I thought it was really good. I wasn't going in on anyone's team because I could see the PoV of both sides. But by the end I was definitely on Cap's side especially when Tony lost it and basically was on the verge of becoming a villain.
We had the introduction to great new characters I thought both Spider-Man and Panther where very good. Obviously we got a lot more screen time with Panther and we needed to because everyone knows who Spider-Man is.
I thought the giant superhero square off was awesome and seeing Ant-Man become Giant-Man was the best. And the fighting in general was great again just like in Winter Soldier you could really feel the impact of the punches.
I was happy that in the end Black Widow had Steve's back. The development of both Wanda and Vision was good there clearly setting up there relationship.
And the villain Zemo was OK he had a good plan but I feel the villain was lacking yet again in these movies. And Crossbones was a giant disappointment since they kill him in the first 10 minutes.
I understand it wasn't really about the villain in this movie but when your villains overall in your movies aren't great another lackluster one stands out.
But what is cool is what starts the registration in this movie is similar to how it starts in the comics.
And the final fight with Cap and Bucky vs Iron Man was really good. I definitely think Tony came off the one looking bad. He would've killed Steve to Murder Bucky a guy who was mind controlled into killing his parents.
But in the very end it seems like there is light left and when of course Thanos comes they will work together to try and stop him.
I need to see it more but right now I'd give it 8/10 maybe 8.5/10. Don't want to say it's better the Winter Soldier yet. Need a couple more viewings.
I am amazed that they managed to have what should have been WAY TOO MANY characters, and yet at the same time also made it still a Cap movie rather than just an Avengers movie under a Cap name. And it was tight, and smart. I was expecting it to be good, as I have enjoyed the Cap movies the most of all the Marvel movies so far, but I will admit I was worried about this one. I thought it was going to be too crowded with characters and become a flash and cash. But, to me, they absolutely pulled it off.
Also, and I suppose this is a compliment to how good it was, I found myself thinking this a number of times during the movie, "I wish Jamie could see this."
@David_D Loved that even with so many characters the all where juggled wonderfully. they where all introduced in a well paced manner, all had a reason for being their and all had a bow out. amazingly well handled
QUESTION! the beginning of the movie the control phrase word most used on Bucky is "Homecoming". do you think its a coincidence or will this paly into SPider-mans solo movie
The plot, at least early on, feels like it originally had a different POV and in rewrites it lost cohesion in its POV.
At first the schism between the Avengers feels like they were trying to go for an allegory of UN Intervention vs. US Adventurism. But that is almost immediately undermined by having the ultimate parody of the out of control US military intervention, Thunderbolt Ross, as the UN representative.
He feels like he's a relic of a draft where the Avengers were put under US government/military control, and the Hulk was involved somehow. As much as I like seeing William Hurt, I don't know if he needed to be here.
Then after we establish the argument of the UN Avengers would be slow to react vs. an independent Avengers would rush in and endanger lives, each side proceeds to act in the way that they accused the other of acting.
Again, here is where the UN Avengers being a US Government/Military Avengers would make the allegory a lot better, the assumption "Bucky did it" based on flimsy evidence and then later Ross giving Stark a ludicrous deadline to get results works much better as an allegory of the US reactions than it does the UN.
But it has to be the UN so we can introduce the Black Panther.
Thankfully by the end the movie itself has forgotten all about that and it becomes much more personal between Steve, Bucky and Tony. Which is where the film is at its best.
It's an enjoyable movie, but it doesn't hold up as well under scrutiny as Winter Soldier did.
Look its like this. To think that two movies that come out within weeks of each other that have two heroes fighting and not be compared is not ripe for comparison is to me folly. That said. Warner's should take some notes or try to steal the Russo Brothers to be their Kevin Feige but seeing how they are locked up til 2020 that will probably not happen.
I'll start with what I DIDN'T like about the movie. The airport scene over shadowed the final fight. I think people were still buzzing over it as the final act played out. The swerve of not getting Baron Zemo and his Master's of Evil was a bit disappointing. I was looking for a super-soldier battle. So now that I know this is was what the finale was I think I will appreciate it more on many repeated viewings. Oh course Cap won!
And that's what I didn't like.
I don't know even where to start with the rest of the movie.
Best super hero fight scene EVER at the airport. Tony meeting Peter. Hot Aunt May and Tony recognizing that fact. GIANT-MAN! So glad I didn't spoiled on that. Not so much the Black Panther but Chadwick Boseman killed T'Challa. @wildpigcomics I still have to listen to that episode!
