caitlin did, keeping a part of the stone, was what was keeping Savitar from not getting out. Wally goofed by throwing it in to the Speed Force and I was nearly yelling at the TV hoping Barry was going to get there soon enough to catch it to keep it from going in, but of course the better payoff will be a final battle, versus that ending the threat right then and there.
This show really has lost it's way. All this melo drama is driving me crazy.
When they mentioned that Savitar was in the Speedforce and that's where they threw stone. OMG Hand to forehead moment. Literally everyone talked about that when it happened and said how stupid it was to put the Stone there. And it turns out yes that was incredibly stupid.
I'm enjoying it still.
It actually turns out that what Caitlin did, keeping a part of the stone, was what was keeping Savitar from not getting out. Wally goofed by throwing it in to the Speed Force and I was nearly yelling at the TV hoping Barry was going to get there soon enough to catch it to keep it from going in, but of course the better payoff will be a final battle, versus that ending the threat right then and there.
Yeah except Barry just stood there and tried to do nothing.
This show really has lost it's way. All this melo drama is driving me crazy.
When they mentioned that Savitar was in the Speedforce and that's where they threw stone. OMG Hand to forehead moment. Literally everyone talked about that when it happened and said how stupid it was to put the Stone there. And it turns out yes that was incredibly stupid.
I'm enjoying it still.
It actually turns out that what Caitlin did, keeping a part of the stone, was what was keeping Savitar from not getting out. Wally goofed by throwing it in to the Speed Force and I was nearly yelling at the TV hoping Barry was going to get there soon enough to catch it to keep it from going in, but of course the better payoff will be a final battle, versus that ending the threat right then and there.
Yeah except Barry just stood there and tried to do nothing.
Right, I wasn't crazy about that. But that was after the throwing in of the part of the stone. But Barry didn't necessarily know that. Frozen with fear. Seems like a problem that characters have on this show, simply to build tension and progress the plot.
1) Barry's kind of becoming an asshole. With good reason, but he's becoming an asshole. I like that over weepy-Barry. 2) Cisco as Vibe is the real fun of the show for me. He hasn't even scratched the surface of what he can do. 3) I liked the dual Harrison Wells episodes. Shame they couldn't shoot the current version back home and leave the Earth-2 one. 4) Draco Malfoy. I didn't think I'd dig him on the show, but he's really a fun foil for Barry and the crew.
Things I'm not: 1) Savitar. Great design, but horrible voice. Half the time I have no clue what he's saying. I've got no problem with the constant barrage of speed-based villains, but after Zoom and Savitar I need someone who speaks normally next time, okay? 2) Wally. Is it wrong that I was happy he got sucked into the Speed Force? It's okay, I never cared for him when I was reading Titans, either. :) 3) Kaitlin. She always...always...looks like she's on the verge of tears. Give her a big crying scene and be done with it.
Who is Savitar? Has to be someone we've seen before to make it mean anything. After last night I was thinking it could be Wally. He said Flash didn't give him his speed, he gave it to himself. That mystery is whats keeping me into the show. I know its the same stuff as the first 2 seasons and agree its time for a non-speedster big bad.
So who would *be* season four's non-speedster Big Bad?
Do the Rogues reunite for a season long crime spree? Does Grodd develop the ultimate plan for revenge? Do we finally get the Crisis on Infinite Earths?
Or do they break away from the season-long villain and just have a season of short Flash adventures?
Or do they break away from the season-long villain and just have a season of short Flash adventures?
Yes, shorter adventures would be ideal. The season-long storyline is tiring and very meandering in pace. Give me a series of great, tight episodes that celebrate high adventure...not the Scooby Gang sitting around STAR labs watching HW spin his drumsticks or having heart-to-heart talks. This is THE FLASH, not Dr. Phil!
I've seen some online buzz about someone getting cast as Flash villain Abra-Cadabra, so it appears there may be a light at the end of the long, dark tunnel of perpetual speed villains.
Abra-Cadabra would be a great villain to bring in.
Yes, a giant step away from the repetition of super-speedster villains, as well as the gun-wielding variety of Rogue represented by Captain Cold and Heatwave.
I'm also hoping for more of a presence from Jay Garrick. He's the real mentor figure this show needs, not this idiot-version of Harrison Wells. But I suspect we won't be getting that.
Or do they break away from the season-long villain and just have a season of short Flash adventures?
This.
I know season long stories are "the thing," but even in season one they had episodes that felt like filler. Tighten it up and this show could be so much better.
Who is Savitar? Has to be someone we've seen before to make it mean anything. After last night I was thinking it could be Wally. He said Flash didn't give him his speed, he gave it to himself. That mystery is whats keeping me into the show. I know its the same stuff as the first 2 seasons and agree its time for a non-speedster big bad.
Gotta be Wally. His relative deference to Joe clued me in fairly quickly. The fact that he's threatening Iris and not Jessie (like, at ALL). What you mentioned about him giving himself speed. Etc.
Gotham has been doing shorter arcs so well. The Mad Hatter, The Commish going insane as the Executioner, then Mario, Jerome coming back, The Penguin vs. The Riddler and whatever has been going on with Bruce. So much goes on with that show.
This episode was good in parts but stupid in others.
Basically everything in the Speed Force was good. Cool seeing Eddie, Ronnie, The Black Flash, Snart, and Jay. That stuff was good. Jay having to take Wally's place would suck if they of course weren't going to save him.
