I loved the movie. I was not expecting Hulk to be so awesome. Plus with Thanos being the big bad behind it, it could bring back the Chitari as his personal army. Did anyone else get a thrill when the overseer told Thanos that to attack the humans would be to "court Death"
I think I always sound Whiney. But as dear Kyle said someone finally recognized me!!!!!!!
I don't think Matt was nitpickey really. He was making observations to launch conversation.
I think we all did sound kinda negative but we had reached that point. Gushing for three days as nerds will do, you devolve into the murky bullshit of how anything could have been better to serve one's personal vision.
I was trying to point out the amazing writing, acting, etc. Deemer seemed opposite-thinking to my opinion which is normal. I was enraptured by all the character moments.
I've realized that if I were ever to write and/or direct a superhero movie, Bryan would hate it except for the last half hour since we seem to look for opposite things. Fortunately for him, that's extremely unlikely to happen.
If it seemed as though we came off too nit-picky, it's only because the group couldn't do a gushing love-fest. We did that the whole weekend. There wasn't one out of about 15 of us who saw it on Friday night who thought it was anything less than a kickass movie.
M.
That's what I picked up just listening to the show. You guys have been gushing over it this weekend (like all of us) but you want to have some sort of critical analysis of the movie but there's not much there to criticize. It happens.
Matt - Are you going to see Amazing Spider-man? My seeing it depends on someone else's review of the movie that's more of a hardcore Spidey fan.
The specific ending is still something I can only guess at, but seeing how the promos are that this is the end of the Dark Knight Legend and with there being a cover up at the end of TDK, I can take a fairly decent stab at what all this means.
Batman's gonna die. I'm calling that now.
I thought this was going to the be ending or Batman unmasks himself to the public. I cannot image DC would greenlight a script that would have Batman get killed. Even though there will be a reboot, people will always think about THAT ending. Look how people reacted to the ending of Batman Begins with the Joker card.
My prediction: "The Dark Knight Legend Concludes" means Batman will be seen as the hero of Gotham, rather than the killing villain he appeared to be at the end of TDK. He'll be less like the creature of the night and more of a Caped Crusader (similar to the 70s/early 80s Batman)
My questioning about Pepper's attire was more of an observation based on what we've seen in 2 prior movies. She was always seen dressed professionally. Now granted, she is dating Tony, but it just seemed different than what I expected a casually dressed Pepper to wear.
Her outfit was a quick visual shorthand showing how intimate and comfortable their relationship has become. The microseconds it takes to see what she's wearing and make the inference saves valuable minutes of screen time.
Plus she looked really cute!
Truthfully, I think you guys put more thought into Pepper's outfit than I did. It was merely an observation I made, and the comment I made on the recording was more of a quip than a topic starter.
And WetRats, I'll take your word about how cute she looked. She doesn't really do anything for me.
You know, some of these posts made me do two things I normally don't do: 1.) listen to an episode I'm apart of and 2.) feel the need to justify the episode.
After listening to the episode, I have come to the belief that since this movie was so well received by everyone, ANYTHING that appears like criticism is seen as negative. I will admit that there is a bit of time we (seemly mostly me) had some comments about where the movie dropped the ball or would've preferred another scene. The majority of the episode does have positive comments about the movie. Someone would mention a scene he liked, than others would join in the love. No matter how great a movie is, there are always some things to nit-pick about. I think some of the criticism we're getting is more subjective because we did not just gush over the movie.
I cannot help but feel if we did a complete love-fest, comic circle jerk about the movie, we would have been blasted for overlooking the nit-pick stuff. I thought we were keeping a good conversation going (like we have done with any review; comic, TV show, movie, etc)
As for schooling us about things in the movie, I'm not too sure how we were set straight by some of the prior posts? I think the only real thing that came into question was who the Chitauri was. I have to admit, I've never been a big fan of the Ultimate universe (one of the reasons I'm not heading out to see the Amazing Spider-man.) You can tweak the origin timeline and details, but Steve Rogers still becomes Captain America. Introducing a character (or species), that is the same as a character in the 616 universe, BUT changing its appearance and name, can easily cause confusion. Until someone said the Chitauri is the same as the Skrulls from 616, I thought they were completely made up. There is nothing to clearly indicate they are one in the same.
