Episode 1269 Talkback: Spotlight on Batman: The Animated Series

Pants

Batman: The Animated Series premiered on September 5th, 1992 almost twenty years ago so we thought it was a good time for a Spotlight episode. We discuss our favorite episodes, the voice actors, the toys, the movies and more. (1:10:06)

Listen here.

mguy1977

BTAS -- the best cartoon of the 90s.
Along w/ Superboy tv series & Lois & Clark ABC Superman series TV was pretty good back then for geeks. I watched the two BTAS movies this year, the first one was great & the second one was meh.

Matthew

JCB

If there was ever something that defined me in my childhood, it was Batman: TAS.

Being 22, it's hard to believe that the show is pretty much as old as I am. The first film I remember seeing in theaters is Mask of the Phantasm, right after my 4th birthday. I think that, along with my first comic being a Batman Adventures issue, really implanted the character and mythos of Batman into my being. heh

There's a lot of moments that stick out with this cartoon and my life. I shared a metric crap-ton of Saturday mornings with my Dad watching Fox, and later KidsWB, and then afternoons and early evenings with Toonami. With him gone now, the TAS is almost bittersweet, but such a high point in my childhood.

Episodes that really stuck with me were Robins Reckoning and Old Wounds. Having older cousins, when we played with the Batman toys, I was always Robin, and eventually, I was always Nightwing. Dick Grayson has, and probably always will be, my favorite fictional character. In how Dick always wanted to be the best of Batman, and be his own man, was just an inspiration for me as a young kid and pre-teen. Taking the best elements of the people you admire, and leaving out the bad, just speaks of the strength of Dick's character.

The voice talents on the show still pop into my head when reading comics. Kevin Conroy IS Batman (sorry Christian) and Mark Hamill will always be MY Joker. Andrea Romano is one of the best, and really created a definitive idea for the characters in terms of casting.

The Timm-verse Batmobile is still my favorite version, and the only Batmobile besides the Lego ones I have on display. I think B:TAS really hammers home why I love Dustin Nguyen's Batman so much.

Batman Beyond is still rad on so many levels. It was Batman + Spidey + Nightwing. I will never forget hearing Eric Mathews as freaking Batman though. Feeeeeeeeeeny. But, in all seriousness, how they played with the elements of the past series with that idea, was always super fun. Epilogue (JLU ep) was a beautiful ending to that universe.

I think the only element that ever got my gears grinding, was the Bruce/Babs teasing. I'm biased, blame Chuck Dixon.

Now, if you excuse me, I need to pack my B:TAS boxset into my work bag. I know what I'm watching in my office for the next couple of days. Thanks for this ep guys, definitely made my day!

JaxUr

FYI: Remington Steele is coming back to tv reruns soon on the MyTV stations.

Also, check out Kevin Smith's "Fatman on Batman" podcast where he's interviewed Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, Arlene Sorkin, & Paul Dini.

the1captain

I was hoping someone would do a podcast celebrating this anniversary. What always amazed me is how there were some episodes that were direct adaptations from the comics. But most were original to the show. As much as I enjoy the direct to video animated movies DC puts out today, it would be nice if they took a que from this series and made some original animated stories rather than adaptations for comic stories. Also, how well they were able, with a few exceptions, to have each episode be a story in itself. New viewers could jump in at anytime. You didn't need to have a wiki knowledge of Batman continuity to enjoy the stories. Something the comics today could learn from.

Recently I've been getting on comixology the 1990's tie in comics. Surprised how well they hold up. For those interested the first issue from each of the various series on comixology is free. The other issues are only 99 cents. And so far for the most part they are more or less done in ones.

nweathington

As to why there was so much variance in the quality of the animation in those first two seasons of B:TAS, it wasn’t really because of the budget. The problem was that they were producing so many episodes in such a short amount of time, they had to use four, sometimes five different studios. By far the best studio they worked with was TMS in Japan (who also animated Lupin III, which was an influence on the look of B:TAS). The rest were Korean studios of varying quality. And within each of those studios were A units, B units, and C units. At TMS there wasn't a great drop-off in talent between the A unit and the C unit, but at the Korean studios there certainly was. And there was no way to guarantee which unit would get a certain episode, so sometimes a really good story would go to a C unit and sometimes a weaker story would go to an A unit. That helped maintain a bit more consistency overall, but it could also be very frustrating.

