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Old Circulation Numbers
AxelBrass
Posts: 245
I am getting together the Micronauts series in worn out old reader copies for my personal enjoyment when I read the circulation page.
Micronauts - Vol 1 - Filing Date October 1, 1980.
10 - C - Total Paid Circulation - 163,891
That would be an insane number today for what was, essentially, a niche book.
Anyone else reading any old stuff with any circulation numbers you want to post?
Micronauts - Vol 1 - Filing Date October 1, 1980.
10 - C - Total Paid Circulation - 163,891
That would be an insane number today for what was, essentially, a niche book.
Anyone else reading any old stuff with any circulation numbers you want to post?
Comments
Circulation of 163,891 doesn't seem outrageous for the times. Micronauts was a popular book and moved respectably well. The licensed properties (Micronauts, Star Wars, Barbie, and eventually GI Joe) made Marvel a fair chunk of cash (maybe not so much for Godzilla, Starriors, and Shogun Warriors). I would like to see the numbers for GI Joe #1. If I remember correctly it was the first comic book advertised on TV.
Here's the resource I use for old circulation numbers. It's also important to remember that they were not as meticulous as the statements of ownership implied...and more than one comics creator from the 70's has states that those numbers were made up by a copy editor at the last minute...
Still, Micronauts was a HUGE hit for Marvel at the time, especially after the monster sales of Star Wars.
Yeah, I always love searching for those numbers whenever I'm reading old Marvel back issues.
A week or so ago I was reading an issue of John Byrne's She-Hulk that had circulation numbers in the back. Over the data there was an ad for the then-new TPB collecting the first issues of Byrne's run which showed Shulkie saying something like "The offer STILL stands, fanboys. Buy my TPB or I'll go to your house and rip up all your X-Men issues." She-Hulk was a very low-selling title at the time and needed all the help it could get.
The circulation was something like 60,000. That would make John Byrne's She-Hulk Marvel's SECOND BEST-SELLING REGULAR TITLE TODAY (based on Sept 2014 numbers, only Amazing Spider-Man has higher numbers). This was a series that, in the early '90s as I remember it, was chided as being a very low seller.
Digital is different, and the number on that are rising at a HUGE rate, especially on books that don’t sell to the average com shop fan (male, over 25), especially when I hear that the new Ms. Marvel sells better in digital than in print.
Marvel’s “Cancel line” has stayed around 20,- 25,000 for the last 10 – 15 years, I think it’s more that the upper books don’t stay there very long. The comics market has become a mile wide and a foot or so deep, IMHO, due to the prices. People still want to read ‘em, but they aren’t growing their budget.
okay so, back to the point. you mention the modern TP market. Those are the numbers I'm talking about affecting the industry as a whole. I don't know if the bottom fell out of the midline superhero market because people were waiting for the trade of if they were just buying trades of other things.
I also don't know why you are putting "waiting for the trade" in quotes. I get the impression it is an imaginary thing you don't really believe exists like "military Intellegence".
The idea that the monthly comics buyer would switch over to buying Blue Beetle or Nova in trades instead of monthlies never quite materialized. That is why I use the example of the mid-line super-hero book. If there were people who had migrated from monthlies to trades, they would sell better than the 2500 average that ICV2 usually reports when they list sales estimates. 15 years ago, a midline books sold around 60,000, now they sell around 35,000, but sales on those books hasn’t budged.
Now, the books that sell over time are a few series with broad appeal or strong creator ownership, like Walking Dead, do well in trades, or series that are “limited run” and can be collected in a finite series of trades do well. But, IMHO, the monthly comic that goes on and on like Thor or Superman? People will buy it as a monthly, a small number will pick them up in trades and they will eventually go out of print. DC’s pre-New 52 books in print is tiny at this point, and that includes books with “big name” creators or books that had an impact of the DCU at the time.
I also look at the policies of the Big Two publishers, and they treat trades and hardcovers of most of their line as if they are periodicals as well, a single printing, little warehouse storage of things over time, etc… Marvel has effectively ended their Essential line, and you’ll see that while the early ones are abundant and still available, the later ones (Warlock, Captain Marvel V2, etc…) sold out within a couple of months of being printed and are now going for silly money.
So that I don’t go too far down the rabbit trail (we talk about sales and such a LOT on my podcast since my co-host and I have over 50 years combined experience in comics retail), the idea that trades cut into the sales of monthlies just doesn’t fly with me. The idea that rather than buying X-Factor, people waited for the trade just never materialized in numbers that made up for the sales drop.
So, IMHO, “Waiting for the trade” people who used to buy periodicals was an audience so small so as not to be worthwhile to chase. Trade buyers are different from monthly comics buyers.
And, to go to one of your points, Brian Vaughn’s Y The Last Man or Ex Machina sold well as trades (but just to throw a wrench in, Ex Machina is out of print according to Amazon.,..) but my opinion is that the people who bought the trades are a lot like the people who bought Sandman in trades: They wouldn’t have bought the monthlies. I believe they are two different audiences.
I’d also like to put the disclaimer that I am a “wait for the trade” guy. I prefer to read current comics in story chunks, and love the feel of a trade. Besides, I can read it on the exercise bike better than a stock of “floppies”.
Of course, my own preference would be that every year, Dc and Marvel put out a Essential/Showcase style book for each of their series. I’d be on that like Oprah on a canned ham.
http://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/itemcount.html
http://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/marketshares.html
The line about Ms. Marvel selling better in digital than in print is total hearsay based on something that Rich Johnston thinks he overheard at a drunken industry party, from Marvel people anxious to brag to him. I want it to be true, but until I see actual numbers, I don't believe it.