I have no issues with the faceless soldiers of the Chitauri in the movie, but they could have easily been an Ultimate Universe species that clearly resembles its 616 counterpart. This would have enhanced the movie for me, rather than appear to be a completely made up alien race.
My questioning about Pepper's attire was more of an observation based on what we've seen in 2 prior movies. She was always seen dressed professionally. Now granted, she is dating Tony, but it just seemed different than what I expected a casually dressed Pepper to wear.
Her outfit was a quick visual shorthand showing how intimate and comfortable their relationship has become. The microseconds it takes to see what she's wearing and make the inference saves valuable minutes of screen time.
Plus she looked really cute!
AND with her shoes off Ms. Paltrow is slightly shorter than Mr. Downey.
I just came back from watching the movie which was Marvelous and it just occurred to me that the final scene with the close up of the fallen Stark logo with just the Avengers "A" did anyone else pick up that this might be the Avengers tower in the movie Marvel U too because when I saw that scene that's the first thought that went through my mind. If not am calling it that in Avengers 2 that will be the new Hq for the Avengers.
Just to mention, Clint Barton was called Hawkeye during the movie. It seems a lot of people must miss it because you guys arent the first Ive heard complain about that but Black Widow calls him Hawkeye during the final battle when shes on the flying sled thing and needs help.
I attended the Marvel Marathon at one of the local AMC theaters, along with the good folks from the Infinite Longbox podcast. Of the six movies shown, Thor, Captain America and The Avengers were all shown in 3-D. Though I had seen Thor and Captain America in the theater during their respective initial runs, this was the first time I had seen either of them in 3-D. I was underwhelmed by the 3-D employed by Thor and The Avengers, but Captain America was a different story. Was Captain America originally filmed in 3-D? Whatever the producers did differently, it was noticeably better, especially when sandwiched between two inferior examples.
The Avengers was amazing. Nuff said.
The Marathon was very well organized. No trailers were attached to any of the movies (even The Avengers was trailer-free). In lieu of trailers, Agent Coulson introduced each film (see the Iron Man example below). I have to give props to the theater. They let anyone wearing a Marvel Marathon badge bring food into the theater from the outside, which came in handy during our Starbucks and In & Out Burger runs. They also gave unlimited free refills on theater-bought popcorn and sodas. The theater only received enough swag for one theater showing, but the demand was so high, their corporate office added a second marathon venue. Both screens sold out. They ended up giving the special glasses and comics on a first come first serve basis, which left about half of the attendees in each theater empty handed. I got the Captain America style 3-D glasses, but The Avengers comic book they were giving away was long gone by the time we got there. That was really the only blemish on what was otherwise a very well organized presentation. Some of the theater staff came to work in costume, and between showings employees held an Avengers trivia contest with various paraphernalia (mostly toys) as prizes.
Matt said: "I've never been a big fan of the Ultimate universe (one of the reasons I'm not heading out to see the Amazing Spider-man) I know it's a little off topic, but I am wondering why you associate this movie with the Ultimate universe. I have been a Spidey fan most of my life. I have read into both universes and one of the reasons I'm excited about the new movie is that it has more original universe feel then before. I am just wanting to see what your opinion is.
Very glad I read Matt's post before hearing the episode as I was genuinely taken aback by how critical the first 25 minutes were. However the latter part of the episode seemed much more positive. I found myself nodding along when Jamie as berating everyone for not saying how great it was.
I guess for me it felt like you all went right into the criticising...I think if you listened to the first 25 mins you'd never believe that everyone present gave the film 5/5.