The main reason they changed the design of the show between B:TAS and TNAB&R was because they were no longer able to use THS. THS was no longer animating any shows they weren't directing themselves, and of course WB Animation wasn't going to hand over directorial control. The Korean studios were much improved, but there was still going to be a drop-off, so everything was redesigned in a simpler (in terms of animation) style that the overseas animators would be more comfortable with.

The “Legends of the Dark Knight” episode was definitely a highlight. It should be noted that Darwyn Cooke storyboarded the Dark Knight chapter, and James Tucker (who was a big Dick Sprang fan and would go on to produce Batman: The Brave & the Bold) storyboarded the Silver Age chapter.

Binker

Matt is actually wrong on the DC DTVs: Warner Preimere is over, but the DTVs are still going to happen, just now under the WB Animation banner.

The designs were changed (between BTAS and STAS/TNBA) because Timm though sleaker designs were be better, not because of the studios. TMS (not ths) did do episodes of TNBA.

Also, the Bruce Wayne TV series idea: that was live action, and it was basically to Batman, what Smallville was to Superman. The WB TV division was told by WB's Movie division that they coudn't do it because they were wanting a new Batman film, at the time Batman: Year One, but nothing was going on with Superman as Superman V was in development hell, so it was changed to Smallville.

I actually have all the info on the Batman V films, Superman V films, and this Bruce Wayne show.

Here is a great DC Animation site for you guys, and CGS:
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/

matchkitJOHN

JaxUr said:

FYI: Remington Steele is coming back to tv reruns soon on the MyTV stations.

Also, check out Kevin Smith's "Fatman on Batman" podcast where he's interviewed Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, Arlene Sorkin, & Paul Dini.

Let me co-sign on Fatman on Batman. Those shows were really entertaining. The Mark Hamil is a two-parter for like three hours and he talks about his early geekdowm that I did not know about. I really enjoyed the Tara Strong (Batgirl) episode.

nweathington

Yes, Bruce did think the sleeker designs were better. He also thought they brought a consistency to the animation. Here’s what he said in my interview with him:
“I didn’t want to go back and do more episodes of Batman. But we had tweaked our in-house design theories on Superman a bit. Superman was a bit more angular than the original Batman show was, and I was pretty pleased with the result. I thought the animation was much more consistent on Superman. So I thought, if we took that idea and went even further with it, what would be the result?”

And here’s what Darwyn Cooke told me in my interview with him: “When I got into it, TMS was still supplying animation for the shows, but only if they got to direct them too. They would not take a show we directed and animate it anymore because it was beneath them at that point.” So it appears TMS did a few of the first episodes of that season before they changed their policy, which means that wouldn't have been one of the reasons for the style change. But the consistency problem was definitely a big part of the decision.

MikeGallagher

I own and love all the Remington Steele DVDs. That stef is a hottie

dubbat138

When this show was originally airing I hated it . Not really sure why. But for X-mas a few years back I got all the seasons on DVD and now I enjoy the show.

LibraryBoy

BTAS is probably my favorite Batman anything ever. There are some clunkers to be sure (I've Got Batman in My Basement, that sewer kid one, the one where he goes undercover at that work camp which I have NEVER been able to even finish because I find it so boring), but when it was good, it was as good as Batman storytelling gets. Would've liked a little more Riddler, though. They always said Riddler stories were hard to write, but they got a few really good ones into the tie-in comics, so I never understood why they had a hard time on the show.

And yes, the voice-casting was superb. Andrea Romano's name comes up a lot in the episodes of Rob Paulsen's Talkin' Toons podcast that I've heard, and every person who mentions her pretty much worships the woman.

Never could really get into Batman Beyond, though. I've liked what I've seen, but never enough to really seek out the rest of the series.

LibraryBoy

Oh, and my favorite villain make-over? Clock King. His look was greatly improved, and I loved the idea that his love of efficiency and schedules made him so hard to capture, even if he wasn't a physical match for Batman, since he could plan his escapes to the second. And I always appreciated the punny nature of his real name, Temple Fugate.

nweathington

LibraryBoy said:

BTAS is probably my favorite Batman anything ever. There are some clunkers to be sure (I've Got Batman in My Basement, that sewer kid one, the one where he goes undercover at that work camp which I have NEVER been able to even finish because I find it so boring), but when it was good, it was as good as Batman storytelling gets. Would've liked a little more Riddler, though. They always said Riddler stories were hard to write, but they got a few really good ones into the tie-in comics, so I never understood why they had a hard time on the show.

