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So Tim Drake was never Robin now?

Just been reading this article, bleedingcool.com/2012/09/16/retconning-robin-out-of-teen-titans-1/seems they have already started retconning the new 52?

Now Time Drake was never Robin? If that is the case that is a whole lot of the Batman cannon out the window!




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    This is one of the aspects of the New 52 that I don't enjoy. By carrying over some, but not all, elements of continuity you have these ridiculous situations where they're retconning in trade within 12 months of originally writing the damn stuff.
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    Does anyone over there know what's going on? How are fans supposed to keep this stuff straight when editorial can't?
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    While I haven't pick up a new comic since 2008..... it was the constant reboots, restarts, and stopping a series just to have an new Issue #1 that pretty much drove me away from comics. A series would get rebooted and I would just let that title drop off my list. Before I knew it.... I had only 4 titles on my pull list.
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    So now that means that now I have never liked robin since Drake is the only one i have ever liked. Not to mention the character that got me reading DC in the first place. Mildly annoying.
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    David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881

    So now that means that now I have never liked robin since Drake is the only one i have ever liked. Not to mention the character that got me reading DC in the first place. Mildly annoying.

    Though, to be fair, if the character got you to like DC in the first place, that experience is still valid. They may be doing different things now, but the stories that first made you enjoy that character are, to borrow the old, oft-quoted quote, 'still on the shelf just as they are'. They are just doing a different interpretation since.
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    I'm not exactly sure why this retcon happened.

    I mean, does it really matter to the current continuity that Tim Drake was Robin for a while? Sure, it seemed a ridiculous idea that Batman had gone through three or four Robins in the course of his (evidently) five year public career, but readers had kinda accepted that, right?

    I know Lobdell made the statement, but to actually go as far as changing the trade of the story to match that statement... well, it is just another thing that shows how little preparation there was for the New 52 reboot/relaunch/whatever thing.

    Making the change shines a spotlight on the idea of "we just decided to do this on a whim and didn't really discuss anything beforehand."

    Look, I like parts of the New 52, but this sort of quick "whoops" retcon only makes the whole thing come off as thrown together at the last minute. It would have been better to just let it go.
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    batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
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    This is my least favorite development out of the nU. And there are a lot of things I hate about it. But seeing a character I have enjoyed watching grow from a child who figured out the ultimate mystery of Batman's identity and then came in to help the dark knight grow as a hero and Bruce to grow as a person be so thoroughly and dismissively reduced to whatever it is that Lobdell thinks he should be sucks.

    Red Robin was a great title before the reboot. Tim Drake was the one who planted the seeds for Batman Inc and an international war on crime before Bruce came back. Time was taking on Ras and winning on his own. Tim was the man! And now he's a tard who wants to hang out with Wonder Girl despite the fact she was written as a total criminal who he should have been trying to have arrested. KEWL.
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    RedRight88RedRight88 Posts: 2,207
    This just further cements my belief that they just should've relaunched everything. Tim not being Robin at least makes sense from the standpoint that now Batman has only had 3 Robins over a five year span.
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    Oh gawd! They are making all of Matt's arguments against the new 52 right!
    Lol!

    This is very irksome. I don't mind retcons when they help a story or straighten something out, but this move does neither. It does nothing other than show how weak DC editorial is. One would assume they have plans for Robin in other media that Tim somehow would mess up. If this is true, this retcon could be seen as an awkward steering of the ship. Otherwise they are taking away Tim's identity at the core. Never a good thing. Especially as he is a beloved character. With this it would have been better not to have introduced him at all much like Donna Troy and Wally west.

    Is this an attack on legacy characters?
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    It'll be interesting to see if that edit ever replaces the original in my Comixology version of TT #1. They could actually go back and replace files to erase/edit all kinds of things.
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    TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    It is kind of sad, I'll admit. Kind of one of those "Would it be asking too much if we could MAKE UP OUR MINDS!?!" kind of things. :)

    There really ought to be a "slobbering fanboy" position at DC Editorial. I'm being serious. Someone mired in continuity who could set these knuckleheads straight on how to achieve their goals without pissing off the people who buy the books. Someone to point out that if Batman's only been Batman for five years, they're setting him up with four Robins in that time period, which makes it about as tenuous a position as a presidential cabinet position.

    - "We're going to make Starfire sexy again." - That's great guys, really. That's the version I grew up with and I'm all for it. Remember, though, that a whole generation of kids grew up with the cute ditz from the cartoon. There's likely to be some backlash.

    - "Superman and Wonder Woman are going to hook up." - Awesome! That'll sell a bunch of books. You do plan to keep this going longer than a year, right? Because if you don't they're going to roast you guys at the stake for the obvious cash-grab that this is. I hope you've planned out a good number of storylines to support it.

    - "We're not bringing back Donna Troy or Wally West." - Okay, screw you guys. I have nothing but contempt for you on this one. :)



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    Torchsong said:

    There really ought to be a "slobbering fanboy" position at DC Editorial.