The marathon at the Regal Cinemas that I saw Avengers at (no marathon for me - if Avengers would have opened one week later, I would have marathoned, but I had an exam that day and finals to study for) didn't even include The Incredible Hulk. Which I don't get - geeks tend to be completists. You'd think they would try to appease that.
That would have been a studio thing. Hulk was released by Universal, not Paramount. So the package deal would have been through Paramount and Marvel studios.
I actually stopped listening to this episode because it was so negative. I know everyone has their opinion, but when Deemer started to get worked up and telling everyone their opinion was wrong I just turned it off. When I turned it off I thought the episode should've been called "Avengers - what wasn't in the movie Review." I know everyone wants everything to be perfect, but not liking a part of the movie because he doesn't quote a line from Aliens seems like a stretch.
Glad the guys ended up liking it, besides Jamie and Murd I was getting the feeling most of the geeks didn't like it much (like a 3/5 or so). I know the show doesn't have much of a format, just kind of organic conversation, but maybe for movie reviews at least try to do like overall opinions, then positives, then negatives? Just an idea. Still love the show though :)
Am I the only one who didn't even find the episode all that negative? I mean other than Deemer bitching about stuff, but he doesn't know what makes a good superhero movie anyway.
Maybe it's just me.
Actually, I think maybe part of the reason I didn't find it all that negative was because I initially heard it via the live stream of the podcast where Deemer wasn't coming through anyway.
I think for me it wasnt just the fact that it was a lot of negative conversation but it just seemed to be complaints about what wasnt in the movie instead of what was.
I didn't think the episode was overly negative. There were nitpicks, but you're going to get that with every movie that's released. When we get a movie like Avengers, something that a great number of us are very passionate about, there will always be things that we as viewers would have done differently.
I think for me it wasnt just the fact that it was a lot of negative conversation but it just seemed to be complaints about what wasnt in the movie instead of what was.
That's the nature of these type of reviews. All of us are so passionate about these characters that we know and love that it's natural that we have an entire movie already played out in our heads. I know it's not a perfect analogy because these movies really were flawed, but look at the Star Wars Prequels. Fans built up over so long what they wanted to see in the prequels that you can't have any discussion about the prequels, good or bad, without the topic of "what I would have done" getting mentioned. The Dark Knight was a great movie, but people still bring up the Joker make-up vs bleached skin and how they would have done it. It's fanboy nature.
Dont really agree there. Personally I think we as a group have got better and better over the years at realising that these movies are their own universes and that there will be differences between them and the comics so we shouldnt go in expecting things.
Matt said: "I've never been a big fan of the Ultimate universe (one of the reasons I'm not heading out to see the Amazing Spider-man) I know it's a little off topic, but I am wondering why you associate this movie with the Ultimate universe. I have been a Spidey fan most of my life. I have read into both universes and one of the reasons I'm excited about the new movie is that it has more original universe feel then before. I am just wanting to see what your opinion is.
The look, the promos talking about the untold origin, the stuff focus on his parents, Bendis being the consultant. Plus, seeing how they are focusing more on an EMO Peter instead of a geeky Peter, makes me uninterested.
I actually stopped listening to this episode because it was so negative. I know everyone has their opinion, but when Deemer started to get worked up and telling everyone their opinion was wrong I just turned it off. When I turned it off I thought the episode should've been called "Avengers - what wasn't in the movie Review." I know everyone wants everything to be perfect, but not liking a part of the movie because he doesn't quote a line from Aliens seems like a stretch.
Glad the guys ended up liking it, besides Jamie and Murd I was getting the feeling most of the geeks didn't like it much (like a 3/5 or so). I know the show doesn't have much of a format, just kind of organic conversation, but maybe for movie reviews at least try to do like overall opinions, then positives, then negatives? Just an idea. Still love the show though :)
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I never said I did not like the part, only mentioned I thought the set up was there for something else. Am I the only one who's seen or read a scene thinking it was going to go one way, but it went another?! I was not expecting a quote for ALIEN, just a quick comment that tied into that role for the actor.