I figured that Bucky had something to do with Tony parents death because it was raised as a possible plot point before the movie was made. So it's nice they went with it.
The movie did not filled overstuffed. Nothing was wasted. I look forward to seeing it again soon.
Also, and I suppose this is a compliment to how good it was, I found myself thinking this a number of times during the movie, "I wish Jamie could see this."
(F**k cancer.)
Since I saw the first trailer, I thought the injustice with this movie (regardless of being good or bad) is that Jamie D isn't here to see it.
I am amazed that they managed to have what should have been WAY TOO MANY characters, and yet at the same time also made it still a Cap movie rather than just an Avengers movie under a Cap name. And it was tight, and smart. I was expecting it to be good, as I have enjoyed the Cap movies the most of all the Marvel movies so far, but I will admit I was worried about this one. I thought it was going to be too crowded with characters and become a flash and cash. But, to me, they absolutely pulled it off.
This was my greatest compliment of the movie as well. EVERY single character had a reason to be there. Not one of them felt shoehorned into the film (even Spidey, who was obviously shoehorned in at the least moment) and it made sense which side of the conflict they were on. Every character had a small story arc and had their moment to shine. I was amazed that each hero had their moment in the sun, yet this still felt like Cap's (and Bucky's) movie. I can't believe the Russo's pulled it off so well.
I too was happy to see Black Widow switch sides and help out Cap. At the beginning, even my wife said that didn't fit with her character to side with Tony.
It was a damn good movie. The only two things that would have made it better for me would have been if Zemo wore his pink mask, and if Everett K. Ross had more wisecracks. Hope he gets a bigger role in the up coming Black Panther flick.
Taking the kids to see it this weekend. It will be interesting to see their reactions. Ant-man has been a favourite of theirs, so Giant Man will blow their minds.
Any thoughts on how this ended up? With Cap and his rag-tag crew on the lamb at the end of the film? Secret Avengers? I'm so curious to see how the cinematic universe handles their status and how this plays out over the next couple of films.
GIANT MAN!!! Best Spider-Man movie yet imho. Glad to see Natasha get some good action sequences, wanted more of Agent 13, but a slow burn on her I imagine. Vision in a V neck sweater!! Loved it! I saw in Imax 3D, and although I usually loathe 3D, it was more than tolerable. Want to see it again!
...it was beautiful. I mean, just amazing. I wish the arguments for and against was done this well in the comics. Everyone in the movie had such a good part to play in this and it ended in such a satisfying manner and yet they are splintered. It was so good. Tom Holland as Spider-Man was awesome and yet still felt a bit like Michaelangelo from TMNT. Paul Rudd was good too but Black Panther! GEEZ, he was so good and his costume was outstanding and his fight scenes were so fluid and smooth! I can't believe that Steve only finds out now about Sharon's connection to Peggy but it was a cool reveal. Very happy about Rhodey. I was nervous. I wonder how long the Raft had been around for by the time we see it in this movie. Oh and Vision and Wanda were so cute together. Loved everything about this movie. So good!
I couldn't help but laugh during the funeral scene. As soon as it dawns on Steve that Sharon is related to Peggy all I could hear was, "Oh Peggy, give it to me Peggy!" Thanks for that Drunk Cap.
I loved it. Only one complaint... This is the first Marvel movie where I thought 'there's too much shitty CGI going on here'. Particularly in the first hour. Some of the chase scenes looked totally fake and that brought me out of it a bit. That's only a minor complaint. On the whole thoroughly enjoyed.
Panther was great. Spidey was awesome. Giant Man great. And I still want a Black Widow solo movie.
This movie jumped all over the place. Cutting from one set of characters to another - back and forth with giant words on the screen to tell us where we were now....and it worked. Despite the large cast and many locations I thought the editing was good and I never felt like my head was spinning (unlike another "superhero" movie that will go unnamed).
I also liked how the movie trusted it's audience. There was no flashback of Rumlow getting hurt. No need for a Spider-Man origin. No explanation of the blue-blood. etc...
In another post I said how I chuckled at the funeral scene but truth be told I felt my eyeballs begin to sweat when Steve got the text about Peggy.
Loved the Vision and Scarlet Witch scenes. I'm not sure if they mean as much to non comic fans but I liked them.
The highlight was the airport scene. That fight was the most "comic-booky" moment I've ever had in a Marvel movie yet. Seeing Spider-Man fight The Falcon? Giant Man? C'mon, who could of guessed you'd ever see that in a movie?
