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Episode 1411 Talkback: Spotlight on Doctor Who Part Two

We conclude our spotlight on Doctor Who in this 50th Anniversary year as we discuss 'The Wilderness Years', the 1996 Fox TV Movie, the relaunch in 2005, and some speculation on the upcoming anniversary episode. We are joined once again by our friends Dani O'Brien, Eamonn Clarke, and Dave and Angela Williams. Geronimo! (2:27:06)

Listen here.

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    John_SteedJohn_Steed Posts: 2,087
    Speculation - the geek ambrosia.
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    CalibanCaliban Posts: 1,358
    I like Dave's point that here in the UK we are genetically predetermined to be afraid of Daleks.

    At the Doctor Who Experience in Cardiff (which I can highly recommend) they have the front half of a Dalek so that kids can stand in the back and operate the controls.

    When I was there I paused to let a mother take a picture of her young son in there. Once the photo was taken I walked past the front of the Dalek at about the same time that the lad must have worked out the controls so that the sucker suddenly shot out and grabbed my elbow.
    His mother was terribly apologetic but I assured her that it was actually great fun, for a moment I had been genuinely terrified.
    :)
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    GargoyleGargoyle Posts: 199
    There was a moment at the recent Dalek Invasion event that we went to where a sucker got a little out of control and ended up getting to 2nd base with Ang. I don't know who was more petrified, Ang or the driver of the Dalek who had me glaring at him!
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    on the tardis being able or not to "fly"...

    in Time Flight (5th Doctor era) The Tardis hovers over the prehistoric earth , like a helicopter would. The Doctor thinks an Airline Pilot friend of Tegan's was responsible for the maneuver, and congratulates the Captain for such an extraordinary feat by a human being.
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    I personally liked the David Tenant exit where he went around visiting his past companions. Like Dani said, I took it as he had time to reflect for this regeneration before it happened, and he knew he would miss this version of himself. That's how I took it. He didn't want to regenerate again, so this version of him wanted to say goodbye in a way.
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    Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    Thanks for the episodes! You guys were great and I enjoyed every minute of the discussion. Time for Pants to start a Doctor Who CGS spinoff podcast!
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    CalibanCaliban Posts: 1,358
    Another thing about the Tenth's exit: although it was Eccleston, Piper and Davies who made Doctor Who cool again, it was Tennant and Davies who made it the runaway smash hit for the BBC, so they were probably allowed (and owed) a certain amount of indulgence.
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    rebisrebis Posts: 1,820
    I have to make a confession. I don't watch new episodes of Dr. Who on BBC America. I find a torrent of the BBC broadcast and watch Who that way. BBC America will cut episodes to make them fit within the US's commercial restraints. Every once in a while something gets cut that shouldn't have.
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    rebisrebis Posts: 1,820
    I've listened to a good bit of Big Finish audio books. Colin Baker's stories are very good. Making his companion an elderly woman who is a college professor is brilliant.
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    RTD is self-indulgent? Yeah, that's fair. But if so, then Moffat is self-important. RTD's companions found themselves in situations that forced them to be great, but Moffat's all seem to just be born frustratingly special, and oh-so-important to the universe and the Doctor's entire existence, which gets old. I've liked the Ponds and River and Clara, but I'm also really burnt out on them all by now (yes, even Clara).

    And as I'm sure I've said before, I take issue with Moffat's assertions that the show "has always been about the companions." Yes, their roles have expanded greatly from the days where all they did was scream, trip, and ask "What are you doing, Doctor?" Yes, they're important in terms of audience identification and helping provide opportunity for exposition. Yes, by giving them more to do you've expanded the range of plot possibility and add in the wrinkle that the Doctor doesn't always do what's right, and he needs someone to hold him back and sometimes even save him from himself. But the show is called Doctor Who, not Amy and Her Imaginary Friend, and the more it becomes the latter, the more it moves away from the show I know and love.

    And I do love the new series, even if at the moment our relationship feels a little more abusive than I would like... it brought the show to a new audience and unimagined heights of popularity over here (no matter how uncool it was to like Doctor Who at one point or another in the UK, it was deeply uncool to like it over here and man, did I ever hear about that in grade school), and even my wife watches it now and she hated the original, so I'm thankful for all of that. As Justice League is to Shane, Doctor Who is to me, and I'll stick through even the worst of it because I'm that committed (or committable, it could be argued).
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    As for other topics:

    The TV Movie - I really liked it at the time, but I was just so happy to get new Who on TV at that point I'd have been happy with about anything. I don't think it's great now, but I still don't really hate it. I mostly just wish McGann had been given more of an "official" shot at Doctorhood, and as a result he's (maybe weirdly) the past Doctor I most hope they surprise us with in the 50th as a result.

    The Novels - I was always curious about the Virgin Publishing New Adventures, but they were coming out in late high school and college so I never had the time to keep up with them, and the fact that they started off with two four-book cycles was off-putting to me. By the time I did catch up to them, I didn't like that they took the 7th Doctor from cosmic chessmaster to manipulative prick who'd destroy Ace's worldview because it was Tuesday. I liked what I read of the 8th Doctor books from BBC a lot better, though the many protracted storylines got kind of old (Faction Paradox was pretty cool, though). What little I've encountered of the Past Doctor Adventures from both Virgin and BBC were fun, too.

    Big Finish - I've only really started listening to these in the past few years... back when they were CD-only, they were too expensive to keep up with. Now that they offer downloads (and are quick to offer decent sales on those), it's been fun to catch up. And as everyone says, these are the best things to ever happen to the 6th Doctor. He has gotten to develop his character way, way more than he ever could on TV (I blame both John Nathan-Turner and Eric "Drop a Mercenary in There" Saward for that), and his broad, booming delivery really gets to stretch itself in the theater of the mind.