    Frankly, I suspect they do have such a problem at DC Editorial and that that is exactly the problem. A lot of the New52 looks and reads like it was designed by slobbering fanboys.
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    It'll be interesting to see if that edit ever replaces the original in my Comixology version of TT #1. They could actually go back and replace files to erase/edit all kinds of things.

    That is a legit point. Online booksellers have been documented changing files of novels in the past.
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    TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    And from a total collector's viewpoint, does this make my copy of Teen Titans #1 with the original language an actual collector's item now? Doubtful, I know, but if they changed it for the trade...
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    batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    There should be no Damien or Jason in this universe.
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    MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    batlaw said:

    There should be no Damien or Jason in this universe.

    I concur with the kid, but not Jason. A rogue trained by Batman is great. The best villains are normally former allies.

    He adds more weight to Batman than the kid. Plus, because of his death, Tim got better training & better gear.

    M
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    I just read Batman #0 and you can see the ground they are laying for this, just sucks that this now never happened...
    image
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    danGPdanGP Posts: 65
    If the main driver for the change is that four Robins in five years doesn't really work then I don't really get it. As comic fans we've been taught to turn a blind eye to the passage of time in books.. For example if we're meant to believe that it's always 10 years since the Fantastic Four, Spidey etc first began their adventures in real time you have to suspend your disbelief that they could have possibly fitted everything between now and then. So four Robins in five years? I can live with that. Just tell me good stories.
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    batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    Matt said:

    batlaw said:

    There should be no Damien or Jason in this universe.

    I concur with the kid, but not Jason. A rogue trained by Batman is great. The best villains are normally former allies.

    He adds more weight to Batman than the kid. Plus, because of his death, Tim got better training & better gear.

    M
    I agree it IS a great idea. Except thats not what its ever really been, and theyve never handled anything about the character particularly well. They had no idea what to do with him pre new52 and he is even more disposable now.
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    danGP said:

    If the main driver for the change is that four Robins in five years doesn't really work then I don't really get it. As comic fans we've been taught to turn a blind eye to the passage of time in books.. For example if we're meant to believe that it's always 10 years since the Fantastic Four, Spidey etc first began their adventures in real time you have to suspend your disbelief that they could have possibly fitted everything between now and then. So four Robins in five years? I can live with that. Just tell me good stories.

    It's all a matter of suspension of disbelief. Time in comics tends to be flexible and can usually be ignored, so long as nothing disrupts that suspension of disbelief. Four Robins in five years is a bit much to accept. Four Robins in ten years is far less of a stretch, especially considering that Dick Grayson was supposed to have been twelve years old when he started as Robin and is now in his early twenties as Nightwing.
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    MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    batlaw said:

    Matt said:

    batlaw said:

    There should be no Damien or Jason in this universe.

    I concur with the kid, but not Jason. A rogue trained by Batman is great. The best villains are normally former allies.

    He adds more weight to Batman than the kid. Plus, because of his death, Tim got better training & better gear.

    M
    I agree it IS a great idea. Except thats not what its ever really been, and theyve never handled anything about the character particularly well. They had no idea what to do with him pre new52 and he is even more disposable now.
    Yikes. I really only read the Under the Hood storyline through to the end of Gotham Knights and the Battle for the Cowl. I thought the notion of Todd being what Batman could easily be if he took 2 more steps forward was interesting. Once they made him less of a killer and villain, I immediately stopped reading forward. I liked having 1 protege going rogue and using Batman's teachings against him (look at Obi-One and Anakin!)

    M.

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    MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    danGP said:

    If the main driver for the change is that four Robins in five years doesn't really work then I don't really get it. As comic fans we've been taught to turn a blind eye to the passage of time in books.. For example if we're meant to believe that it's always 10 years since the Fantastic Four, Spidey etc first began their adventures in real time you have to suspend your disbelief that they could have possibly fitted everything between now and then. So four Robins in five years? I can live with that. Just tell me good stories.

    It's all a matter of suspension of disbelief. Time in comics tends to be flexible and can usually be ignored, so long as nothing disrupts that suspension of disbelief. Four Robins in five years is a bit much to accept. Four Robins in ten years is far less of a stretch, especially considering that Dick Grayson was supposed to have been twelve years old when he started as Robin and is now in his early twenties as Nightwing.
    During our recent episode, I brought this POSSIBLE (though a streeeetttccchhhh) idea that if Tim was never "Robin" only "Red Robin" than Batman could have had 2 sidekicks at the same time. He might have had Robin AND Red Robin working with him. There was an issue of The Green Hornet from NOW comics where he had two people posing as Kato (both a male and female) to show his gang's manpower.

    M
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    I guess now I know how all those Dallas fans felt when Patrick Duffy stepped out the shower!
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    DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586
    edited September 2012

    I guess now I know how all those Dallas fans felt when Patrick Duffy stepped out the shower!

    Patrick Duffy was on the Cowboys? Man, the 80's must have been wild.
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