Note also that Ms. Marvel is basically the only title that Marvel still publishes that isn't $3.99 with a free digital code. So the absence of free digital codes that way probably helps it get more digital sales.
Of course all the free and $0.99 discounted digital copies of old issues sell a ton. I'm not debating whether or not digital comics make money for the big two; they obviously do.
Also keep in mind that whenever someone redeems a free code from a $3.99 Marvel issue, various tallying systems most likely count that as a digital copy that someone paid for, another "sold" digital copy, even though it came from a print sale. To me that's evidence that digital sales aren't really much of a factor. If Marvel was letting the "cancel line" drop to 10,000-15,000 copies in print sales, then we could reasonably say "Looks like digital sales are making up for that." But instead the line has stayed pretty much the same.
The line about Ms. Marvel selling better in digital than in print is total hearsay based on something that Rich Johnston thinks he overheard at a drunken industry party, from Marvel people anxious to brag to him. I want it to be true, but until I see actual numbers, I don't believe it. It could be true, but people are taking it as gospel.
All I'm saying is that a lot of the same sources who have taken this anecdote and run with it are the same types who, 5-10 years ago, were saying things like "By 2010 all digital comics will be 99 cents each on the day of release." I'm just saying that there are clearly a LOT of people who want every single "pro-digital" idea to be true, when the actual evidence is scant.
Note also that Ms. Marvel is basically the only title that Marvel still publishes that isn't $3.99 with a free digital code. So the absence of free digital codes that way probably helps it get more digital sales. Because if the book were $3.99 with a free digital code, that would cannibalize the sales from all the people who logically think "I may as well just buy the physical copy if I get a free digital copy anyway."
Also keep in mind that whenever someone redeems a free code from a $3.99 Marvel issue, various tallying systems most likely count that as a digital copy that someone paid for, another "sold" digital copy, even though it came from a print sale.
Of course all the free and $0.99 discounted digital copies of old issues sell a ton. I'm not debating whether or not digital comics make money for the big two; they obviously do. To me that's blindingly obvious evidence that digital sales aren't really much of a factor. If Marvel was letting the "cancel line" drop to 10,000-15,000 copies in print sales, then we could reasonably say "Looks like digital sales are making up for that." But instead the line has stayed pretty much the same.
For quite a few years now Marvel's cancellation line has been 20,000 and DC's has been more like 10,000. These lines have held steady despite the supposed digital revolution that has invisibly been happening with all these untracked sales of day-and-date comic releases.
...I just don't see it.
No offense if you or anyone sees things differently.
For quite a few years now Marvel's cancellation line has been 20,000 and DC's has been more like 10,000. These lines have held steady despite the supposed digital revolution that has invisibly been happening with all these untracked sales of day-and-date comic releases.
...I just don't see it.
No offense if you or anyone sees things differently.
This year digital supposedly made 15% of total comic sales, a number that rises every year, but on a book selling 20,000 is still only 3,000 copies. The margin on them is probably better since there's no print production involved, but let's say that even if 3,000 digital is worth 4,000 print (totally arbitrary), that's enough to save a borderline book, not nearly enough to save a failing book. There are always enough failing books that I don't think we've seen a truly borderline book be in trouble. I think at the current rate of growth we'll see digital start to make an impact in 2-3 years, but not any sooner.
We don’t have any individual data on digital sales, other than what has been reported in a few articles:
http://blog.comichron.com/2013/06/digital-comics-40-million-downloads-year.html
I agree that digital sales aren’t a factor to keep a book in print at Marvel. Trade sales don’t do that either, or Runaways would still be on the stands. Its trade sales were so good that Marvel repackaged the series at least 4 times, and yet it still went away because it wasn’t enough to keep the book going. Vertigo USED to have the ability to keep a series going if trade sales kept it afloat, but after Karen Berger left, and more of Vertigo was folded under the auspices of DC proper, those days are gone as far as I can tell.
I do, however, think that the “wait for the trade folks” are going to migrate over to Marvel Unlimited. I know I have, and the books I am not going to buy in nice hardcover formats and I just want to read, I’ll be reading there. I freely admit I am an early adopter, and I do NOT have the collector mentality any more. Comics, like TV and movies, are now a consumable medium for me…and it reminds me of when I was a kid in the 70’s, when people would give me their Marvel comics after they read them because they were disposable entertainment.
Also, look back on what I said: Digital is rising at a huge rate. NOT that it is replacing comics. ICV2.com (which I can’t link to because I can’t get to the site here at work) has this chart:
2009 - $1,000,000
2010 - $8,000,000
2011 - $25,000,000
2012 - $70,000,000
2013 - $90,000,000
That’s not redeeming digital codes, that’s the estimate of dollars generated by digital sales, which is a different metric. I see HUGE growth from when DC started their digital program, but we also saw over 20% growth from 2012 to 2013. Marvel in particular is monetizing its backstock by having the monthly service, and they promote it outside the comics market at places by SXSW and other tech based venues.
Is that replacing print comics? No, but it is HUGE dollar growth. Not number of downloads, that’s dollars. And it’s $90 million that wasn’t coming into the industry five years ago, since the dollars spent in comics shops is up, year over year. Do I think that it will keep a comic in print? No, but I do strongly think it will open new markets and bring in new readers outside the 20 – 30 male demo.