Episode 1271 Talkback: DC's New 52: One Year Later
Pants
Posts: 567
It's been one year since DC relaunched their entire universe. What worked? What didn't work? What are some of our favorite books? In this episode we take a look back and give our thoughts on the last year of DC Comics. (1:29:50)
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It doesn't even seem like Hal Jordan is the same guy in Justice League. I get the five years earlier stuff..OK..but we are in present time now. He should act like he does in his solo title. Especially since both are written by the same guy!
Also, what was the name of the latest villain in JL? Anyone remember? I honestly don't. After months of reading about him shouldn't I at least remember that? He was so generic and had such crappy powers. Do you think anyone set down the first appearance of Dr. Doom and thought, "who was that guy again? Dr. Devious? Danger? Dementia?" No, I doubt it. JL villains need to pose BIG, earth shattering threats. We should have to wonder how the JL could possibly defeat them, etc..
I just feel like this is a book that sinking and sinking fast. I still enjoy reading it but I'm not sure how much longer that will last.
I haven't read issue 12 yet (I won't get it until next week), so at the point I've read up to a lot about his powers are still ambiguous, but I'm expecting an explanation or revelation come the end of the story. Or so I hope. I just assumed the details were lacking because they were being withheld until the story's end.
I started with Aquaman, Batman, Batwoman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Justice League, Grifter, Voodoo, Red Lanterns, Supergirl and Demon Knights. I checked out many of the other titles when the price dropped on the digital side. At one point I thought that for once I would be getting more DC than Marvel, something I had never done. It never happened though.
I am now down to Justice League, Earth 2, Worlds' Finest and Demon Knights in trades. I dropped most of the titles just because I was getting too many books but some were do to writing, art and/or characterization.
I may drop JL, I'm only sticking with it for the Shazam story now. This is an iconic team made up of iconic heroes the stories should be fun and exciting, but I'm underwhelmed and getting bored with it. This book should be the one stop shop for fun, action, excitement and adventure and it's not.
At the start of the New 52, I didn't have a problem with DC keeping some of the old continuity, but now, I wish they would have started from scratch across the board or not have done this at all. I don't think DC needed to relaunch the universe with 52 books all at once, I would not have even paced out that number of books. 52 books just seems too big of a number if you're building what is supposed to be a "new" universe. I don't get the sense of this being a new universe, I kind of fell like I was dropped into the middle of it and in some sense cases still having a sense of playing catch-up.
I'm also at a point in my comic reading where I am getting much more enjoyment from indy books and less and less from the Big 2.
Well, not Starro, Darkseid, Amazo, Prometheus or Despero...
That being said, I am excited for what is coming up from DC. I added Batman Inc. which is superb and also adding the Phantom Stranger and Team 7 to my pull list. I hope these books really "unify" the DC universe, the FCBD issue was great and excited for the crossover soon. Layman on Detective also is going to make me pull it, I read the first volume of Chew and it was great.
I may give Swamp Thing a look since I like Snyder's work. But I'm kind of meh on the whole thing right now.
Aquaman
Batman
Batgirl
Dark Knight
Deathstroke
Demon Knights
Flash
Firestorm
Green Arrow
Green Lantern
GL Corps
GL New guardians
Grifter
Hawkman
JL
JLI
Nightwing
Red Hood...Outlaws
Ressurection Man
Stormwatch
Superman
Teen Titans
thats 22 titles.
this month i have 6
Batman
Batgirl
Earth 2
Flash
Green Lantern
Nightwing.
Not a great percentage there.
I frequently wish things were done differently, but I have to admit that I don't really know how exactly they should go about it. And, clearly, a lot of these books are selling (including ones I don't like), so what the hell do I know? Obviously it's my mileage that varies here. And it's tricky - some books felt like they haven't changed at all (for instance, Aquaman... as much as I like it, there's little about it that couldn't have also happened in the old 52), and others feel like they have changed WAY too much just for the sake of change (Hawkman and, yes, Superman). There's probably a happy medium in there somewhere, but good luck zeroing in on it.