I also never said see Pepper in cut off shorts and barefeet ruined the movie. I was merely commenting on something that seem out of the ordinary for the character. I'm a detective, it's my job to notice things that seem out of place from the norm.
I seem to recall listening to the review episodes of Shadowlands, than reading the threads and NOT seeing anyone say the guys were too negative on the storyline. The storyline was mostly criticized for what it wasn't. Could it be that most people did not like it, so hearing a review with negatives was acceptable? TO REITERATE...we all gave this movie 5 out of 5. Any of the scenes we discussed with criticism did not distract from the movie being kick ass. In fact, after we saw it, I texted 3 friends simply stating "The movie KICKED ASS!"
Ok, first off I loved The Avengers movie! I gave it a 20 out of 5 at one point I think. It is the best example of what you can do with a comic book movie. Building it up single character movie at a time until you get to the team movie. BOOM! Awesomeness!
DC does a great job with the animated stuff and while Batman and Superman movies are good.... Marvel does an outstanding job with their movies. Head and shoulders above DC. No doubt about it.
Now, my opinion, yes that is right folks, opinion.... was I would have liked the alien invading force to be something I knew from Marvel cosmic. My opinion. You don't like it, that is your opinion. What I don't understand is the argument I see saying well, if it would have been the Kree or Skrull you would have needed to spend time to explain them. Why? If if was something more familiar I sure did not want or need back story for them. All I would have liked would have the name mentioned by Loki or something. Like, " Kree army come forth and plunder the Earth." No one needed it for whatever the invading force was in the movie, why think you need it if you made the somethng more familiar. I truly couldn't understand Jamie or Adam's opinion that if it was Kree or Skrull we would need back story. That is their opinion. No harm no foul.
I look at the alien race thing the same way I look at the "Life Model Decoy" thing. If you're a longtime fan you got the reference, if you aren't a longtime fan you didn't. Did it change the move?? Of course not. Did it need to be explained?? Of course not. The same can be said for the alien race. It would have just been cool to say the word Skrull. the geeks get the reference and an extra smile on their faces while the non-geeks get an alien race. That's just my 2 cents.
Oh, and I FRERASKING LOOOOOOOOOOOVED THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I first listened to the podcast on the live stream, I agreed with Shane, but upon further review I'm going to have to change my mind. Here's my reasoning and I think this is what Jamie was trying to say (but it's not what Shane is saying was Jamie's argument so either Jamie didn't explain himself clearly or Shane didn't understand).
The Chytari (or however it's spelled) were a nameless, faceless alien army. And that is what they needed to be or the movie would get too cluttered. They were the Cobra troopers. We get to care about Cobra Commander and Destro and a few other baddies, but all the "cobra troops" are just there for the fight scenes. Shane's argument was that if they're going to be nameless, faceless soldiers, why not just call them skrulls, and on the surface that sounds like a good idea. But here's the problem (and I think it's what Jamie was trying to say, but if it's not, I don't care, because it's still what I'm trying to say). The Skrull are actually interesting. You can make a movie about the Skrulls and use the subterfuge aspect of them to make a much more interesting movie than you could with them as a nameless, faceless army. But if you use them as the army in this movie, then you've already blown your load and the Skrulls are off the table for something more interesting. I mean sure you could use them again, but the non-comic reading public would wonder why they didn't do any of that stuff in the first movie. Why are they interesting all of a sudden? Going back to the G.I. Joe analogy, let's say there was a G.I. Joe reboot and in the first movie there was a plot point that involved some nameless, faceless bad guy that gets killed. You could say "why didn't they just name that guy Destro as a nod to the fans? The guy was already Scottish, it would have worked" (in this scenario, Destro isn't in the movie) That would be a bad idea because Destro is a cool character and if you waste him as a nameless, faceless villain, you wasted a good character.
