Damian Wayne........ back already. Kinda. Sorta.
Planeis
Posts: 980
Dead Robin returns in elseworld-ish miniseries
I'm sure he'll be alive in the main books within 18 months.
I'm sure he'll be alive in the main books within 18 months.
Planeis
Posts: 980
Comments
(Of course, first I would need to call the NY Post "news")
To be honest, I read that statement as actually saying, "Honoring Morrison is all well and good... but I don't want them to."
As far as weirdest time, Morrison left the Bat universe now and they killed Damian. Weird was not a great word to use but it still felt unnecessary and I was disappointed. Why remove that piece now when he was such a critical part? .
>:)
M
M
M
:-w
Besides, I don't think readers actually get confused by multiple versions of the same character. Especially when it comes to characters like a Batman or Superman that even a non-comic reading person gets have had multiple versions across a variety of media in their own lifetime.
In a time when an average moviegoer is familiar with the term "reboot", I don't think confusion from alternate versions of a character are really a concern.
I have been reading comics all of my life, since about 1973. I am well-versed in DC lore, continuity, movies, Elseworlds, etc. all the way up to, oh about the 52/countdown series'. I have not read a lot of the New 52 stuff, and just reading press releases and seeing covers confuses the hell out of me.
Imagine what Joe Shmoe, who just saw Dark Knight Rises, thinks when he finally goes into the comics store. Accessible? I don't think so. It's not even accessible to me. I understand, and even enjoy, the different versions "across a variety of media", but have no clue as to the current relationships of Batman, Nighwing, Damien, Robin, Red Robin, Red Hood, BatGirl, BatWoman, etc.
And, make no mistake, accessibility was the top of the list of objectives at the New52 launch.
I'm betting the majority of sale increases are from already-readers picking up a different title then never-befores.
M
Personally, I think the way to find out what the relationships between the characters are in the New 52 is to watch them have those relationships. We will know, say, what Batman thinks about Batwoman by watching them have a scene together. To me, not knowing before I buy the book exactly what I can expect is not a barrier to entry. It is rather fodder for the story that I am about to read. Others may want something different, and that is fair.
But I think whether or not something is accessible to the hypothetical "new reader" is a hard thing for any of us to judge. It depends on the reader. Heck, I jumped cold into Uncanny X-Men in 1986. A little more than halfway into Claremont's 19 year original run. The amount of relationships, plots, subplots (including many dangling ones) was enormous. And this was without the Internet to help me out. And it absolutely hooked me. What I didn't know yet was a big part of what got me on board. I read to find out more. That happens, too.
And the best way for a reader, new or longtime, to know whether the story is bringing them in (call that accessible if you want) is if it works for them when they read it. If the main way you are judging the work is by their press releases and covers, then really your problem is with their marketing people?
Anyway, I think el nuevo fiffty-dos lost me as a returning reader, because it didn't seem like characters were consistent in their own book, let alone crossbooks. I found myself asking, "why is Clark a jerk? Why do Lois and Clark seemingly hate each other? Why is Lex Luthor in prison and for what? Did this happen in Action Comics? Where?"
With the Justice League starting "5 years ago" and then moving into the future I felt that, emotionally, we were all left with "oh... so their friends now? but theirs tension? After 5 years? from what? Is there really tension or am I imagining that?"
Other books I tried to read like Batwoman or Batgirl or Red Hood and the Outlaws, I just didn't get it.
But when the subject at hand is specifically accessibility, that is what this conversation has been mostly about, then are we really talking about returning readers?
I could be thinking of the accessibility question differently, but I took that to mean new readers. That, if what some people are criticizing DC for is that a main objective of the New 52 was to make it accessible, then I thought by that they mean for hypothetical new people coming it, whether via print or digital, to give the work a try.
Do we really imagine that such people would read Teen Titans #1, meet a character called Red Robin, who under the mask is a guy called Tim Drake, and be pushed away by not knowing whether or not he was a protege of Batman? I understand where that was a confusing or frustrating issue to existing or returning readers, but would it really have affected the accessibility for someone who doesn't have a prior investment in one of Batman's mid-90s to mid-00s Robin? Maybe they will just think, okay, he's Red Robin, and find out more about him as the story goes along, just as they will about the rest of the team.
I feel like some of the questions that you wanted an answer to right away might not have been ones that a new reader, who may just take the characters to be who they are as they meet them, would have.
It feels like some of the need for definition and answers to the questions you pose is not as much about the storytelling in the first few issues as it is an impatience for finding out how much the New 52 resembles the old DCU. And that question: What It Is vs. What I Know or Expect From Before doesn't feel to me like an accessibility issue.
It's like the first arc of Justice League. The opening title says "Five Years Ago" and the first scenes are Batman and Green Lantern meeting for the first time and not getting along. 'Is there tension five years from now or are they friends?' Well, probably. The book is called Justice League and "Five years ago" implies there is a Justice League to read about in the "present". But how did they get along? Well, THAT'S the story to be told. You know what I mean? Maybe some readers get interested to read and find out.