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Episode 1518 Talkback - Off the Racks: The Phantom #1, Thor #1, and Trinity of Sin #1
Adam_Murdough
Posts: 506
It's that special time of the month when we Geeks 'rack' our brains to bring you candid, detailed, SPOILER-heavy reviews of three recently published single issues. This month's subjects: DC's Trinity of Sin #1, Marvel's Thor #1 (introducing the new, female Thor), and The Phantom #1 from Hermes Press. (1:17:42)
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https://archive.org/details/BatGirl-unairedPilot
As for Odin's absence from Asgard, if I'm remembering correctly, following Fear Itself, he exiled himself in order to tend to his brother, the Serpent. They had been living together in some, I don't know, remote astral plane or something or other, holed up in a cabin in the woods playing checkers together. Loki retrieved him following his and Thor's dust-up with Angela and the folks from Heaven.
As for Thor's mother, she is indeed Gaea. In actual mythology, Thor's mother is Jord, the Norse Earth Goddess, and point of fact that when the story of his birth was told in THOR ANNUAL (first series) #11 Gaea appeared in the guise of Jord when Odin approached her.
Unrelated to this issue specifically, Freyja's presence has been something of a minor burr in my shoe since she appeared as an "All-Mother." Until now, Odin's wife has been Frigga (even in the movies), but it seems that Aaron has either replaced her or made her interchangeable with Freyja despite them both appearing as distinct individuals previously. Although I freely admit that things may be different following the Asgardians' resurrections by Thor following the latest cycle of Ragnarök. It's been shown in other cases that Amora the Enchantress was an incarnation of Freyja and/or Idunn in one other cycle. So ultimately, who knows. :D
But then Pax Americana came out.
I don't know how many times they can go back to the well, but the fact that the September 2011 Nu52 reboot resulted in the highest sales in decades has probably not been lost on DC. It is a business after all. An oft-times miserable one at that...
That said, moving onto Thor, I agree with everyone's assessment. I think @ShaneKelly is correct in his response, and I also believe this should have been a "zero" issue. We can probably all agree that Jason Aaron is the man. FWIW, I think @TheOriginalGMan has made a good case for his theory on who the new female Thor is. I think the red herring is that it could be Freyja.
As for the Phantom, I never really got into that character and it also doesn't help that Dynamite is simultaneously printing new #1's of some of those King characters, including the Phantom. I don't know why I never got hooked, but it reminds me of my lack of fondness for Prince Valiant or Doc Savage. Just never got into them.
Thanks for the Batgirl pilot link @i_am_scifi! I've been wanting to see that since forever. Would have loved to see it in high-resolution though. Would have also loved to have Adam West's commentary tracks on this box set... Imagine having the lead actor demonstrating such clever foresight to have produced hours of material specifically for such a project and in the end it has to be sold separately. I really wish Warner Bros would have worked out something with Reed Kaplan and Wally Wingert. This could have been a truly special product.
I didn't read Trinity of Sin, but I can comment on the Phantom Stranger series Murd brought up in the episode. The Phantom Stranger solo series started off great. Didio and DeMatteis put on him Earth and made him try to life a normal life surrounded by a family and loved ones when he wasn't acting as the stranger, but we find out something about how he got this alter ego that leaves the reader questioning whether it's right or wrong (I won't spoil it). I think the series, and most of the supernatural books from DC, then took a dip in quality with the Blight crossover and never recovered.
I loved the first issue of the Phantom too, and I couldn't figure out who the blonde hair character at the end was. Does anyone know? Is it another Kings property?
Oh, and one day I WILL Muddle that Murd. I just need to stay away from T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents questions...
Too bad I had to be right, though, since on the surface a Phantom Stranger and Question (and that pink lady and special guest Dr. Thirteen) team-up book should at least be interesting (no matter the versions of the characters). While I may not have loved everything I've read from DeMatteis, I still think his track record is good enough that if he can't wring something readable out of this, then it's a pretty tough order.