But Jessie going after Savitar and her hurting him was OK. I am super happy she left. I don't mind her it's just 2 Speedsters on the good guy side is plenty.
But the terrible part was the ending. CW legitimately has zero idea how to write good relationship stuff across all of the DC Shows.
They just don't write any realism in their relationships at all. Nobody on Earth would do or react the way they do in this Universe. It's just ridiculous and is the worst part about The Flash, Arrow, Legends, Supergirl.
Comments
The Flash isn't just about Speedster villains. And he only Time Travels on very special occasions. But that's what this series is all about for some reason? And this season it just isn't working because Savitar is nowhere near as interesting as RF or Zoom.
And Flash/Barry himself is becoming a very annoying character. I haven't read a lot of the New 52 Flash or Rebirth. But has Barry become this much of a brooding dummy like he is in the show?
Oh, you're tired of a time-travel conundrum with a speedster each episode? Well here's a whole bunch of episodes about a time-travel conundrum with a speedster at the end of it! Suck it, fanboys! :)
Either way, there's gonna be a gorilla attack, so I'm in.
And there is to many of the same troupes every season. They need to go out on a limb and just make Grodd a villain for a Season. I'd be much more interested in that then Savitar.
And a thing that it's suffering from is that it has a lot of characters. And it's tough balancing all these characters. And someone like Joe gets lost in the shuffle.
With that said I did enjoy this most recent episode. Getting more into Cisco's powers is great. And seeing the multiple Earth's was cool.
Iris storyline was not great. And her arrogance that she wouldn't die because she dies later is flawed. Because the whole point of this 2nd half of this season is them trying to change the future. Which somethings have already changed. Proving Iris can die before she's "Supposed" to.
I still think HR may not be good? I feel like the notes he keeps for his book are for someone else?
And Wally stopping Savitar clearly won't happen on his own. It's probably going to take Barry, Wally, Jessie, and Jay to defeat him together.
Wow, this show has fallen so far from its first season heights. What a crashing disappointment.
And why couldn't they just use the device that they used last season to stop the Earth 2 Meta's? It wouldn't have stopped Grodd but it should be able to stop the Army since they should be vibrating at same frequency as the E2 Meta's?
When they mentioned that Savitar was in the Speedforce and that's where they threw stone. OMG Hand to forehead moment. Literally everyone talked about that when it happened and said how stupid it was to put the Stone there. And it turns out yes that was incredibly stupid.
And Savitar gets out and the first thing he does is to let the Flash live so he can "Suffer". LoL yeah right. More like so you can give them enough time to figure out how to defeat you? Just lame generic excuses.
This Season of the Flash is every bit as bad as Seasons 3 and 4 of Arrow. The CW clearly has no idea how to do a good Season 3?
I think both Arrow and Legends have been so much better than the Flash this year? It's not even close.
It actually turns out that what Caitlin did, keeping a part of the stone, was what was keeping Savitar from not getting out. Wally goofed by throwing it in to the Speed Force and I was nearly yelling at the TV hoping Barry was going to get there soon enough to catch it to keep it from going in, but of course the better payoff will be a final battle, versus that ending the threat right then and there.
1) Barry's kind of becoming an asshole. With good reason, but he's becoming an asshole. I like that over weepy-Barry.
2) Cisco as Vibe is the real fun of the show for me. He hasn't even scratched the surface of what he can do.
3) I liked the dual Harrison Wells episodes. Shame they couldn't shoot the current version back home and leave the Earth-2 one.
4) Draco Malfoy. I didn't think I'd dig him on the show, but he's really a fun foil for Barry and the crew.
Things I'm not:
1) Savitar. Great design, but horrible voice. Half the time I have no clue what he's saying. I've got no problem with the constant barrage of speed-based villains, but after Zoom and Savitar I need someone who speaks normally next time, okay?
2) Wally. Is it wrong that I was happy he got sucked into the Speed Force? It's okay, I never cared for him when I was reading Titans, either. :)
3) Kaitlin. She always...always...looks like she's on the verge of tears. Give her a big crying scene and be done with it.
Do the Rogues reunite for a season long crime spree? Does Grodd develop the ultimate plan for revenge? Do we finally get the Crisis on Infinite Earths?
Or do they break away from the season-long villain and just have a season of short Flash adventures?
I've seen some online buzz about someone getting cast as Flash villain Abra-Cadabra, so it appears there may be a light at the end of the long, dark tunnel of perpetual speed villains.
I'm also hoping for more of a presence from Jay Garrick. He's the real mentor figure this show needs, not this idiot-version of Harrison Wells. But I suspect we won't be getting that.
I know season long stories are "the thing," but even in season one they had episodes that felt like filler. Tighten it up and this show could be so much better.
Basically everything in the Speed Force was good. Cool seeing Eddie, Ronnie, The Black Flash, Snart, and Jay. That stuff was good. Jay having to take Wally's place would suck if they of course weren't going to save him.
But Jessie going after Savitar and her hurting him was OK. I am super happy she left. I don't mind her it's just 2 Speedsters on the good guy side is plenty.
But the terrible part was the ending. CW legitimately has zero idea how to write good relationship stuff across all of the DC Shows.
They just don't write any realism in their relationships at all. Nobody on Earth would do or react the way they do in this Universe. It's just ridiculous and is the worst part about The Flash, Arrow, Legends, Supergirl.