And yes, the voice-casting was superb. Andrea Romano's name comes up a lot in the episodes of Rob Paulsen's Talkin' Toons podcast that I've heard, and every person who mentions her pretty much worships the woman.

Never could really get into Batman Beyond, though. I've liked what I've seen, but never enough to really seek out the rest of the series.

Yeah, the slave labor camp episode, “The Forgotten,” is an awful episode—by far my least favorite. The music—usually a highlight of the show—was terrible, and made the episode all the worse for it.

I like Batman Beyond quite a bit, perhaps even, dare I say it, better than B:TAS. The highs may not quite reach the highs of B:TAS, but even its worst episode was as good as an average episode of B:TAS, especially once you get past the first season.

rebis

I like to think that Batman Beyond was Timm's way of doing Spider-Man.

For a long time Conroy was Batman's voice for me. Lately, I find that the voice actor for Graphic Audio has taken his place.

I want to add my voice to those that love World's Finest. I don't know if it's the first time we had Bruce vs. Lex. However, it's the first time I remember it happening.

I've written this on other threads, but I'll add it here. I wish WB would make Timm the Czar of the DC Movieverse.

fredzilla

Here's that DKR trailer using scenes from BTAS that was discussed in the episode. Apparently it was for the Hub's 10 hour BTAS marathon.
http://youtu.be/btMtwz4P0fc

ShaneKelly

Very cool, I missed that on the HUB. So it sounded like they go the actual voice actors to record new parts for the trailer. Is that right? Very cool.

Kilmarock

Great episode of CGS. Loved this series when it came out but I didn't see it in it's entirety until a few years ago.

Personally, I prefer the original designs to the newer ones. In particular I don't like the revamped look of the Joker. He didn't look human enough for me.

One episode that I didn't hear mentioned on the episode but has always been a favorite of mine is Tyger, Tyger. I loved the whole Island of Dr. Moreau feel it had to it. Avatar (which was mentioned) is another good. Neither of them is what I think of as a traditional Batman story but sometimes it is fun to see how the Batman functions outside of Gotham.

Wasn't there also a Jonah Hex episode or am I just remembering incorrectly?

alienal

Hm, that HUB video was cool! Anyway, I think I was in the midst of grad school and in my 40's when the animated series started up and then I moved here to Japan after that, so over the last 20 years I've only seen a few episodes of all the series you talked about. Over all, I just like the quality of the animation compared to what I saw in the 60's. 70's, and 80's. Ah, but I don't think you can really say (Matt) that this was the first action-themed animated series made for adults. I think 60's Johnny Quest takes that crown: it first aired in either prime time or pre-prime on Fridays nights. Sure there were some humorous things with the two kids and the dog Bandit, but there were also adult themes like Race Bannon chasin' all the ladies plus a lot of spy, intrigue, and sci-fi elements thrown in.

dubbat138

Kilmarock said:

Wasn't there also a Jonah Hex episode or am I just remembering incorrectly?

There was and it is my favorite episode from the cartoon. Matter of fact when it aired it was the only episode I really enjoyed. But as I said earlier in recent years I have come to enjoy the series.

LibraryBoy

Kilmarock said:

Wasn't there also a Jonah Hex episode or am I just remembering incorrectly?

Yup. It was a flashback to Jonah taking on Ras al Ghul in the late 1800s. Very light on Batman, obviously, but a great story with a really affecting payoff.

DoobyKeebler

I loved BTAS...it came out my senior year of high school and was my gateway drug to Batman comics, since the movies were so...well, not good. BTAS is the grandfather that started it all--without BTAS and the spin-offs, I don't think there's a Brave and the Bold or Young Justice. Some of the episodes were clunkers (the never ending harmonica music in "The Forgotten", although the scene with Alfred flying the Batplane was almost enough to make it watchable), but they were what the Fleischer cartoons did to the 1930-1950s--set the bar high for other cartoons to meet. Then the 60s came and everyone forgot until BTAS what a dramatic cartoon was.

DoobyKeebler

And in terms of "adult cartoons"--which just sounds a little creepy...there were some great cartoons for persons 14+ like my personal favorite, Duckman. If you've never seen that show, at least check out an episode or two. One of our cats is named "Cornfed" because of that great show, which no one understands, so we always have to explain.

