At this point if I were Dan Didio I'd bring Stephanie back, tout it as her triumphant return, bask in three months of fanboy adulation until the issue hits...
...and kill her off at the end of it. :) Using John Blake as the killer.
The resounding shockwave of reader hate should be able to feed an entire star system.
At this point if I were Dan Didio I'd bring Stephanie back, tout it as her triumphant return, bask in three months of fanboy adulation until the issue hits...
...and kill her off at the end of it. :) Using John Blake as the killer.
The resounding shockwave of reader hate should be able to feed an entire star system.
I like Stephanie and I would still love it if Didio did that.
Is anyone else tired of the comics adapting to the movies? I understand movies & TV shows cannot be exactly the same as the comics, but do the comics really have to mirror them?
Is anyone else tired of the comics adapting to the movies? I understand movies & TV shows cannot be exactly the same as the comics, but do the comics really have to mirror them?
M
Depends how it's done. In this instance, Blake is a cop so introducing a new cop to the GCPD roster who shares a name with a movie character isn't anything I have a problem with. Finding Nick Fury's long lost black son who is now known as Nick Fury Jr. and conveniently receives an eye injury so he has to wear a patch. That's a bit too much.
In this case its not a big deal but it is stupid and unnecessary. The only thing interesting about blake is his how he ended up in the DKR climax, and theyre not going to use that in the comics... so whats the point? Its basically just some guy.
It's not not stupid in the slightest. If you've got a character whose been introduced to comics readers in a major motion picture why not take advantage of the opportunity?
I think you both have good points. I also don't see the point of bringing this character into the comics. The movies are over and he's not going to be continuing on into the next round of Bat-films. So why bother? The opportunity has really passed; if they were going to milk the character for all his worth, they should have introduced him into the comics earlier, tie his appearance to synch with the release of the movie. A little late now.
On the other hand, there wasn't a huge point of bringing Renee Montoya into the comics from the Animated Batman show either -- she was only in a few episodes and didn't really make that much of an impact. Yet they still got a lot of traction off of the character in the books all the same. Who's to say they wouldn't be able to do the same with Blake?
Same way with Harley Quinn, the animated series is over but she turned out to be huge. Maybe John Blake actually makes it into the next iteration of Batman in the movies.
I think my problems with the movie v. a TV series is that a movie is more of a one shot, TV series isn't. The revision of Mr Freeze's origin, creation of Harley & Montoya, etc had time to get fleshed out. plus the motive to incorporate them into the comics was different.
Adding Blake, Nick Fury, Jr., black leather X-suits, etc are ways to right the coattails of the movies. I still think the number of new readers the books get following a movie are fewer than the companies want to admit.
It all comes down to how the characters and ideas get used. When it isn't good, then it feels like movie stuff shoved in, but when an idea that came from another media and gets used well, then why not? Part of the benefit of being the IP owner is that you get to keep a lot of the things that got figured out for other media.
The origin of Mr Freeze was "fleshed out" over the course of one 22 minute episode. I'll grant you Harley and Montoya though.
For me, it's not so much where the character came from as much as what they plan on doing with the character and how it works in it's own story. For example, if you never watched Batman TAS, Montoya would just seem like another cop they introduced who ended up being an interesting character. Same with (hopefully) if you somehow never saw TDKR. I imagine a whole bunch of WTF though if you somehow knew nothing about the Sam Jackson Nick Fury and came across Nick Fury Jr in the comics.
The origin of Mr Freeze was "fleshed out" over the course of one 22 minute episode. I'll grant you Harley and Montoya though.
I guess you're right about Freeze. I was taking into consideration the eps where he returned at different times to save Nora & eventually himself. Those wouldn't actually be apart of his origin.
I don't usually have a problem with the comics taking aspects of what the movies did. I hope when he does get introduced, it feels natural and not forced.
Whether or not you think it's necessary, cool to incorporate a character/characterization/look of a character from a movie, does if make a title worth picking up?
For example, if you weren't reading Avengers or SHIELD, would it entice you to read the titles because of the new look of Nick Fury (Jr.)?
I'll bet the fact that the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN had a cover and interior character design that looked like the Heath Ledger Joker (and came out not long after the movie) was an example of the movie making a difference-- that sold like hotcakes that year, in the direct market and book market. And I don't think people were gravitating to it just because it was a Joker book, or because it was from the team that brought you "Luthor: Man of Steel". The movie and that version of the Joker made a huge splash, and that book was selling more of that. And it sold.
