Episode 1297 Talkback: Marvel Now Round Two

Pants

Our coverage of the Marvel Now books continues as we give our Buy/Borrow/Pants reviews of Deadpool #1 and Iron Man #1. (53:13)

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luke52

Tony looks like a Botox job gone wrong!

Greg

@JamieD - You nailed why I have a hard time continuing to support Marvel. I'm not interested in a lot of these titles and the $3.99/double shipping does not make a good business model. Yeah, I know a whole lot of people have no problem with that model, but the only way I can show Marvel that I do not approve is to no longer buy those titles.

I'm sticking with Captain Marvel and Hawkeye. I am going to check out Fantastic Four, and I will keep getting Deadpool only because multiple people in the household are reading it. I'm going to try out Fearless Defenders and that is where I'm stopping with Marvel.

I was out of comics for many years. When I last read anything with Deadpool, he was not the comedic relief we see him as today. What happened? Not that I mind, but what initiated the change from just being the badass merc with a mouth to an Adult Swim type character?

As for Deadpool #1 itself, I liked the art, I think Tony Moore was a good choice for this, I just hope he can keep up on it. I didn't care the two SHIELD agents, I know this book is supposed to be about the funny but those agents don't fit for me. For an action/comedy book, it was ok. I'll have to give it another read through but for now it's a borrow.

Not reading anything else until Fantastic Four hits the racks.

MarkRojas

I enjoyed the Deadpool series by Danny Way, especially at the beginning where he played a part in the Secret Invasion. The flood of 'pool that came afterward with the corps and team-ups became a bit much for me. I do however enjoy the character very much, I am looking forward to the new video game starring Deadpool as well.

I do not recall him breaking the 4th wall in this issue, maybe I skipped over it, I enjoy those sprinkles here and there.

I agree very much that this story doesn't hold weight for a multi-issue arc.

MarkRojas

Also remember that the Iron Man 3 Story line is rumored to include the Extremis story line which is why this Iron Man issue brings it back around into the forefront. I imagine the trades will come out around opening night.

JDick

It is downright baffling how Uncanny Avengers, the flagship title of Marvel Now coming out of AvX, can be delayed. If DC would have stumbled like that with Justice League they would have been considered a joke. Shame on Marvel. This book is delayed yet others are double shipped regularly.

Urbalcloud

The weak reviews are starting to pile up. If I was a Marvel exec, I'd be wondering if we made the wrong choice not going for a complete reboot. Even worse, if the company does try to compensate with a full reboot in another year or so, it just means more #1s, further diluting the special-ness of it all. It's a shame. Really hoping this week brings some better reviews. Marvel needs it, right NOW.

David_D

@Urbalcloud It seems a little early to say that Marvel NOW! is a cause for concern. I would argue that Uncanny Avengers actually got quite a few positive reviews and buzz. Sure, the delay is embarrassing, but also not that surprising given that it is a Cassaday book. And, as readers continued to buy Astonishing X-Men despite those delays, it may be that the same will be true here, we'll see.

Personally, I thought Iron Man #1 and Deadpool #1 were solid. (I am not a usual Deadpool fan, but the Tony Moore art looked great, and it seemed fun for what it was). Probably the book I have heard the most negative reviews for (I haven't read it, so I can't speak for it myself) is Red She Hulk. . . but I don't think anyone saw that as one of the big guns of Marvel NOW!, and I don't even think I have seen any house ad promotion for it.

And speaking of big guns, there are many of those to come by Marvel's most popular creators.

Now, that doesn't mean that someone with high hopes who haven't liked any of these books yet can't be disappointed. Of course they may be. But if I imagine myself as an exec, I think I would keep in perspective that this has only just started. And even if bad reviews may be piling up, the real indicator will be what the sales are. And we haven't seen those yet for most of the books, but it does say something that October, with the launch of Uncanny Avengers, was the first time Marvel has been back on top for the first time in awhile, sales wise. I think execs might see that as a positive start.

fredzilla

@Greg and @JamieD Completely agree. I've whittled my Marvel books down to Amazing Spider-Man (now Superior Spider-Man), Daredevil, and Ultimate Comics Spider-Man. Occasionally I may pick up something else, but I'm done playing Marvel's game. I can't afford them anymore.

BlackUmbrella

Marvel's creating an economy for themselves where if the books are not completely amazing, you can't stick with a title. It would be awesome if that resulted in their creating amazing books more consistently, and maybe it will. But with month old DC books being available for $1.99 on Comixology, it allows you to stick with and follow books that are struggling a bit. With DC, I don't have the TIME to follow all the titles I'd like to. That's much better than not having the money.

Chuck_Melville

Actually, both DC and Marvel's new outputs have been making it very easy for me to winnow my monthly purchases down. I trimmed away two more monthly titles from my order this month.

SigurdJarlson

I must be the odd one out, ever since the solicts for marvel now my pullist keeps growing

Urbalcloud

Thanks for the reply, @David_D. I agree with you on many points. We definitely have a long way to go before we can really judge this as win, lose, or draw, and sales may tell a radically different story than what I've seen in some of the negative reviews.