    Flying TARDIS - It didn't happen often in the original run (mostly because the model shots always looked super dodgy), but I remember instances of seeing the TARDIS flying around outside of the vortex in Real Space. An especially dodgy spinning model shot in The Keeper of Traken comes to mind.

    Dalek Scariness - When I was in London in 1999, there was a bunch of Who stuff on display at the Museum of the Moving Image. They had a cutaway Dalek like the one @Caliban mentioned, and there was a little boy who was playing in it who had clearly been born in the years after the show's cancellation, and his mom kept saying "No, sweetie, you're supposed to say 'Exterminate' and, you know, be much scarier than you're being right now." :))
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    Oh, and since I never got to favorite companions in the first episode's thread:

    Classic series - Sarah Jane Smith, Jamie McCrimmon, Romana (both of her), Ace, and the Brigadier (because he totally counts)

    New series - Donna Noble, Rory Williams, Captain Jack Harkness, and if they count, the Vastra/Jenny/Strax trio (though I worry that they're starting to get overused).
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    ShaneKellyShaneKelly Posts: 156
    rebis said:

    I've listened to a good bit of Big Finish audio books. Colin Baker's stories are very good. Making his companion an elderly woman who is a college professor is brilliant.

    Agreed, the one where they first meet is a favorite I listen to over and over.
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    rebisrebis Posts: 1,820

    rebis said:

    I've listened to a good bit of Big Finish audio books. Colin Baker's stories are very good. Making his companion an elderly woman who is a college professor is brilliant.

    Agreed, the one where they first meet is a favorite I listen to over and over.
    That is sooooo good! And, it's kind of a throw back to what Who was intended to be. Meeting and interacting with historical figures.

    So so good!
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    I've only heard one 6 & Evelyn story so far, but I really liked the way they play off one another and I'm looking forward to hearing more.

    And thanks to whomever it was that pointed out (Ang, maybe?) that the first 50 releases were reduced in price... $2.99 a pop is a great deal. I downloaded Loups Garoux (5 and Turlough; haven't listened yet), The One Doctor (6 and Melanie... I was skeptical, but it's really good so far, almost like later-era JNT done properly!), and Storm Warning (the first 8th Doctor adventure they released, which was pretty good). Looking to get Sword of Orion (8 vs the Cybermen!) next.

    So yes, I thank you, but my wallet... not so much!
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    Bought Sirens of Time and Blood of the Daleks at the weekend...now I'm frustrated because I'm not allowed to listen to them without Ang and Lucas in the car with me!
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    Incidentally, Loups Garoux is confusing and, worse still, boring. I'm astonished that it makes so many "Best of Big Finish" lists.
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    fredzillafredzilla Posts: 2,131
    My first episode of Doctor Who was either, "The Fires of Pompeii" or "Planet of the Ood." I remember seeing older episodes on PBS when I was younger, but I thought the show looked too hokey for my young tastes. I was hooked with Tennant's acting style. I've slowly converted my family into Who fans. In fact, my wife asked just the other day, "When is the new Doctor Who airing?" :D I never got to Eccleston's run and so I decided to rectify that. My son is sitting here next to me excited for each new episode. Great couple of episodes, guys (and gal). My thanks!
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    I am horribly behind... I am sorry. I am so, so sorry.

    I must be the ONLY person on the planet who thinks that Donna was the BIGGEST "Mary Sue" character outside of 70's Star Trek fanfic ever. Never liked her, never liked how powerful she was, and she is easily the companion I don't want to ever see again.
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    alienalalienal Posts: 508
    I didn't intend to listen to this episode (I'm not a Dr. Who fan at all), but since my iTunes is on continuous play and it was in the queue I just let it go. I do like you all's enthusiasm toward Dr. Who. I don't know if I'd ever get into it, but since you all like it so much, the possibility remains.
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    I am horribly behind... I am sorry. I am so, so sorry.

    I must be the ONLY person on the planet who thinks that Donna was the BIGGEST "Mary Sue" character outside of 70's Star Trek fanfic ever. Never liked her, never liked how powerful she was, and she is easily the companion I don't want to ever see again.

    Disagree! Donna always seemed the most human and frail (even in the end, after her transformation) of the companions. I remember multiple episodes where she seemed completely overwhelmed by the universe the Doctor inhabited. Also, the platonic friendship she and the doctor had was the best companion relationship in the series because it was completely devoid of angst, they were just having fun.

    However, if we were talking about another redheaded companion's "Mary Sue"-ness I feel like your statement would exactly describe my feelings about her.
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    random73random73 Posts: 2,318

    I am horribly behind... I am sorry. I am so, so sorry.

    I must be the ONLY person on the planet who thinks that Donna was the BIGGEST "Mary Sue" character outside of 70's Star Trek fanfic ever. Never liked her, never liked how powerful she was, and she is easily the companion I don't want to ever see again.

    Disagree! Donna always seemed the most human and frail (even in the end, after her transformation) of the companions. I remember multiple episodes where she seemed completely overwhelmed by the universe the Doctor inhabited. Also, the platonic friendship she and the doctor had was the best companion relationship in the series because it was completely devoid of angst, they were just having fun.

    However, if we were talking about another redheaded companion's "Mary Sue"-ness I feel like your statement would exactly describe my feelings about her.
    Interesting. I have at different time agreed with both of you. The first time I watched a Donna episode I couldn't stand her. On a second viewing (I started over with Eccleston and are working all the way through New Who) I found her delightful. Removing the Rose romance and Martha's constant pining was a relief. These are now some if my favorite episodes. The were mates on holiday and that was good. Good for the Doctor and good for us. I even like the Doctor-Donna.
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