A lot of butt ugly costumes, though. The new Blue Devil coming down the pike looks to be the worst of the bunch by far, but I still hate hate HATE Superman's costume. For being just 2 main colors with one little yellow accent, it looks too busy with the excess lines, and worst of all, clunky in a way that it shouldn't. Not only is the idea of Superman in armor contrary to the very idea of Superman (even at the old "nothing less than a bursting shell" levels of invulnerability), but it looks like it slows him down. And I bet it's noisy, too, especially if he tries to sit. Worst of all, no one seems to be able to draw it with any sort of consistency.
Over the year, I've whittled it down to the following:
Action Comics
All-Star Western
Aquaman
Batman & Robin
Batman, Inc
Batwing
DC Universe Presents
Dial H
Earth Two
Flash
Frankenstein, Agent Of SHADE
G I Combat
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
Green Lantern: New Guardians
I, Vampire
Justice League
Justice League Dark
Legion Lost
Legion Of Super-Heroes
Red Lanterns
Stormwatch
Worlds' Finest
Plus I'll be getting the third wave:
Phantom Stranger
Sword Of Sorcery
Team 7
...and Batman Beyond Unlimited, the National Comics one-shots, Phantom Lady, and Joe Kubert Presents.
There have been a few titles I have dropped (Nightwing, Batman the Dark Knight) and I have also picked up several titles during the various waves. Overall I am enjoying them but maybe that is because I don't have much history with DC and all of this is so new to me. I did think a couple of titles took too long to get going Superman and Justice League.... Actually my favorite thing to read for the past couple of months has been the Shazam backup story I would love to see a regular title for that one.
Now that I am back in to comics I have started going to local shows and grabbing all of the dc I can find in the bargain bins. I now have about 6 long boxes of dc comics history I need to catch up on... I am currently reading 52 which I am really enjoying.
So in my particular case the relaunch did part of what it was trying to do which was attract new readers.
I don't get the belly aching. I'm LOVING Nightwing, Batgirl, Batman, Batman and Robin, Batwing, JL, Aquaman, and more. Marvel books are pretty, but not that many are great reading when I plunk down the funds to buy them.
The Guardian reporting:
Islamic Green Lantern introduced by DC Comics
First, residing the uk means we have to pay more for comics then you guys in the states (oh how I wish I could dcbs!), and with these tight times I really only want to read quality. Thankfully the new 52 is delivering that for me. I'm currently reading justice league, earth 2, swamp thing, animal man, resurrection man, worlds finest and am getting batman and demon knights in trade. Although I wish I could afford more!
Not having years of lost back story hanging over me I feel these stories are great, and dknt feel that lose that some of you are. Rot world has really pulled me in and I can't wait for the next batman trade. The new 52 came at a perfect time for me and has been delivering gripping stories monthly.
Now with the whole marvel now thing happening I thought about maybe getting into a few of these too. But no. Not gonna happen. I can only say double shipping has put me off completely.
Lastly. I'd like to thank you guys a cgs. You've really made getting into comics a delight. You're also something of a curse too, you make me want to buy so many more trades as well as issues! Keep up the good work.
Ps. Sorry for the poor construction of this post. Thoughts have just spilled from my mind.
M
Animal Man
Aquaman
Batman
Detective Comics
Earth 2
Flash
Green Arrow
Green Lantern
Justice League
Justice League Dark
Nightwing
Superman
Swamp Thing
World's Finest
plus I'll be getting Talon and Phantom Stranger in the 3rd wave and I'm getting Action, Batgirl, Supergirl (when it comes out) and Frankenstein in trade. BTW if you're not reading Frankenstein you are missing out! My only issue is that They waited too long for another big crossover. There are some threads that have a lot of potential but I guess they wanna let everyone establish their own stories first before they tie it all together. That's nice in theory, but it made things feel pretty slow for a lot of people.