I missed out on ordering the Phantom book from Hermes, but you guys have me curious about it now. I'll have to look for a physical copy, though, as it's not (yet?) available digitally (I still read mostly physical comics, but digital is awesome for impulse buys when you want to check something out NOW), The Phantom was one of only two adventure strips my local paper used to run (along with Mark Trail, and yeah, that's really stretching the definition of adventure), so I read it a lot as a kid and thought he was a pretty cool character (though as we only got the B&W daily strips, it was years before I knew his costume was purple; I assumed it was red, and a friend of mine thought it was orange!). Comics-wise I've read a few of the Gold Key & Charlton books, some of the DC ones from the 80s, and a great 3-issue mini Marvel put out in the 90s. I also enjoyed seeing him team-up with Flash and Mandrake in the Defenders of the Earth cartoon, and yeah, the movie was a lot better than its box office numbers would indicate (that stupid "SLAM EVIL!" tagline did it no favors at all). So I guess what I'm saying is I'm probably a bigger Phantom fan than I think and I was kind of dumb for not getting this, especially since it sounds kind of interesting.
See? I'm not always right! :D
I'm not as high on Dauterman as some, but I enjoyed him on Cyclops (underrated series, btw) and his art continues to be good here.
The story is okay. Honestly I would say that Aaron is one of the top five Big Two writers, no question, but I find him very uneven and I think his Thor work is much the same--only his Thor run varies from "great" to "okay" whereas all his other Marvel work has varied from "good" to "bad". He'll have an "up" storyarc, then a "down" one, then an "okay" one, time and again. All his Marvel stuff has been this way for me. He'll do one very good Wolverine storyline, then the next storyline in the same run will be borderline awful and forgettable. Half of Wolverine & The X-Men was quite wonderful and charming; the other half was unremarkable and trying way too hard be funny. I own both Omnibuses; I like him overall, but his defining quality to me is his lack of consistency.
I'm glad that other people seem to like his Thor run, because I like it overall as well, but it totally befuddles me when people give it blanket praise, as if it were anywhere near seamless quality from arc to arc. The "Godbutcher" storyline, which ran in the first 11 issues, is so clearly, notably, exponentially better than anything else he has done on the title. It's basically his best Marvel storyline ever by a mile, and was reviewed as such. I don't know of anyone who read it and didn't think it was at least a 4.5-star work, minimum. So, even people who liked the following Malekith and Roxxon stories (I thought they were mediocre/"okay") should still be able to notice how much better the first 11-12 issues were. It's like, how can you not notice the change in quality? The bulk of the Malekith issues dealt with Thor teaming up with a band of utterly forgettable creatures. And the Ribic art in the Roxxon storyarc pales in comparison to the Godbutcher issues (by this point, he was probably, understandably rushed). I don't have a problem with people digging certain comics more than me (again, I thought Thor from #12 onward has still been okay/kinda good), but it just strikes me as very strange that the clear difference between the first epic 11 issues and everything else is not noted. Yes art and writing are subjective to a great extent, but the superiority of the "Godbutcher" arc compared to what followed is basically as borderline-objective as you can possibly get. Not noting the disparity in quality is like suggesting that Claremont's entire X-Men run is as good as the Byrne stuff. So I'm just like "Why are people not pointing out how the Godbutcher stuff was miles ahead of everything else?"
As for female "Thor" (if that is her real name), I haven't read the second issue but I would think it'd have to be one of Thor's granddaughters from the future, as seen in the Godbutcher arc. Probably it will be the granddaughter who had the most spunk and tried to lift Thor's hammer to fight Gorr. She was basically the only female character in the entire series that Aaron seemed able to make somewhat interesting so far, imo. That, and Marvel writers now seem pathologically incapable of writing a storyline that isn't suffused with time-travel and reality-bending. So probably Freyja went into the future and brought her back.
Lastly, Murd, if you think the image on the last page of #1 is sexist, I don't know what to say to you. Explain how this is exploiting the female form or whatever. There is no cleavage. Her breasts are not large. Her hips are hidden under bulky leather and cloth. There is no sideview. It's a straight-on shot with no alluring gaze or come-hither expression. The lips are just blank and expressionless, not particularly "pouty" or heart-shaped. The image clearly references the headshot on the cover (so was the cover sexist too???). The "coveredness" of the new Thor, along with her black eyes and lack of emotion/personality so far, is obviously meant to build intrigue over the mystery of who she is. Apparently in issue #2 (which I haven't read yet) we are already getting inside her head via thought bubbles, so no this isn't any sort of ongoing "women don't have personalities" sexism either. I respect you and I know you're on a "find the sexism!" kick which CAN yield interesting results sometimes. But jeesh I honestly can't imagine how the image could be less sexist. "Staring ahead at the reader" is sexist?? If you see sexism in this image, then I also see a lot of snarks and grumpkins hiding in it too. Sorry, man, but... no.
