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Luke Cage: Season Two

Did anyone else watch this season? I’ll avoid spoilers, but I thought this season was superior to the prior one. Part of that could be I’m more familiar with the character then the first season. Another part would be the villain.

Positives:
Mustafa Shakir was amazing. He had this commanding presence Diamondback lacked. They gave Bushmaster more depth, too. I completely bought the Jamaican accent...until I watched some of the presser and found he doesn’t have an accent.

Misty Knight has become one of my favorite characters in this corner of the MCU. There were several moments Simone Missick delivered. They handled her amputation excellently.

Favorite dialogue “how do you know YOU aren’t MY sidekick?!” To which Luke replied “it’s my show!”

I can’t wait to see how her story arc continues.

Negative:
Still probably could’ve trimmed an episode or two.

I think they layed too hard on the “police won’t trust us/can’t be trusted.” Luke even comments that as a bulletproof black man, his testimony won’t mean anything. That’s weird coming from a former police officer & someone working with a lead detective.

The biggest issue I had was the language. There are two words I actively try to avoid hearing; one of them is the N word. I’ve had to buy ‘clean edit’ versions of songs just to avoid it. I find the “we own the word” notion as ridiculous as the “they use it, so it must be okay if I do” notion. I don’t recall it used in season one, but they went all in with this one; specifically Mariah.

Comments

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Here’s why we need a Daughters of the Dragon series:

    https://youtu.be/IyMumktc51k

  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    Matt, I've only seen 6 episodes but I agree that it's much better than the first season which I found far too slowly paced to watch (dear god, all those languid scenes of R&B bands playing! No thanks!) I also think the villain is a huge improvement and I'm loving Misty and the direction I'm hoping things go for her (a la your video above).


    Was Luke Cage previously a cop on this show? I remember someone mentioning something like that but I didn't recall him being a cop in the comics, but maybe I'm mistaken. You make a good point about the show's use of the N word. While these shows seem to be designed for teens and up, I'm sure there are a lot of young black kids who watch the show. I'm sure the creators of the show would argue that the use of the N word makes the dialogue more authentic and the show more "realistic", but that's a crock when the streets on the show are usually remarkably devoid of people hanging out (and I'm speaking as a NYC native) and they've turned Luke Cage into the most (IMO) ridiculously noble character. So much so that he can't even stomach the idea of also using his powers for profit or personal benefit. If they'd let him start his own Heroes for Hire from the start, he'd be a lot more relatable and human to everyone watching, white or black. I presume they made that change for the kids.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Matt, I've only seen 6 episodes but I agree that it's much better than the first season which I found far too slowly paced to watch (dear god, all those languid scenes of R&B bands playing! No thanks!) I also think the villain is a huge improvement and I'm loving Misty and the direction I'm hoping things go for her (a la your video above).


    Was Luke Cage previously a cop on this show? I remember someone mentioning something like that but I didn't recall him being a cop in the comics, but maybe I'm mistaken. You make a good point about the show's use of the N word. While these shows seem to be designed for teens and up, I'm sure there are a lot of young black kids who watch the show. I'm sure the creators of the show would argue that the use of the N word makes the dialogue more authentic and the show more "realistic", but that's a crock when the streets on the show are usually remarkably devoid of people hanging out (and I'm speaking as a NYC native) and they've turned Luke Cage into the most (IMO) ridiculously noble character. So much so that he can't even stomach the idea of also using his powers for profit or personal benefit. If they'd let him start his own Heroes for Hire from the start, he'd be a lot more relatable and human to everyone watching, white or black. I presume they made that change for the kids.

    In the show (season 1, episode 4), they reveal he was initially a police officer. People have told Luke “I want to hire you, hero”, but they never seem to pay him!

    I’m hoping this gets a third season, especially with Jessica Jones getting another season and that one feeling like a chore to get through. It’s reminds me of the Shield. There was always a blurred line of who was the villain & heroes in that show.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    Oh ok. I wonder why they made him a police officer? Was he ever an officer in the comics? If he was a cop then yeah I agree that his comments about there's no way he'll get a fair shake a bit implausible. Actually now that I remember the exact scene you're talking about, I actually thought (SPOILER)
    SPOILER

    Foggy's insistence that he wouldn't get a fair trial was highly implausible even if he hadn't been a cop. He may be a black man, but he's also the beloved Hero of Harlem (on the cover of newspapers and there's an app with all his fans tracking him!) and he was beating up a wife batterer with a criminal history!
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    I don’t believe he was a police officer in the source material. Maybe the notion of a good person being framed is a better sell then a bad person turned good. Look at the revision to Sam Wilson’s background.