I was critical of the idea of introducing Spider-Man into this movie. I didn't even like his intro in that one trailer. However, they did a great job with him in this movie and I ended up liking this kid quite a bit. The Spider-Man banter was top notch.
I wish Spidey hadn't been in the trailer. It would've been even better if his appearance was unexpected. Imagine the cheers in the cinema seeing him for the first time. But then maybe the talk would've all been about Spidey rather then the movie. Hmmm... I'm not sure how I feel now......
It's getting great reviews, even from Vanity Fair, who apparently thought the worst thing about the movie, according to VF’s Joanna Robinson, is that Captain America and Bucky are NOT, in fact, gay.
So while Marvel was likely never going to make the homoerotic subtext of Cap and Bucky into text, would it really have hurt to keep their relationship more ambiguous? As if to put the nail in the coffin of speculation, Bucky and Cap paused for a moment in the middle of snowy Siberia to reminisce about their days chasing skirts in pre-War Brooklyn. It’s a sweet, human bonding moment but one that also bristles with heterosexual virility. If Disney isn’t inclined to give audiences a gay superhero, couldn’t they have at least left us the dream of Bucky and Cap?
It's getting great reviews, even from Vanity Fair, who apparently thought the worst thing about the movie, according to VF’s Joanna Robinson, is that Captain America and Bucky are NOT, in fact, gay.
So while Marvel was likely never going to make the homoerotic subtext of Cap and Bucky into text, would it really have hurt to keep their relationship more ambiguous? As if to put the nail in the coffin of speculation, Bucky and Cap paused for a moment in the middle of snowy Siberia to reminisce about their days chasing skirts in pre-War Brooklyn. It’s a sweet, human bonding moment but one that also bristles with heterosexual virility. If Disney isn’t inclined to give audiences a gay superhero, couldn’t they have at least left us the dream of Bucky and Cap?
Not making this stuff up...
So, any time 2 guys who have grown up together like brothers, they must be gay?
Look, @Adam_Murdough will always be my longest, closest friend, who I see as a brother...but I have ZERO attraction to the guy. No offense to Adam, it's just how I feel.
+++++ SPOILER ALERT: CAP & BUCKY ARE NOT LOVERS. +++++
It's just fun to post ridiculousness sometimes. Shame this sort of silliness is being given a modicum of legitimacy in an otherwise 'reputable' publication, but let's get back to discussing Civil War.
David_D
Posts: 3,881
Comments
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I thought it was really good. I wasn't going in on anyone's team because I could see the PoV of both sides. But by the end I was definitely on Cap's side especially when Tony lost it and basically was on the verge of becoming a villain.
We had the introduction to great new characters I thought both Spider-Man and Panther where very good. Obviously we got a lot more screen time with Panther and we needed to because everyone knows who Spider-Man is.
I thought the giant superhero square off was awesome and seeing Ant-Man become Giant-Man was the best. And the fighting in general was great again just like in Winter Soldier you could really feel the impact of the punches.
I was happy that in the end Black Widow had Steve's back. The development of both Wanda and Vision was good there clearly setting up there relationship.
And the villain Zemo was OK he had a good plan but I feel the villain was lacking yet again in these movies. And Crossbones was a giant disappointment since they kill him in the first 10 minutes.
I understand it wasn't really about the villain in this movie but when your villains overall in your movies aren't great another lackluster one stands out.
But what is cool is what starts the registration in this movie is similar to how it starts in the comics.
And the final fight with Cap and Bucky vs Iron Man was really good. I definitely think Tony came off the one looking bad. He would've killed Steve to Murder Bucky a guy who was mind controlled into killing his parents.
But in the very end it seems like there is light left and when of course Thanos comes they will work together to try and stop him.
I need to see it more but right now I'd give it 8/10 maybe 8.5/10. Don't want to say it's better the Winter Soldier yet. Need a couple more viewings.
(F**k cancer.)
QUESTION! the beginning of the movie the control phrase word most used on Bucky is "Homecoming". do you think its a coincidence or will this paly into SPider-mans solo movie
At first the schism between the Avengers feels like they were trying to go for an allegory of UN Intervention vs. US Adventurism. But that is almost immediately undermined by having the ultimate parody of the out of control US military intervention, Thunderbolt Ross, as the UN representative.
He feels like he's a relic of a draft where the Avengers were put under US government/military control, and the Hulk was involved somehow. As much as I like seeing William Hurt, I don't know if he needed to be here.
Then after we establish the argument of the UN Avengers would be slow to react vs. an independent Avengers would rush in and endanger lives, each side proceeds to act in the way that they accused the other of acting.