That being said, I picked up Daredevil and Silver Surfer #1's that came out 10 months or so ago, and was hooked immediately with no prior exposure to them. I think re-launching with a #1 for the sake of relaunching is a poor excuse, and in the case of Thor #1, there should have been a lead in issue, or half an issue to give a re-cap for new readers.
There was really only one cardinal rule regarding the Stranger: you don’t reveal his name or past. He was an unknown; a mystery; an enigma; a stranger. DiDio broke that rule right off the bat and destroyed the one really cool aspect of the character. I read the first few issues and gave up in disgust. I just didn't care anymore.
Just one more critical failure amid the wreckage of the New52.
To the episode - thank you for doing your part, especially with those titles that I don't pick up. This was one where I only picked up Thor. But hearing the others, even the criticisms, still piqued interest in possibly picking up trades or such. I even include the Phantom Stranger in that - just to see how it leads to Trinity of Sin.
that he is Judas, but never outright said. Admittedly as the series went on, more is revealed so that his identity as Judas cannot be argued. However, DC, for whatever reason, is careful never to use the name Judas. Philip Stark was a name given to an alter ego he uses, but it's not his real name. He took it from a man who was about to kill his whole family, took the man's place, and went on living in the man's life.
What I liked about the series, which I guess I didn't make clear in my original post, were the issues that followed the Stranger living as this man and how his existence affects others in the DC Universe.
And, yeah, that's my opinion... for whatever it's worth.
Trinity of Sin #1: PANTS! Yeah, I was just bored as Chris was while I was reading it and didn't care about any of the characters...except when Dr. Thirteen died. That was unexpected...
Thor #1: BORROW! Liked the Malekith and Frost Giants' appearance but (I agree with Shane again!) I wanted MORE of the new Thor! She only gets the cover and 1 page in the back? Arrrgh! ...but I must add that I'm getting at least a few more issues of this title.
Muddle-the-Murd: Good job, Murd! First question right off the bat!
I actually read all three of these issues. Here were my brief thoughts on them:
Trinity of Sin - Borrow - I have been reading Phantom Stranger and Pandora all along, so for me, this was a lot of continuation of what was going on in those titles. For someone new to the title, I agree that this was not a good jumping on point or introduction to these characters. It would have almost been better to do a zero issue that gave a different perspective of their origins to then lead into this issue. But, for me, I still liked it, though not great.
The Phantom - Borrow - I also had never read a Phantom comic before (and only exposure was the movie and the episode Matt did). I bought this solely because I was curious on the character and I loved Peter David on other titles. By the end of the issue, I loved the art, but found the writing not the typical great quality that I expect from Peter David. I loved the first few pages of origin (but agree with Adam that I would have liked some origin of THIS Phantom). The witty banter of dialogue that is a hallmark of Peter David seemed a bit too contemporary for the time period this story was taking place in and that took me out. Plus, I echo the "not much happened" sentiment.
Thor - Buy - I echo that I have loved everything by Jason Aaron that I have read (I have not had the opportunity to read Scalped yet). I read this before finishing Original Sin, and this just made me want to go back and finish reading that. The art was beautiful and really helped tell the story. I was shocked when Thor had his arm removed, just as you guys were. I have read the second issue, and like Chris, I am even more intrigued.
I am so looking forward to Jason Aaron on Star Wars!!
I say this because I remember as a kid, I would just grab an issue off the racks because the cover looked interesting. I had no idea what I was in store for. I didn't know if I was going to be in the middle of a story arc or even who the characters were sometimes. The cover was enough to grab me to buy the issue. Many times I would find that I liked the story and then would seek out the issues before it to get the full story, but also many times I knew enough from that one issue to not have any problem in following what was happening.
I'm very curious if someone can still do that today or if you have to really pick a "jumping on point." I think it could be an interesting experiment.