    I’m not certain how jury duty works in the 5 boroughs. Would residents of the Bronx only serve as jurors for matters in the Bronx? If so, chances are seeing Luke as a ‘witness’ should hold weight because of his hero status. It’s not like with Batman, a masked urban legend (or at least he was when I last read the title).
  • I loved the show- especially the second half of the season. My only qualm was the first few episodes every player had to "send a message" about his/her intentions. Why provoke Bushmaster only to not do anything when you win? Then Bushmaster does the same thing! It felt a bit like they wanted to introduce the characters to each other, but also knew they needed to fill 13 episodes, and nothing real could happen just yet.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    I'm up to episode 7 and I have to say I'm liking this 2nd season less and less. The prolonged musical numbers continue to test the patience of anyone interested in watching a story just like last year. I fast forward through about 20% of the show and it has little effect on understanding what's going on: Mariah continues to try and resolve her daughters disapproval of her and there's much talk about how Piranha is handling Mariah's funds. Meanwhile, super noble Luke is trying to resolve things with his dad. I find it shocking how little forward motion there is on what's supposed to be a superhero show. But I suppose you could say that about most of these Netflix Marvel shows. What's worse here is that 90% of the action scenes also fail to impress as we watch goons pointlessly attack Luke with things that we know can't possibly hurt him.

    I'm glad others are enjoying this but If not for Misty and Bushmaster, I'd stop watching.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    I'm up to episode 7 and I have to say I'm liking this 2nd season less and less. The prolonged musical numbers continue to test the patience of anyone interested in watching a story just like last year. I fast forward through about 20% of the show and it has little effect on understanding what's going on: Mariah continues to try and resolve her daughters disapproval of her and there's much talk about how Piranha is handling Mariah's funds. Meanwhile, super noble Luke is trying to resolve things with his dad. I find it shocking how little forward motion there is on what's supposed to be a superhero show. But I suppose you could say that about most of these Netflix Marvel shows. What's worse here is that 90% of the action scenes also fail to impress as we watch goons pointlessly attack Luke with things that we know can't possibly hurt him.

    I'm glad others are enjoying this but If not for Misty and Bushmaster, I'd stop watching.

    Those are actually important plotpoints. As I initially mentioned, it’s a couple episodes too long. That’s why Mariah/Tilda & Luke & his dad seem drawn out. There are payoffs.

    It’s humorous that people keep shooting Luke, but as one dude said this season “we at least have to say we tried.” It’s like people shooting at Kent, even though it’s pointless. In Luke’s case, how much less action would there be if your red shirt criminal didn’t try to attack him.
  • batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    I give it a solid 5 out of ten. Only marginally better than S1. The music was better and the story and performances were a bit better and more interesting and consistent (except for Woodard. She is all over the damn place). At least it was all more well rounded and linear and complete as a whole imo. End of the day there just isn’t much meat on the bone. I’m not attracted to it or invested in any of it. It’s just kindve there.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    SPOILERS SPOILERS

    So I finally saw episode 10 and Danny Rand showed up just in time to help me stave off boredom whenever Misty or Bushmaster are off screen. Not that I was a huge fan of the Iron Fist season either but at least with the two of them together it's a change. Danny also seems to be acting a little less oblivious than he did in his own season: "But I am Danny Rand! Why won't anyone believe me just because I say so!!?"

    Unfortunately I hated a chunk of their fight scene with the goons:

    So on the tv show, it seems like Danny can keep his iron fist perpetually "on" like a flashlight where it just glows pretty consistently. How lethal it is at any given time also seems to be a function of whatever the writers/director needs it to be at any given time. At one point he punches a regular guy with it and apparently he can hit Luke's hand as hard as he can and it won't affect Luke at all.

    In the comics when Danny used the fist it was something he reserved for emergencies and its power was accordingly impressive. Using it tired him out as well.

    I wonder if Jeph Loeb is signing off on these bad decisions to make Iron Fist and his power much less impressive than he should be?
  • mphilmphil Posts: 448
    I've finished season 2.

    SPOILERS BELOW

    Overall I liked it. I agree with some of the above comments that the season dragged on a bit in the second half.

    I never really bought the Shades / Mariah relationship.