And of course, there's the rights aspect, but if we're planing our own fantasy Avengers movie, we can do whatever we want. But what I want is to save the Skrulls for when you can use them to their full potential.
Comments
I don't think Matt was nitpickey really. He was making observations to launch conversation.
I think we all did sound kinda negative but we had reached that point. Gushing for three days as nerds will do, you devolve into the murky bullshit of how anything could have been better to serve one's personal vision.
I was trying to point out the amazing writing, acting, etc. Deemer seemed opposite-thinking to my opinion which is normal.
I was enraptured by all the character moments.
My prediction: "The Dark Knight Legend Concludes" means Batman will be seen as the hero of Gotham, rather than the killing villain he appeared to be at the end of TDK. He'll be less like the creature of the night and more of a Caped Crusader (similar to the 70s/early 80s Batman)
M.
And WetRats, I'll take your word about how cute she looked. She doesn't really do anything for me.
M.
After listening to the episode, I have come to the belief that since this movie was so well received by everyone, ANYTHING that appears like criticism is seen as negative. I will admit that there is a bit of time we (seemly mostly me) had some comments about where the movie dropped the ball or would've preferred another scene. The majority of the episode does have positive comments about the movie. Someone would mention a scene he liked, than others would join in the love. No matter how great a movie is, there are always some things to nit-pick about. I think some of the criticism we're getting is more subjective because we did not just gush over the movie.
I cannot help but feel if we did a complete love-fest, comic circle jerk about the movie, we would have been blasted for overlooking the nit-pick stuff. I thought we were keeping a good conversation going (like we have done with any review; comic, TV show, movie, etc)
As for schooling us about things in the movie, I'm not too sure how we were set straight by some of the prior posts? I think the only real thing that came into question was who the Chitauri was. I have to admit, I've never been a big fan of the Ultimate universe (one of the reasons I'm not heading out to see the Amazing Spider-man.) You can tweak the origin timeline and details, but Steve Rogers still becomes Captain America. Introducing a character (or species), that is the same as a character in the 616 universe, BUT changing its appearance and name, can easily cause confusion. Until someone said the Chitauri is the same as the Skrulls from 616, I thought they were completely made up. There is nothing to clearly indicate they are one in the same.
I have no issues with the faceless soldiers of the Chitauri in the movie, but they could have easily been an Ultimate Universe species that clearly resembles its 616 counterpart. This would have enhanced the movie for me, rather than appear to be a completely made up alien race.
M.
The Avengers was amazing. Nuff said.
The Marathon was very well organized. No trailers were attached to any of the movies (even The Avengers was trailer-free). In lieu of trailers, Agent Coulson introduced each film (see the Iron Man example below). I have to give props to the theater. They let anyone wearing a Marvel Marathon badge bring food into the theater from the outside, which came in handy during our Starbucks and In & Out Burger runs. They also gave unlimited free refills on theater-bought popcorn and sodas. The theater only received enough swag for one theater showing, but the demand was so high, their corporate office added a second marathon venue. Both screens sold out. They ended up giving the special glasses and comics on a first come first serve basis, which left about half of the attendees in each theater empty handed. I got the Captain America style 3-D glasses, but The Avengers comic book they were giving away was long gone by the time we got there. That was really the only blemish on what was otherwise a very well organized presentation. Some of the theater staff came to work in costume, and between showings employees held an Avengers trivia contest with various paraphernalia (mostly toys) as prizes.
I know it's a little off topic, but I am wondering why you associate this movie with the Ultimate universe. I have been a Spidey fan most of my life. I have read into both universes and one of the reasons I'm excited about the new movie is that it has more original universe feel then before. I am just wanting to see what your opinion is.
I guess for me it felt like you all went right into the criticising...I think if you listened to the first 25 mins you'd never believe that everyone present gave the film 5/5.
Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinion.
I agree about pepper. Her dress showed how casual and intimate their relationship has become.
@fade2black amc knocked it out of the park with the marvel marathon. I was reading what they were planning months ago and they topped everyone.
Glad the guys ended up liking it, besides Jamie and Murd I was getting the feeling most of the geeks didn't like it much (like a 3/5 or so). I know the show doesn't have much of a format, just kind of organic conversation, but maybe for movie reviews at least try to do like overall opinions, then positives, then negatives? Just an idea. Still love the show though :)
Maybe it's just me.
Actually, I think maybe part of the reason I didn't find it all that negative was because I initially heard it via the live stream of the podcast where Deemer wasn't coming through anyway.
M.
M.
I also never said see Pepper in cut off shorts and barefeet ruined the movie. I was merely commenting on something that seem out of the ordinary for the character. I'm a detective, it's my job to notice things that seem out of place from the norm.
I seem to recall listening to the review episodes of Shadowlands, than reading the threads and NOT seeing anyone say the guys were too negative on the storyline. The storyline was mostly criticized for what it wasn't. Could it be that most people did not like it, so hearing a review with negatives was acceptable? TO REITERATE...we all gave this movie 5 out of 5. Any of the scenes we discussed with criticism did not distract from the movie being kick ass. In fact, after we saw it, I texted 3 friends simply stating "The movie KICKED ASS!"
M.
DC does a great job with the animated stuff and while Batman and Superman movies are good.... Marvel does an outstanding job with their movies. Head and shoulders above DC. No doubt about it.
Now, my opinion, yes that is right folks, opinion.... was I would have liked the alien invading force to be something I knew from Marvel cosmic. My opinion. You don't like it, that is your opinion. What I don't understand is the argument I see saying well, if it would have been the Kree or Skrull you would have needed to spend time to explain them. Why? If if was something more familiar I sure did not want or need back story for them. All I would have liked would have the name mentioned by Loki or something. Like, " Kree army come forth and plunder the Earth." No one needed it for whatever the invading force was in the movie, why think you need it if you made the somethng more familiar. I truly couldn't understand Jamie or Adam's opinion that if it was Kree or Skrull we would need back story. That is their opinion. No harm no foul.
Regardless, I loved the movie!
Oh, and I FRERASKING LOOOOOOOOOOOVED THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Chytari (or however it's spelled) were a nameless, faceless alien army. And that is what they needed to be or the movie would get too cluttered. They were the Cobra troopers. We get to care about Cobra Commander and Destro and a few other baddies, but all the "cobra troops" are just there for the fight scenes. Shane's argument was that if they're going to be nameless, faceless soldiers, why not just call them skrulls, and on the surface that sounds like a good idea. But here's the problem (and I think it's what Jamie was trying to say, but if it's not, I don't care, because it's still what I'm trying to say). The Skrull are actually interesting. You can make a movie about the Skrulls and use the subterfuge aspect of them to make a much more interesting movie than you could with them as a nameless, faceless army. But if you use them as the army in this movie, then you've already blown your load and the Skrulls are off the table for something more interesting. I mean sure you could use them again, but the non-comic reading public would wonder why they didn't do any of that stuff in the first movie. Why are they interesting all of a sudden? Going back to the G.I. Joe analogy, let's say there was a G.I. Joe reboot and in the first movie there was a plot point that involved some nameless, faceless bad guy that gets killed. You could say "why didn't they just name that guy Destro as a nod to the fans? The guy was already Scottish, it would have worked" (in this scenario, Destro isn't in the movie) That would be a bad idea because Destro is a cool character and if you waste him as a nameless, faceless villain, you wasted a good character.
And of course, there's the rights aspect, but if we're planing our own fantasy Avengers movie, we can do whatever we want. But what I want is to save the Skrulls for when you can use them to their full potential.