I'll bet the fact that the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN had a cover and interior character design that looked like the Heath Ledger Joker (and came out not long after the movie) was an example of the movie making a difference-- that sold like hotcakes that year, in the direct market and book market. And I don't think people were gravitating to it just because it was a Joker book, or because it was from the team that brought you "Luthor: Man of Steel". The movie and that version of the Joker made a huge splash, and that book was selling more of that. And it sold.
i thought that character design was done before the movie. even if the book wasn't released until after the film the designe was still an original concept.
I'll bet the fact that the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN had a cover and interior character design that looked like the Heath Ledger Joker (and came out not long after the movie) was an example of the movie making a difference-- that sold like hotcakes that year, in the direct market and book market. And I don't think people were gravitating to it just because it was a Joker book, or because it was from the team that brought you "Luthor: Man of Steel". The movie and that version of the Joker made a huge splash, and that book was selling more of that. And it sold.
i thought that character design was done before the movie. even if the book wasn't released until after the film the designe was still an original concept.
I'm not sure I understand. Surely the look of the Heath Ledger Joker was designed long before the jacket design of this book was done (and, I would guess, the book was even painted). Maybe the look Bermejo chose was not influenced by the film, if he was working very independently. But I can't imagine the look of that cover, as well as the decision to greenlight a Joker OGN that Batman is barely in would have happened if there were not a Joker-centric Batman movie happening that summer.
And, more to the point of what I am trying to make, even if Bermejo didn't know that he was referencing the movie Joker, I think the movie Joker and the splash he made in the summer of 2008 was a real part of why that book was a success in November of 2008.
So, will we be seeming a revised Bane look? Hasn't Lucius Fox been appearing more in the comics & with a bigger role? I want to say I read that somewhere (just not in the actual comics.)
So, will we be seeming a revised Bane look? Hasn't Lucius Fox been appearing more in the comics & with a bigger role? I want to say I read that somewhere (just not in the actual comics.)
M
In the case of Bane, probably not. (Though Bane in the movie may influence how high profile Bane's return to the New 52 is... or is he there already? I'm not sure. But I don't think when he shows up he will look like the movie Bane.)
Mostly DC hasn't done that sort of thing with bringing the movie or video game designs to the regular comics. We didn't see the look of the Joker in the regular comics change. Nor have the comics taken on the "tumbler" look for the Batmobile or any other direct movie influences I can think of. So I doubt that Bane in the comics, who has spent so long being a different thing, will start looking like the movie. Just as they didn't start making Ra's look like Liam Neeson. Hellblazer comics didn't have to take on the look or feel of the Constantine movie (thankfully).
Usually they instead have separate properties that look like or share a title with movies or video games. The Joker OGN definitely looked like the movie, but that was a one-off. There have been comics to tie into the Batman games from Rocksteady, but those are their own thing. Ditto for the Smallville comics.
But adding a new supporting character like a John Blake is easier, because you don't have to throw anything or anyone out to do it. Ditto with having an established comics character like Lucius Fox simply show up more often. In those cases you get to potentially add interest from the movies without having to challenge the readership's attachment to the comics characters or character designs that are already there.
I hope the Tom Hardy Bane does influence the comics in the future. Bane has never interested me as a villain and always seemed more a one dimensional antagonist rather than a real character. I actually don't recall his official comics origin - was he from Latin America? From now on I think I'll be hearing Hardy's accent when reading. FYI: Kevin Smith does a good impression of Hardy!
Ive actually always liked Bane quite a bit, but they have short changed him severely over the years. Lots of wasted potential. I dont really care for Tom Hardys voice for bane but i never cared for the thick latino approach they used in the comics either.
There are endless nameless cops and henchmen in the comics. if they want to give one of them a name and some exposure, I dont care. theres plenty of room. Montoya and Bullock and harley were welcome additions and made sense expanding the supporting cast. The TV show had Chief O'hara. I just dont see this particular character all that "worthy" of the transition and If theyre trying to entice new movie fan readers, i think theyll be confused when this Blake is basically a nobody at the end of the day. New readers will be wanting and expecting something more from him.