    There was a little too much "grey area" in the characters overall; they tried to hard to make us sympathize with the bad guys. I think it was warranted with Bushmaster but not so much with Shades or Mariah.

    Bushmaster was amazing. Series regular please.

    Misty is a straight up ass kicker. Damn she's good. I wasn't aware of her character from the comics and didn't know about the Daughters of the Dragon... please make that series!

    I have very little background with Luke Cage from the comics. One thing I love about this show is every time I wikipedia character there's a ton of backstory about them, and the show seems to be honoring them.

    Not a big fan of Luke Cage becoming a crime lord. Didn't think it was justified. Basically he didn't take down the Italians because they threatened to kill a bunch of people... what was he supposed to do there exactly?

    More Hero for Hire please!
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    Mphil, did Luke Cage actually become a crime lord? I know that the creator showrunner wants us to think that he did in order to try and create a theme that "power corrupts" even Luke Cage, but I thought he did not make the case for it at all. To me the showrunner's constant insistence that Luke Cage has an anger issue and that power is corrupting him makes no sense for the character at all. Luke is so noble that he can't even stop himself from going out of his way to save Mariah despite repeatedly saying he would no longer do so. Also, in order to be a crime lord, you actually have to initiate and direct criminal acts, not arrange deals with actual crime lords to stop crime. For me, the showrunner's attempts to have it both ways - Luke is as noble as Superman, but he's also angry and corrupt?? - was the stupidest thing about the show. I agree with everything else you said though.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    I didn’t take it as Cage become the crime lord of Harlem; at least at this point. Earlier in the season, Cage commented that Harlem didn’t need a hero, it needed a king. I saw it similar to Doom with Latveria.

    I remember watching and thinking he’s trying to maintain Harlem by holding it in his fist. Just like a Justice Lord...and Fisk. That could create an interesting Defenders Season 2 story.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    Matt, I agree he wasn't a crime lord. My problem with the show is that the show runner wants us to think him being the protector of Harlem on a grand scale is in and of itself problematic. This is why Misty gives him a hard time even though he's done nothing but good deeds. She even warns him that she'll be watching him. The show runner clearly believes that having too much power us in and of itself a problem, but the problem is he's simultaneously written a character that's as unfailingly noble as Superman. I would've thought it made sense if Cage had ever shown the slightest indication that he was ever corrupted by anything. He doesn't even want to take money for making a personal appearance and basically has to be pushed into doing even that. He's just too noble.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    I agree that there’s a risk of power corrupting & put Cage into a position where he believes being the King of Harlem will serve to best protect Harlem. I don’t think Cheo Coker moves the pieces on the board to put him into that position.
  • mphilmphil Posts: 448
    I'm with @Vertighost on this one. That's what I was trying to articulate. The show set it up from the beginning like Luke has an anger problem, or his power/celebrity is getting to his head. Even though what we saw on screen didn't convey that.

    And then when he has to make a morally grey decision his friends treat it as though he was now a gangster or something.

    There was just a dissonance between what we saw happen on screen and the way Luke's friends reacted to it.
  • DARDAR Posts: 1,128
    Is it worth a watch? I haven't been impressed with the last several Marvel Netflix series (didn't watch Punisher).
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    DAR said:

    Is it worth a watch? I haven't been impressed with the last several Marvel Netflix series (didn't watch Punisher).

    It’s better then the first season, but mainly because of Bushmaster & Misty.

    Punisher I’d say ranks at the top with the 2 DD seasons. Especially if you go back and watch his stuff in DD S2 afterward.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 335
    @DAR, I agree with Matt: the Punisher is also one of my fave Marvel series. It'd be in my top 2 (I also really like the first season of Jessica Jones.) And this was definitely not a show I expected to like as I usually find the character too 1-dimensional. I highly recommend giving it a try. I think people didn't give it a enough of a chance after they were put off by iron fist.
  • fredzillafredzilla Posts: 2,131
    Finally got around to seeing it. I don't know why I put it off for so long, but with Iron Fist S2 out, I knew I wanted/needed to watch this first. Overall, it's a wonderful and strong season. The only real gripe I had with it was Alfre Woodard's performance (Mariah Stokes). While she a great job for the most part, there were times that her performance was off. Several times in episodes she sounded drunk as her speech was slurred. The thing was, she hadn't been drinking in that scene or any other previous scene. I couldn't tell if it was intentional or not, like she was drunk on the power she wielded? If that's the case, it didn't come across like that at all. I was often concerned that she may possibly be having a stroke.

