Batman 13 (possible spoiler alert)

Planeis

So... I recently subscribed to Batman, i was hoping #0 would be my first issue, but it was 13. I like the Joker coming back, like the art, and like Scott Snyders writing. But theres a lot i dont like.

1) the massive death toll. Wow. How many police officers killed in one issue? A dozen? More? Thats a horrifying tragedy. Maybe it bugs me more because of where i work, but police dying in fiction doesnt normally bother me.... Unless its in HUGE numbers and treated like its no big deal. There was a massacre in the begining and there was almost no discussion about all the dead people.

2) ANOTHER HUGE CROSSOVER?????? I enjoyed the owl story in Bats, but wasnt able to read all the connections all over the bat,an family titles. I was hoping they would be moving on to a story that was mostly just in the Batman book. But no, a huge crossover in all the Batman titles. And it appears they are doing that all over. Superman is having a bug crossover and so is Green Lantern. Grrrr

fredzilla

But if you're only buying Batman for $3.99 and getting the full story, DC only gets $3.99 of your money. If they have an event that crosses over a family of titles, DC is more likely to get your $2.99-$3.99 for each book--a 300%-400% profit increase a month from your wallet. Simple.

As far as the death? I wish I had an better answer than "to push the story along."

Cheers!

Planeis

Well obviously I understand the business part, but the titles seem to be crossing over more than in the past, but maybe thats just me. I was hoping for some shorter stories after the seemingly never ending Owl story

Chuck_Melville

Planeis said:

Superman is having a bug crossover and so is Green Lantern. Grrrr

Must be an infestation season.

David_D

I agree that police officers getting killed shouldn't be relied on too easily, and it should be a shocking and disturbing thing. It was a thing I found pretty repellent in the recent Nightwing #1, as two, I think unnamed, officers got killed while Nightwing changed into his costume. The timing was such that it seemed like, had he just dived in, he would have saved them, but to uphold his identity (and brand) he instead gets there a moment too late. I found that disgusting (though, in retrospect, I don't think it was intentional, it was just sloppy storytelling, but I think the fact that it went ahead that way is an example of the overuse of killing police you are talking about).

However in Batman #13, I think the police deaths are played as shocking. Horrifying. But they are treated as something that matters. It is the shock and the danger of the Joker being back. And I feel like, unlike in Nightwing and many other books that casually kill officers like it is Grand Theft Auto, the scene in Batman #13 played like horror. Which is to say, it was trying to make you feel like something terrible was happening to people. We see the scene from Gordon's point of view, and how powerless he is to defend his people. We hear the names of several of the officers, we HEAR them as they are being menaced and killed. And when the lights come on, we see the consequences. In the later scene, when the Joker kills the detail guarding the mayor, you actually see the mayor and Gordon crying over the bodies. (And that scene, too, makes the death of those officers a horrifying thing to look at. Such as that one poisoned officer begging Batman to help him).

So I definitely agree that this is not the kind of thing they should rely on too often, or casually, because it is a hard thing to see. But I don't think that was how it played in this issue. I feel like, as the kick off to this event, and as Joker's return after more than a year, that this was played like a big, shocking, terrible thing is happening. I don't think it plays like just another day in Gotham. That was how it felt to me, at least.

And if you just like Batman and don't read the other books involved in the crossover, I would advise skipping them. That is what I did with the Court of Owls crossover-- I just read the Batman issues, and I don't feel like I missed anything.

JCB

I think it portrayed a feeling of terror, trying to get you into Gordon's head to some extent. As an issue, it had to feel huge and daunting, and Snyder/Capullo/Glapion pulled it off.

With the crossover stuff, Snyder has said it himself: You only have to read Batman. The other books are supplements, and aren't the "main story".

Torchsong

As a WFTT'er, I was happy to see that when they solicited the trade for the 2nd "Batman" trade, which continues the Court of the Owls saga, they included all those supplemental issues that helped comprise the story. I think maybe one or two titles were left off, but it was still cool to see them take that route, as opposed to having to buy each individual trade if you didn't want to.

random73

I didn't think the officers murders were treated casually at all. the whole point was to communicate how horrific this new incarnation of the joker was. i also though it was interesting that each officer was given a name. this was not faceless slaughter these were people with families. and i feel that was abundantly clear.

random73

...so...you disagree. i'd discuss it with you but i don't know what part of my statement you disagree with.

Planeis

I think Its casual because instead of showing the aftermath of the slaughter, they moved right on to the next slaughter. I dont know. Maybe I am taking it too seriously, ive just noticed recently that mass deaths in comics happen even more and its just kinda like, "well... Moving on."

Chuck_Melville

Planeis said:

I think Its casual because instead of showing the aftermath of the slaughter, they moved right on to the next slaughter. I dont know. Maybe I am taking it too seriously, ive just noticed recently that mass deaths in comics happen even more and its just kinda like, "well... Moving on."

Yeah, I feel that too. (And I haven't even read this issue!) There seems to be an increasing level of intense violence and ultra-violence in a lot of books lately, to the point where it seems as meaningless as it is pointless, and a sense of ennui sets in. It's one of many reasons why the whole Death In The Family with the new version of the Joker doesn't interest me. I miss the old battle of wits and flashy crimes, and don't have the least interest in creepy, psychopathic splatter stories.

DoctorDoom

Planeis said:

And it appears they are doing that all over. Superman is having a bug crossover and so is Green Lantern. Grrrr

I have to buy Superman?

Frak!

Torchsong

I got the issue in question in the mail the other day. Wow! I'm actually into this story because for the first time in a long time the concept of the Joker scares me. I can see others' points about glossing over the killing of all the policemen, but I think that's the point - the Joker doesn't see these people as anything more than toys, and treats them as such. Sure they have homes, families, lives...does the Joker care? No. He's interested in two things - Batman and tormenting Gordon.

Loved the Harley backup feature. "When did I *ever* say I found you beautiful?"

random73

100% agree @torchsong that was my point exactly.

KyleMoyer

Ditto what @random23 and @Torchsong said.

Matt

Based on having only read Detective Comics #1 & from what understand occurs in this issue, I think this isn't "The calm before the storm," but "darkest just before dawn."

M