I'm not sure I agree that fans will wait for Uncanny Avengers the same way many did for Astonishing X-Men. This is a very different John Cassaday on this book, and Remender's draw is different from Whedon's. However, again, it's too soon to analyze too much. :)

And @SigurdJarlson, you are not alone! I am also adding new Marvel titles every month. Good reviews or bad, this re-whatever-it-is means a convenient chance to find new titles to enjoy. That alone would have me sampling for these first few months.

LibraryBoy

Oh, man, the AR intro for Deadpool made my soul die a little. Talk about trying WAY too hard! I'm not a Deadpool fan, but he can be funny, and it sounds like he's used alright in the story itself (I'm just enough of a history nerd that this zombie president thing makes me want to go back and pick this up now, especially if Teddy Roosevelt shows up), and I think Brian Posehn (pronounced Poe-sane, by the way) is a really funny comedian who knows his shit when it comes to comics (go back and watch the LCS scenes with him and Patton Oswalt in the Comedians of Comedy movie and series)... but whichever editorial assistant was tapped to write (and probably perform) that bit was just awful.

David_D

LibraryBoy said:

Oh, man, the AR intro for Deadpool made my soul die a little. Talk about trying WAY too hard! I'm not a Deadpool fan, but he can be funny, and it sounds like he's used alright in the story itself (I'm just enough of a history nerd that this zombie president thing makes me want to go back and pick this up now, especially if Teddy Roosevelt shows up), and I think Brian Posehn (pronounced Poe-sane, by the way) is a really funny comedian who knows his shit when it comes to comics (go back and watch the LCS scenes with him and Patton Oswalt in the Comedians of Comedy movie and series)... but whichever editorial assistant was tapped to write (and probably perform) that bit was just awful.

This is the sort of thing that makes me glad I have never tried any of the AR stuff. I have (mostly) got myself to stop noticing the symbol when it clutters up the page of art I have paid for, and I hope it is a gimmick going away soon.

Mr_Cosmic

re: AR

I have an iPhone 4 and an iPad 2 with the AR app on both. I find trying to get the contet to actually engage to be too much of a hassle. Who wants to take few frustrating minutes out of their reading time just to see something like this Deadpool crap?

elkinscs

I agree with the guys on Iron Man, the story is old hat and the art was a bit underwhelming. Deadpool, however, I really enjoyed (it didn't hurt that Tony Moore was doing a signing and $20 head sketches at my local store), The art was top notch, that I think we can all agree on. The writing needs work, but keep in mind these are guys still learning to write comics. They are very funny guys but they are used to working in TV and are making a transition. For instance, the line "you have nothing to fear but me" was pretty funny, however, "here's a new deal, die" fell flat. That line, however, would have worked in a live-action setting. Give these guys some time and I think they can be a really great writing team. Just the concept of writing a comic about zombie presidents shows that they are smart, witty and timely as writers. I have a lot of optimism about this book.

No spoilers, but I just finished Thor: God of Thunder, All-New X-Men and Fantastic Four. These were some really good books, and @David_D use the AR on Fantastic Four and you will see what this app has the potential to be. Insights on creative direction, recap pages and easter eggs on little details that put the book over the top. My reading of Fantastic was definitely enhanced by the AR app. I hate the double shipping and Marvel's business model, but the comics so far have been very solid and I'm finally adding Marvel titles again.

fredzilla

Mr_Cosmic said:

re: AR

I have an iPhone 4 and an iPad 2 with the AR app on both. I find trying to get the contet to actually engage to be too much of a hassle. Who wants to take few frustrating minutes out of their reading time just to see something like this Deadpool crap?

I have the same set-up as you and I tried it with one of the Spider-Men issues and thought it was lame. I can see how some people appreciate it, but I'm too used to seeing "bonus" content in the back of the trade (part of the reason I get them-sketches, scripts, etc.). Maybe if they did away with this the price could drop a bit? Yeah, I don't think so either...

Corwin

Wow no Deadpool love.
Daniel's Way run had a lot of ups and down...more ups than downs. The first 18 issues were probably the best of all. Deadpool Vs the Thunderbolts...DP Vs Bullseye especially...great stuff.

But I thought Deadpool #1 was good. Certainly better than the book has been but given enough time I think it has great potential...

(and for all the 'pool fans out there, shameless plug time...we cover DP #1 in our latest ep.)

Corwin

Iron Man #1...the Land art killed it for me. Sorry. I love my X-Men so I powered thorugh him on Uncanny X-men but I don't like Iron Man enough to sit through this.

Now the Extremis Tech has huge untapped potential. I know you guys said it's an old story beat that Marvel is reverting to but considering it's coming up in the next Iron Man movie, I'm not surprised.

The Extremis Tech is essentially a virus that hacks the human body so you can make just about any modification you see fit. Again great potential if used correctly.

alienal

Just listened...well, I wish you guys would decide what you want. A total reboot or continuing stories. It seems your criticism of the issues (but particularly Iron Man) was that it didn't start anything new. Well, was it supposed to? It is just a new number one with a new creative team, but the stories ARE supposed to continue from where they left off. Anyway, I gave the Deadpool a borrow even though, like Pants, I got the next couple of months bundles. Iron Man, well I stopped getting the previous series with Fraction and Larocca cuz it just got repetitive and I suspect we'll get the same with this. So I'd give it a low buy. I probably will drop it when I stop getting the bundles.