    The best thing I think about the season is the literal "smack down" Cage put on various thugs. He'd wait until they were done doing what they needed to, like shooting at him, then he'd go up and grab them by the arm and then bop 'em on the head a la Little Bunny Foo Foo. I chuckled every time.
  • MihawkMihawk Posts: 433
    Well both Iron Fist and Luke Cage have been cancelled. Wonder what Netflix will do? Because the have the writes for those characters for a long time still. Wonder if they'll do Heroes For Hire? Or if they'll just fade away?

    And Iron Fist season 2 was much better then one. And how do these get cancelled and not Jessica Jones? Season 2 for that wasn't great.
  • mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 4,608
    Heroes for hire was what I was thinking.
  • RedRight88RedRight88 Posts: 2,207
    Mihawk said:

    Well both Iron Fist and Luke Cage have been cancelled. Wonder what Netflix will do? Because the have the writes for those characters for a long time still. Wonder if they'll do Heroes For Hire? Or if they'll just fade away?

    And Iron Fist season 2 was much better then one. And how do these get cancelled and not Jessica Jones? Season 2 for that wasn't great.

    I'm guessing that they will probably be moved to the Disney streaming service (whatever it's called). I also think that doing so could result in the shows being muted down to more of a TV-14 rating (just speculation on my part).
  • DARDAR Posts: 1,128
    Or they could move to Hulu
  • @Mihawk, since Netflix never reveals the ratings, it's all guess work. I am guessing that neither Fist, Cage nor Jones were all that big in the ratings department, but Jones' first season was a big critical hit (I think) and it's probably cheaper to produce. I am sure gender politics probably also played a role in the decision making process and since Jones storylines tend to resonate more the current #MeToo movement, that may have played a role in the decision making.

    I for one, would much prefer a Daughters of the Dragon show over another season of Fist or Cage. I would also prefer that somebody fresh was put in the position of show runner because the shows are all too same-y in their approach (a storyline stretched for way more episodes than necessary; a lot of repetitive conversations and ideas passing for character development; minimal action; nowhere near enough use of the hundreds of C-list super-powered characters in the Marvel universe; villains are far more interesting than the hero) I started watching the new season of DD. Dear god it is as glacially paced as always. And once again whenever Matt's on screen it drags. I watched desperate for the Kingpin.
  • @RedRight88, I hope they don't think making the shows more kid-friendly will help. I'd prefer they make the seasons shorter and make more use of the many C-list characters they could import from the Marvel Universe. Marvel acts like they're going to turn every character into a feature film.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    I noticed that too about
    fredzilla said:

    Finally got around to seeing it. I don't know why I put it off for so long, but with Iron Fist S2 out, I knew I wanted/needed to watch this first. Overall, it's a wonderful and strong season. The only real gripe I had with it was Alfre Woodard's performance (Mariah Stokes). While she a great job for the most part, there were times that her performance was off. Several times in episodes she sounded drunk as her speech was slurred. The thing was, she hadn't been drinking in that scene or any other previous scene. I couldn't tell if it was intentional or not, like she was drunk on the power she wielded? If that's the case, it didn't come across like that at all. I was often concerned that she may possibly be having a stroke.

    The best thing I think about the season is the literal "smack down" Cage put on various thugs. He'd wait until they were done doing what they needed to, like shooting at him, then he'd go up and grab them by the arm and then bop 'em on the head a la Little Bunny Foo Foo. I chuckled every time.

    I noticed that too about Alfie’s performance. There were several aspects of this season I wasn’t really into, though Bushmaster was not one of them (he was awesome). Between Iron Fist & Luke Cage, if only 1 got saved, I would’ve preferred a season 3 of Iron Fist. By the end of each season 2s, I was more interesting to see what happens with Colleen & Danny’s paths.
  • SPOILERS

    @Matt, agreed on liking the ending to IF Season 2 a lot more. Not only did the last 20 minutes suddenly make all the characters' storyline potential far more interesting, but the ending to Luke Cage made little sense. It climaxed with the idea (which they kept repeating throughout the season where it also made no sense) that somehow Luke Cage might be becoming a criminal in Misty's eyes, even though the show never gives any signs at all that that's ever the case. Like Mariah kept telling him, and the show kept showing, he was always going to do the right thing.
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