Actually, Bullock was introduced in 1974, but point taken. I concur, unless we are to believe Blake will play the same role as in TDKR, they might as well use some of the other cops from TDK, along with Mayor Garcia & Deputy Commissioner Foley. Without the same role as in TDKR, Blake in the comics is useless. (NOTE: although I love TDKR, I'd never want to see it in the comics.)
I can honestly say, introducing Blake doesn't make me want to get back into reading Batman anymore than the other gimmicks since Sept 2006.
Is anyone else tired of the comics adapting to the movies? I understand movies & TV shows cannot be exactly the same as the comics, but do the comics really have to mirror them?
M
So here is one example of where I think Marvel got it right. They created an alternate, darker, more realistic universe on which to base their movies. That really worked. Reverse engineering these characters to exist in the comics doesn't really work for me because they first existed in a cinematic universe and simply don't feel comic-y. Having said all that, maybe a backup in Detective Comics that features John Blake working small cases on tips from bats could be kinda cool. As long as it doesn't feel shoe-horned in, I can get behind it..., hopefully it won't be something ridiculous like a new Azrael just to bring him into the bat family.
I hope the Tom Hardy Bane does influence the comics in the future. Bane has never interested me as a villain and always seemed more a one dimensional antagonist rather than a real character. I actually don't recall his official comics origin - was he from Latin America? From now on I think I'll be hearing Hardy's accent when reading.
Bane was from the fictional island nation of Santa Prisca, which, presumably, is a Latin American country.
I'll bet the fact that the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN had a cover and interior character design that looked like the Heath Ledger Joker (and came out not long after the movie) was an example of the movie making a difference-- that sold like hotcakes that year, in the direct market and book market. And I don't think people were gravitating to it just because it was a Joker book, or because it was from the team that brought you "Luthor: Man of Steel". The movie and that version of the Joker made a huge splash, and that book was selling more of that. And it sold.
i thought that character design was done before the movie. even if the book wasn't released until after the film the designe was still an original concept.
I'm not sure I understand. Surely the look of the Heath Ledger Joker was designed long before the jacket design of this book was done (and, I would guess, the book was even painted). Maybe the look Bermejo chose was not influenced by the film, if he was working very independently. But I can't imagine the look of that cover, as well as the decision to greenlight a Joker OGN that Batman is barely in would have happened if there were not a Joker-centric Batman movie happening that summer.
And, more to the point of what I am trying to make, even if Bermejo didn't know that he was referencing the movie Joker, I think the movie Joker and the splash he made in the summer of 2008 was a real part of why that book was a success in November of 2008.
Well, the Joker series got a green light because Azarello's Luthor series was so successful. My understanding, and I've been wrong before, was that Bermejo had this particular Joker design floating around since 2006, and it predates the movie quite a bit. That's all really. I was was pretty sure the ideas were developed independently and were just eeriely similar. I know I have thought to myself, "Self, you know what would be a great idea for a movie?". And before I can spit it out somebody else has done it. Sometimes ideas just have a ripeness to them and it is just a matter of who harvests them first. My point I guess is that I don't think Azarello's or Bermejo's work is derivative. That's all.
I'll bet the fact that the Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN had a cover and interior character design that looked like the Heath Ledger Joker (and came out not long after the movie) was an example of the movie making a difference-- that sold like hotcakes that year, in the direct market and book market. And I don't think people were gravitating to it just because it was a Joker book, or because it was from the team that brought you "Luthor: Man of Steel". The movie and that version of the Joker made a huge splash, and that book was selling more of that. And it sold.
i thought that character design was done before the movie. even if the book wasn't released until after the film the designe was still an original concept.
I'm not sure I understand. Surely the look of the Heath Ledger Joker was designed long before the jacket design of this book was done (and, I would guess, the book was even painted). Maybe the look Bermejo chose was not influenced by the film, if he was working very independently. But I can't imagine the look of that cover, as well as the decision to greenlight a Joker OGN that Batman is barely in would have happened if there were not a Joker-centric Batman movie happening that summer.
And, more to the point of what I am trying to make, even if Bermejo didn't know that he was referencing the movie Joker, I think the movie Joker and the splash he made in the summer of 2008 was a real part of why that book was a success in November of 2008.