Matt

alienal said:

Just listened...well, I wish you guys would decide what you want. A total reboot or continuing stories. It seems your criticism of the issues (but particularly Iron Man) was that it didn't start anything new. Well, was it supposed to? It is just a new number one with a new creative team, but the stories ARE supposed to continue from where they left off. Anyway, I gave the Deadpool a borrow even though, like Pants, I got the next couple of months bundles. Iron Man, well I stopped getting the previous series with Fraction and Larocca cuz it just got repetitive and I suspect we'll get the same with this. So I'd give it a low buy. I probably will drop it when I stop getting the bundles.

Just like with DC a year (or so) ago, I don't like a the idea of a relaunch/reboot. I think neither Marvel or DC really did a reboot. DC kept Batman & GL intact (apparently, THEIR timeline wouldve been exactly the same following the changes Flash made.)

Marvel did less of a reboot by keeping everything in continuity (like Bats & GL), they just shuffled the creative teams, changed title names, & establish new #1s.

M

Corwin

I can't blame DC for not changing the GL and Batman titles...I think they were the best selling titles before the relaunch but there have been minor tweaks. (Kyle and Jade for one glaring example...)

As for Marvel, they did what they always do; a relaunch.

Completely different than DC and I honestly think they would have relaunched each family of titles anyways. Hell the Avengers just went throught it in 2010 the X-Men more recently. Now maybe what DC did caused Marvel to do more titles at once but I think the relaunch would have happened anyway.

I've also got to give Marvel respect for keeping their continuity...it's one of the things I especially love about the X-Men, what happened in the past still reverbrates today and I go back and read the material if any reference is made today.

Cyclops had to send his son to the future? Got those issues
Wolverine Crucified? Got those issues
Colossus joins Magneto? Got those issues
Cyclops gains control of his optic blast? you get the point.

I give Marvel a +1 for not rebooting.

Matt

Corwin said:

I can't blame DC for not changing the GL and Batman titles...I think they were the best selling titles before the relaunch but there have been minor tweaks. (Kyle and Jade for one glaring example...)

As for Marvel, they did what they always do; a relaunch.

Completely different than DC and I honestly think they would have relaunched each family of titles anyways. Hell the Avengers just went throught it in 2010 the X-Men more recently. Now maybe what DC did caused Marvel to do more titles at once but I think the relaunch would have happened anyway.

I've also got to give Marvel respect for keeping their continuity...it's one of the things I especially love about the X-Men, what happened in the past still reverbrates today and I go back and read the material if any reference is made today.

Cyclops had to send his son to the future? Got those issues
Wolverine Crucified? Got those issues
Colossus joins Magneto? Got those issues
Cyclops gains control of his optic blast? you get the point.

I give Marvel a +1 for not rebooting.

I still think that's picking & choosing on DC's part. Essentially, everything that people like is still in continuity, the sucky storylines aren't. If its marketed as a company-wide relaunch, then everything should start over. GL & Batman should just be collateral damage of the relaunch.

Marvel is just giving us misdirection; which is something I respect as someone who does it all the time. The MarvelNOW! is marketed like a relaunch; new Spidey, new teams, new titles,#1s, etc. In actuality, its nothing more then canceling titles to start new titles with different adjectives. If the banners were Dark Reign instead of MarvelNOW!, it'd be the exact same.

M

bats00

I still think that's picking & choosing on DC's part. Essentially, everything that people like is still in continuity, the sucky storylines aren't. If its marketed as a company-wide relaunch, then everything should start over. GL & Batman should just be collateral damage of the relaunch.

Marvel is just giving us misdirection; which is something I respect as someone who does it all the time. The MarvelNOW! is marketed like a relaunch; new Spidey, new teams, new titles,#1s, etc. In actuality, its nothing more then canceling titles to start new titles with different adjectives. If the banners were Dark Reign instead of MarvelNOW!, it'd be the exact same.

M


I partially agree with what you are saying. Yes, Marvel is doing now what they did with Dark Reign. However if it's done good, does it matter?

As for what DC is doing, I mostly agree with you that they are picking and choosing what to keep but have trouble believing that every one at DC thinks all Teen Titan stories from Brave and the Bold 54 to Teen Titans 100 (last series) was sucky. Does Johns think that little of his run (LOL) or Wolfman/Perez's?

John_Steed

Deadpool #1 Love the madness. The artwork is amazing. If I get the urge for some whacky good fun I tend to seek out stuff like Deadpool. It's always over the top and never even tries to be a intellectual thing. Deadpool has once killed the entire Marvel Universe and most of the literary world. My rating: "buy"

Iron Man #1 What a dull book. The story didn't grab me. And the art style doesn't appeal to me. It's a character that never was interesting to me (at least in the books - spoiled by the movies I guess) My rating: "pants"