I just noticed a plot hole in the Empire Strikes Back
RedRight88
Posts: 2,207
Note: The following pertains to the 2004 Special Edition DVD release of the film.
Okay so I was watching Empire last night and I noticed that when Vader receives the probe droid's message he says something to the effect of "That is where the rebels are hiding and Skywalker is with them".
Yet later; when Vader is talking with Emperor Palpatine he's taken aback at the Emperor's assertion that "the young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star...I believe him to be the son of Anakin Skywalker".
Wouldn't Vader have already made the connection at this point, or is Skywalker that ubiquitous a name in the Star Wars Universe?!
Or should I just blame the midichlorians like everyone else does?
Okay so I was watching Empire last night and I noticed that when Vader receives the probe droid's message he says something to the effect of "That is where the rebels are hiding and Skywalker is with them".
Yet later; when Vader is talking with Emperor Palpatine he's taken aback at the Emperor's assertion that "the young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star...I believe him to be the son of Anakin Skywalker".
Wouldn't Vader have already made the connection at this point, or is Skywalker that ubiquitous a name in the Star Wars Universe?!
Or should I just blame the midichlorians like everyone else does?
Comments
* Vader never recognising R2D2 or C3PO
* Leia says she remembers her mother, yet she died in childbirth.
Plus the pre-special edition...
* Luke and Leia snog in Empire (planned it all along my ass George)...
* What are the rebel strike force doing while the gang are hanging with the Ewoks in Jedi?
* Darth Vader is clueless about the existence of his own children until he is told, then he can sense Luke easily, powerful Jedi my ass...
* Also in hiding Luke at birth would of it not been wise to change his surname!!!
and the one I always found hardest to swallow:
The Death Star had to delay destroying the Rebel Base on the moon of Yavin because there was a planet in the way! It's the DEATH STAR! Blow it up! The moon will blow up as well!!!
Still love it though!
But in these cases, I tell myself to paraphrase the Love Theme to Mystery Science Theater 3000: "just repeat to yourself it's just a [movie], I should really just relax!" :))
* Vader never recognising R2D2 or C3PO
I could understand C3PO but does he even see R2D2? Maybe he doesn't pay enough attention to the droid. Also, I don't think he really does get a good look at C3PO considering he's not assembled when he sees him in Empire.
* Leia says she remembers her mother, yet she died in childbirth.
Maybe she's talking about her adopted mother and not her birth mother.
Plus the pre-special edition...
* Luke and Leia snog in Empire (planned it all along my ass George)...
They don't know that they are brother/sister at that point and honestly, Leia is doing that mostly to make Han jealous.
* What are the rebel strike force doing while the gang are hanging with the Ewoks in Jedi?
Probably heading to the Death Star and waiting to make synchronized attack.
* Darth Vader is clueless about the existence of his own children until he is told, then he can sense Luke easily, powerful Jedi my ass...
Darth Vader thought his wife had died so why would he assume that his children were even born?
* Also in hiding Luke at birth would of it not been wise to change his surname!!!
He's a farm boy in a planet nobody even cares about. That's why Uncle Owen wanted to keep him on Tatooine. His identity is more or less blown after the Death Star blowing up.
and the one I always found hardest to swallow:
* The Death Star had to delay destroying the Rebel Base on the moon of Yavin because there was a planet in the way! It's the DEATH STAR! Blow it up! The moon will blow up as well!!!
We don't know how much power it takes to use that weapon for the first Death Star. Maybe with the designs for the first Death Star, it needed to recharge the weapon so the had to get around the other planet first as to not waste time. Maybe it would have taken more time to destroy Yavin if the Death Star just blew up the planet in the way.
The Vader stuff is annoying though, it is like the Empereor tells him and then Vader says "oh yeah"...
But the Death Star charged up and took out Alderan pretty quick, surely Yavin wasnt much bigger?
It's still awesome though!
Just sayin'.
The stuff with Vader and Luke is hard. You can't see Vader's expressions through the mask and it's hard to get across emotion but I have a feeling that Vader was trying to come up with plans to save Luke as soon as he figured it out. Remember that Vader is the one who comes up with the idea of turning Luke to their side.
As for the first Death Star in the A New Hope, we see the Death Star destroy Alderaan, yes. But we don't see the Death Star reload and destroy another planet. What I was saying is if the first Death Star destroyed the planet that was in the way of Yaavin IV, they might have had to recharge the weapon again and it might have taken longer than it would have to just move around the planet in it's way.
A little off topic.
I used to own this book, which contained tons of information about the making of the movie, mostly in the form of Telexes, which were sort of email/fax forms of communications useful for cross-Atlantic collaboration.
It was painfully clear, from this information, that the Luke - Leia thing was NOT planned out, at all, ever, until they were halfway done shooting Jedi.
When Yoda says "There is another" in Empire, it meant NOTHING, but was just a mysterious thing that would tantalize the viewer. Later, it made sense, with them being siblings, but that was not originally the meaning.
If I remember correctly, the origin of them being siblings derived (ironically) from the filming of the final confrontation between Vader and Luke, when Vader needed something to taunt Luke with, to cause him to go into a rage... and he teased him with the idea that he would turn his sister to the dark side. That solved a huge number of plot holes in Empire and Jedi, and neatly tied up the Han - Luke - Leia love triangle.
So, believe it or not, George was winging it, and didn't even solve the problem himself.. the screenwriter and director did.
He hid Luke on Vader's home planet, near his homestead, with Vader's relatives (Owen was Anakin's stepbrother), kept the Skywalker name, and let him know who his father was. And then, Kenobi set up shop just a few miles down the road. Wouldn't one of the two remaining Jedi in the universe make Vader's force senses tingle like crazy when he passed by his old home?
Pretty stupid.
Obi Wan: "So what am I gonna do with these kids?"
Bail Organa: "I'll take the chick."
Obi Wan: "Well, okay, one down. Anyone got any ideas about the boy?"
Padme: "Wait.. *kaff koff* before I go... there was... this time... Anakin was... whining..."
Obi Wan: "Yeah, that doesn't narrow it down as much as you'd think, Senator."
So I'm going to stick with picking one of my favorites apart piece by piece, doesn't mean I won't continue to love it, and picking it apart piece by piece is actually part of that love.
As far as the X-wing, yes it has hyperdrive and I believe I read that Luke is one of the only ones that uses it for long periods of time because he can put himself into a Jedi trance or something and sleep because otherwise there's not a lot of room to move around. Seem to recall there's a way to lay down in the cockpit or something.
Citizen Kane was such a cinematic break-through when it was released, that comic book artists all over NYC went and saw it numerous times in order to take note of all of the visual tricks employed by Welles; old hat now, but entirely cutting-edge cinema at the time. There were even competitions to see who could view it the most times. Plot holes notwithstanding, it's worth seeing just for the historical significance of both subject matter and its place in Cinema importance. (And for its inspiration of so many comic book artists.)
1 - Equipped with an astromech droid. Astromech droid is intended to provide the complex calculations necessary for hyperdrive jumps. Ties don't have astromech droids and are only seen as carrier (star destroyer or deathstar) launched.
2 - In Empire, Luke has R2 plot a course to the Dagobah system from Hoth and then again from Dagobah to Bespin. Both are interstellar distances that would require hyperdrive to navigate.
It's far more clearly addressed in the EU stuff.
But no one was there when Kane said "Rosebud". D'oh!
As for Citizen Kane, everyone knows that Revenge of the Sith IS Citizen Kane.
http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-fan-theories-that-actually-make-great-movies-better/