Well, the Joker series got a green light because Azarello's Luthor series was so successful. My understanding, and I've been wrong before, was that Bermejo had this particular Joker design floating around since 2006, and it predates the movie quite a bit. That's all really. I was was pretty sure the ideas were developed independently and were just eeriely similar. I know I have thought to myself, "Self, you know what would be a great idea for a movie?". And before I can spit it out somebody else has done it. Sometimes ideas just have a ripeness to them and it is just a matter of who harvests them first. My point I guess is that I don't think Azarello's or Bermejo's work is derivative. That's all.
Well, even if Bermejo independently came up with that Joker look- and that is possible- I still think that the sales success of this book, which was considered surprising and impressive at the time, is owed in part to the effect that movie, and that movie's Joker, had. So perhaps DC lucked out that Bermejo already had something like this ready to go.
Movies may not sell comics as consistently as the publishers would like. But they can sell comics. And I think the success of that Joker OGN, especially in the book market, is one of those cases where the movie definitely helped, and there was a clear, visual link there: You thought that Joker was cool? Well HERE is more of him.
luckymustard
Posts: 927
Comments
...and kill her off at the end of it. :) Using John Blake as the killer.
The resounding shockwave of reader hate should be able to feed an entire star system.
M
On the other hand, there wasn't a huge point of bringing Renee Montoya into the comics from the Animated Batman show either -- she was only in a few episodes and didn't really make that much of an impact. Yet they still got a lot of traction off of the character in the books all the same. Who's to say they wouldn't be able to do the same with Blake?
Adding Blake, Nick Fury, Jr., black leather X-suits, etc are ways to right the coattails of the movies. I still think the number of new readers the books get following a movie are fewer than the companies want to admit.
M
Don't forget, some of what we now think of as essential parts of Superman (like the weakness to kryptonite) came from his radio series.
For me, it's not so much where the character came from as much as what they plan on doing with the character and how it works in it's own story. For example, if you never watched Batman TAS, Montoya would just seem like another cop they introduced who ended up being an interesting character. Same with (hopefully) if you somehow never saw TDKR. I imagine a whole bunch of WTF though if you somehow knew nothing about the Sam Jackson Nick Fury and came across Nick Fury Jr in the comics.
M
For example, if you weren't reading Avengers or SHIELD, would it entice you to read the titles because of the new look of Nick Fury (Jr.)?
M
And, more to the point of what I am trying to make, even if Bermejo didn't know that he was referencing the movie Joker, I think the movie Joker and the splash he made in the summer of 2008 was a real part of why that book was a success in November of 2008.
M
Mostly DC hasn't done that sort of thing with bringing the movie or video game designs to the regular comics. We didn't see the look of the Joker in the regular comics change. Nor have the comics taken on the "tumbler" look for the Batmobile or any other direct movie influences I can think of. So I doubt that Bane in the comics, who has spent so long being a different thing, will start looking like the movie. Just as they didn't start making Ra's look like Liam Neeson. Hellblazer comics didn't have to take on the look or feel of the Constantine movie (thankfully).
Usually they instead have separate properties that look like or share a title with movies or video games. The Joker OGN definitely looked like the movie, but that was a one-off. There have been comics to tie into the Batman games from Rocksteady, but those are their own thing. Ditto for the Smallville comics.
But adding a new supporting character like a John Blake is easier, because you don't have to throw anything or anyone out to do it. Ditto with having an established comics character like Lucius Fox simply show up more often. In those cases you get to potentially add interest from the movies without having to challenge the readership's attachment to the comics characters or character designs that are already there.
FYI: Kevin Smith does a good impression of Hardy!
There are endless nameless cops and henchmen in the comics. if they want to give one of them a name and some exposure, I dont care. theres plenty of room.
Montoya and Bullock and harley were welcome additions and made sense expanding the supporting cast. The TV show had Chief O'hara. I just dont see this particular character all that "worthy" of the transition and If theyre trying to entice new movie fan readers, i think theyll be confused when this Blake is basically a nobody at the end of the day. New readers will be wanting and expecting something more from him.
I can honestly say, introducing Blake doesn't make me want to get back into reading Batman anymore than the other gimmicks since Sept 2006.
M
Movies may not sell comics as consistently as the publishers would like. But they can sell comics. And I think the success of that Joker OGN, especially in the book market, is one of those cases where the movie definitely helped, and there was a clear, visual link there: You thought that Joker was cool? Well HERE is more of him.