I'm still getting most of what I started with: Aquaman, Batman, Batman and Robin, Batgirl, Justice League, Action, Dectective, Flash, Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, and most of the ones I'm not anymore ended: JLI, Hawk and Dove, Wonder Woman, and Swamp Thing. So my percentage is pretty good compared to others. My tastes must just be different than others, because I think books like Green Lantern are still great reads. I have been trying to drop some titles, and I was going to try GL, but every issue I read I close the back cover and think to myself "I HAVE to see what happens next!" But I know it is not Sinestro Corps for by any stretch.
I also agreed with Pants about the Flash's rogues and their powers all being internal now, and not via weapons, but man those double page splashes by Manapul are so creative, it's my favorite part of the book!
Granted, the Post-Crisis singular universe reboot was uneven and haphazard, particularly in regards to such characters as Hawkman, Donna Troy, and others but man, when it worked it really worked. Case I point: the Trinity of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. Think about how the Man of Steel miniseries, Batman: Year One, and George Perez’ first Wonder Woman story arc, Gods and Mortals, set up the origin, canon, and overall characterization of said characters. I would also include that magnificent two-part History of the DC Universe by Wolfman and Perez that I thought served very well as the bible of this, at the time, new Post-Crisis continuity. Now imagine if that same spirit and execution was used towards all the DC characters in this New 52 reboot, and yes that would include characters such as Wally West, Ted Kord, and Donna Troy. The omitance of those particular three characters who have established quite the well deserved place in the DC Universe is quite unfortunate.
I have to say, my first disappointed started with the first book, Justice League. Overall I like it but seriously, being the first JL book of New 52 reboot and the flagship book at that, would it have killed them to show all the Leaguers in the first issue. Geoff Johns could’ve dialed the decompressed story telling back just a little bit. Why set the story five years in the past? How about setting the first meeting of the JL in current time continuity and the rest of the books, including the JL solo titles, could be set one or two years before the first JL set up, and by either the end of the first story arc or first year of publication, it would match up to the current JL timeline. This would’ve been a great opportunity to set up the NEW foundation for ALL the characters (including Green Lantern minus carry over stuff from Pre-Flashpoint) of this New 52 continuity. Do they have an overall timeline bible like History of the DC Universe to make things more clear? They probably don’t. Why not? Maybe I’m just rambling here in trying to explain myself, mainly through comparisons to what once was, but it just seems like DC, led by DiDio, Johns, and Lee, just pulled this whole reboot out their ass.
In September and October of last year, I read about half the New 52 titles and liked some better than others but didn’t feel compelled to keep up the following months. The only DC titles I read every month are Justice League, which is starting to bore me, Wonder Woman, and Earth 2. I’m just not feeling this New 52, mainly because of the reasons I’ve already mentioned or tried to explain; they missed a golden opportunity to be more focused and execute this a whole lot better. I’m just going to say it. I don’t expect it to happen anytime soon but I'm waiting for someone to hit the backspace button and go back to the Pre-Flashpoint continuity.
Before I give more of a New 52 run-down, I thought it might be useful to say what titles I currently subscribe to from across all companies.
DC: Batman Inc, Batman, Wonder Woman, Batwoman, Silk Spectre ("buying" it for free when I get store credit)
Marvel: Uncanny X-Force, Wolverine & The X-Men, Daredevil, Fantastic Four (for one more issue, when Hickman leaves)
Independents: Prophet, Glory (in trades), Fashion Beast, Glamourpuss (just canceled)
As for the New 52 titles that I read with any frequency over the last year:
Action Comics: I only read this through issue 7 whenever I could get an issue for cheap or for free on store credit. I think some of the ideas were sort of interesting, but it was way too inconsistent. Morrison at his shallowest. Verdict: Underwhelming, but I might pick up the second collection a year or two from now if I can find it for cheap.
Batman Incorporated: And at the other end of the spectrum, here we have Morrison at his best. Really enjoying this. Really liking the Burnham art as well. Every issue is a tiny little masterpiece. You never know what's coming next but you know that Morrison is going to craft it very, very well. Verdict: Will buy until they stop producing it, and it will be top of the stack on any week in which Prophet isn't out as well.