And if you want a great episode by episode review of BTAS all the way to Justice League Unlimited, "World's Finest Podcast" ended at 100 episodes a couple of years ago and although I'm not trying to plug another podcast, is quite good if you want an episode by episode review with some great comments added on. I am in no way affiliated with that podcast, but it helped me to relive all of the great episodes from the BTAS universe.

Adam_Murdough

Yeah, the slave labor camp episode, “The Forgotten,” is an awful episode—by far my least favorite. The music—usually a highlight of the show—was terrible, and made the episode all the worse for it.

"The Forgotten" is a lowlight of the series for me, too--amnesia stories have always been a turn-off for me, and this one is especially depressing--but I can't agree with your description of its music as "terrible," Eric. The score of that episode is one of its few redeeming features in my book. I can still hear it in my head some twenty years later: the driving tempo; the wailing harmonica; the persistent, even urgent, repetition of the five-note motif; all perfectly evocative of downtrodden souls caught up in a desperate race for freedom, somewhere in the dark heart of backwoods America. You could argue that it isn't good "Batman music," I suppose, but it's very well suited to the story the episode tells, weak though that story may be.

dubbat138

DoobyKeebler said:

And in terms of "adult cartoons"--which just sounds a little creepy...there were some great cartoons for persons 14+ like my personal favorite, Duckman. If you've never seen that show, at least check out an episode or two. One of our cats is named "Cornfed" because of that great show, which no one understands, so we always have to explain.

I love Duckman. Got every season on dvd and rewatch it every few years.

nweathington

I didn't mind the approach they took with the music, Adam, as I thought what they were trying to accomplish did fit the mood. I just think it was poorly executed. The blues and orchestral blend ended up sounding forced and too precise—the opposite of what blues music is supposed to be. Perhaps if they had gone strictly bluesy with it once they got to the desert, with only occasional orchestral stings to heighten the tension, it would have come out more to my liking. Maybe it's just the musician in me, but canned “blues” sounds worse to me than fingernails on a chalkboard.

Mr_Cosmic

I loved what they did with Mr. Freeze. His look, voice, and origin were all fantastic.

abuddah

Listen to JaxUr, if you are a fan, Fat Man on Batman is an AMAZing Podcast for you.

Matt is wrong, all these rumors about Warner Home Video being shut down are out of control.

Finally, I can't believe a man who owns and knows the value of a Robin Dragster doesn't want to do a podcast on toys

Matt

Hey, I did some research into the comment I made about the home video department of the WB being shutdown to pave the way for downloadable movies, and found out I was mistaken. I'm surprised no one posted anything about this sooner.

M

spid

I absolutely loved this show. It started airing my freshmen year of college. I was on a nerd dorm floor so at 5:00 pm everyday you would hear a bunch of people watching the show. I never collected DC comics as a kid so this version of Batman is the one I think of when I think of Batman.

Elsiebub

Finally listened to this episode, and wow it was worth the wait.

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said. I grew up with B:TAS and Kevin Conroy's voice (or a slight imagined alteration of it) is the voice I hear in my head when I read Batman comics. B:TAS itself is basically the definitive take on Batman for me. There are some disclaimers I might give, in that no single B:TAS story is as good as Dark Knight Returns or whatever, but, overall, B:TAS represents the entire idea of Batman better than any other incarnation, in my opinion.

The only other thing I have to say is that the The New Batman Adventures seemed distinctly INFERIOR to me. Most of the redesigns were neat, and they did have a charm to them, but those episodes just seem... cheap and insubstantial compared to B:TAS. Yes, TNBA seemed sleeker and more contemporary. But B:TAS just seemed to have more WEIGHT and depth, and that was reflected both in the art styles and in the storytelling. The B:TAS episodes just seemed like they had more to them and (as you guys said) could be enjoyed on a variety of different levels by different age groups. With TNBA, though, it seemed like what you saw was what you got: a singular, angular take on Batman and friends. That's not to say that there weren't great TNBA episodes -- there certainly were some very, very good ones! -- but overall TNBA seems like a footnote to B:TAS.

But maybe some of that is just ME. Personally, aside from a couple great TNBA episodes, I'd take the animation of the WORST B:TAS over TNBA. I just like the style of those '92-'94 cartoons so much more. Maybe I'm an exception, though, since (horror of horrors) I was always a little disappointed in the Superman and Justice League cartoons as well. They were good, but they all felt a little flimsier than B:TAS, which had the look and feel of noir literature..