Again, here is where the UN Avengers being a US Government/Military Avengers would make the allegory a lot better, the assumption "Bucky did it" based on flimsy evidence and then later Ross giving Stark a ludicrous deadline to get results works much better as an allegory of the US reactions than it does the UN.
But it has to be the UN so we can introduce the Black Panther.
Thankfully by the end the movie itself has forgotten all about that and it becomes much more personal between Steve, Bucky and Tony. Which is where the film is at its best.
It's an enjoyable movie, but it doesn't hold up as well under scrutiny as Winter Soldier did.
Look its like this. To think that two movies that come out within weeks of each other that have two heroes fighting and not be compared is not ripe for comparison is to me folly. That said. Warner's should take some notes or try to steal the Russo Brothers to be their Kevin Feige but seeing how they are locked up til 2020 that will probably not happen.
I'll start with what I DIDN'T like about the movie. The airport scene over shadowed the final fight. I think people were still buzzing over it as the final act played out. The swerve of not getting Baron Zemo and his Master's of Evil was a bit disappointing. I was looking for a super-soldier battle. So now that I know this is was what the finale was I think I will appreciate it more on many repeated viewings. Oh course Cap won!
And that's what I didn't like.
I don't know even where to start with the rest of the movie.
Best super hero fight scene EVER at the airport.
Tony meeting Peter.
Hot Aunt May and Tony recognizing that fact.
GIANT-MAN! So glad I didn't spoiled on that.
Not so much the Black Panther but Chadwick Boseman killed T'Challa. @wildpigcomics I still have to listen to that episode!
I figured that Bucky had something to do with Tony parents death because it was raised as a possible plot point before the movie was made. So it's nice they went with it.
The movie did not filled overstuffed. Nothing was wasted. I look forward to seeing it again soon.
Ranking
1. Civil War
2. Winter Soldier
3. Avengers
M
M
M
I too was happy to see Black Widow switch sides and help out Cap. At the beginning, even my wife said that didn't fit with her character to side with Tony.
It was a damn good movie. The only two things that would have made it better for me would have been if Zemo wore his pink mask, and if Everett K. Ross had more wisecracks. Hope he gets a bigger role in the up coming Black Panther flick.
Taking the kids to see it this weekend. It will be interesting to see their reactions. Ant-man has been a favourite of theirs, so Giant Man will blow their minds.
Any thoughts on how this ended up? With Cap and his rag-tag crew on the lamb at the end of the film? Secret Avengers? I'm so curious to see how the cinematic universe handles their status and how this plays out over the next couple of films.
Civil War Spoilers
Lee surrenders.
Lincoln dies
Yeah, because no one who has a differing opinion had an argument that's lead to violence.
M
Panther was great.
Spidey was awesome.
Giant Man great.
And I still want a Black Widow solo movie.
This movie jumped all over the place. Cutting from one set of characters to another - back and forth with giant words on the screen to tell us where we were now....and it worked. Despite the large cast and many locations I thought the editing was good and I never felt like my head was spinning (unlike another "superhero" movie that will go unnamed).
I also liked how the movie trusted it's audience. There was no flashback of Rumlow getting hurt. No need for a Spider-Man origin. No explanation of the blue-blood. etc...
In another post I said how I chuckled at the funeral scene but truth be told I felt my eyeballs begin to sweat when Steve got the text about Peggy.
Loved the Vision and Scarlet Witch scenes. I'm not sure if they mean as much to non comic fans but I liked them.
The highlight was the airport scene. That fight was the most "comic-booky" moment I've ever had in a Marvel movie yet. Seeing Spider-Man fight The Falcon? Giant Man? C'mon, who could of guessed you'd ever see that in a movie?
I was critical of the idea of introducing Spider-Man into this movie. I didn't even like his intro in that one trailer. However, they did a great job with him in this movie and I ended up liking this kid quite a bit. The Spider-Man banter was top notch.
An excerpt: Not making this stuff up...
An excerpt: Not making this stuff up...
So, any time 2 guys who have grown up together like brothers, they must be gay?
Look, @Adam_Murdough will always be my longest, closest friend, who I see as a brother...but I have ZERO attraction to the guy. No offense to Adam, it's just how I feel.
M
SPOILER ALERT: CAP & BUCKY ARE NOT LOVERS.
+++++
It's just fun to post ridiculousness sometimes. Shame this sort of silliness is being given a modicum of legitimacy in an otherwise 'reputable' publication, but let's get back to discussing Civil War.