Batman: I've enjoyed this but not to the extent that many others have. Still, I'm pleased to keep buying it for a good long time. Snyder can be wordy (boy does he like to tell longwinded anecdotes) but his stories are fun and carefully told. Capullo's stuff is just plain awesome to look at -- tickles all my '90s itches. The last four issues or so have been somewhat underwhelming, but I still look forward to this every month. Verdict: Buy for the foreseeable future; always expect a fairly pleasant read.
Flash: I decided to purchase this monthly through the first trade's-worth of issues, which turned out to be issues 1-8. It was okay and I don't regret my purchases, but the first half of those issues were markedly better than the second half. As the issues wore on the story seemed to get more decompressed and the art less... interesting. But I was never a big Flash fan, so I felt like reading a trade-sized run of the series, which I did, and I had an okay time. Verdict: Not interested in it anymore. Wish I had only bought the first four or five issues.
Frankenstein: I picked up the first trade and enjoyed it. The art was a little rough in places, but at other times I thought it fit the storyline. This is a neat title and one I'm glad that DC is taking a bit of a risk to publish. Verdict: I'll be very interested in the second trade, though I've heard that the quality has dipped a bit.
Animal Man: I read the first issue, which I liked well enough to pre-order the first trade, which I devoured and enjoyed VERY much. Then I started buying this in issues. And from issue 8-11 or whatever the story seemed to go NOWHERE. The title seemed to be spinning its wheels until the crossover could happen in the fall. And it didn't help that Pugh seems a less interesting artist than Foreman, imo. Verdict: I dropped this a month ago, but am still interested in buying the next issues in trade IF I hear that Rotworld is a marked improvement from the preceding six issues or so. The FIRST trade was amazing.
Swamp Thing: Similar to the case with Animal Man, I liked the first trade but then had to endure 4-5 plodding issues that made me regret jumping on to read the series monthly. There was some nice artwork, but I wish that Pacquette could do more. In general, the "ROT" stuff got old fast, and it doesn't encourage me to know that there's still SO much of it to go through. I appreciate Snyder's writing here, even though at times it seems a touch too nostalgic and reverential to the past -- particularly to the MOOD (if not the storytelling) of the Moore run. Verdict: I'm interested in reading this series in trade, but maybe I better wait till Rotworld is over with.
Wonder Woman: Probably my favorite series from the first wave of 52 titles. I've only read WW comics here and there, but this current take seems fresh and interesting to me. I love how the Greek gods are used here, and how they're often rendered in unusual ways. Azzarello is at times too "punny", but I am enjoying the overall story so much that I can forgive him for the odd bad joke. I've heard longtime WW fans complain about certain aspects of the origin and characterization, but for my part nothing really offends me here. Chiang's art is fantastic; I wish he could do every issue, but the fill-ins aren't too bad. Verdict: Great, solid series. I look forward to his every month and will be buying it indefinitely.
Batwoman: Argh. At times this book can be so good. At times it can be so bad. For the first five issues, I liked it the MOST out of all the New 52. Then the second arc happened, and the art got quite horrible once JH left pencilling duties... but... the writing... the writing suddenly got even worse than the art. The promise of JH returning to double-duty made me stick it out for six months, and the latest issue is just fantastic, a real return to form. Verdict: I really like the characters and story, but whenever JH leaves the art duties, the writing seems to suffer as well. I want to keep reading but there's a good chance I'll leave Kate & co. the next time JH stops drawing them.
OVERALL: I'd call the New 52 a success. It's true that most of us are pointing to books that we AREN'T reading for whatever reason, but I think that the true test is to think back to what we were reading before the relaunch. I was only reading Morrison and Snyder's respective Batbooks. Now I'm reading those two books plus a handful of others. And over the course of the year I've sampled quite a few series and bought some trades. I'd call that a success. Especially when I think about it in conjunction with how my interest in Marvel titles has waned over the past year. At the moment, the Marvel NOW! announcements have yet to thrill me, and two of my four Marvel subscriptions will be ending soon with nothing to replace them. So even though I grew up as more of a Marvel kid, DC just interests me more now.
What is your like of prophet? Give me a reason to read it