Episode 1314 Talkback: Comic Talk

Pants

Topics of discussion include the recent Locust Moon Comics Festival in Philadelphia, 2013 CGS convention appearances, Bryan's thoughts on some recent Marvel Now #1 issues and the mid-season finale of Arrow. (1:05:41)

Listen here.

rebis

Pants. There are Golden Corrals in Denver. No need to wait for HeroesCon to feast.

However, I won't be feasting with you. The one and only time I went to GC I suffered with a golden brick making it's way through my large intestine.

Looking forward to meeting you all in Denver!

luckymustard

On the multiple titles for one character/group... Deemer said that Thor doesn't need multiple titles. May I ask then, does any character/team? What is the difference between characters where one needs multiple titles, but another doesn't?

rebis

luckymustard said:

On the multiple titles for one character/group... Deemer said that Thor doesn't need multiple titles. May I ask then, does any character/team? What is the difference between characters where one needs multiple titles, but another doesn't?

It sounded like Bryan assumed that Journey Into Mystery was another Thor title. Anyway,

" What is the difference between characters where one needs multiple titles, but another doesn't?"

Sales.

rebis

rebis said:

Pants. There are Golden Corrals in Denver. No need to wait for HeroesCon to feast.

However, I won't be feasting with you. The one and only time I went to GC I suffered with a golden brick making it's way through my large intestine.

Looking forward to meeting you all in Denver!

Btw, if you feel the need to feast I would suggest Cinzetti's. It's an Italian themed buffet on the North side of town. Being a buffet one can still do a LOT of damage, but the quality of the food is really good so you don't mind the pain too much.
Or, I run a Soup Kitchen for my church. You can show up Saturday night between 5 and 7 and eat for free. The Soup Kitchen in also on the North side of town.

John_Steed

@rebis : Kudos! for running a soup kitchen. :-bd

MisterPhil

Here's a link to the Jim Rugg NOTEBOOK DRAWINGS from AdHouse Books.
http://www.adhousebooks.com/books/notebook.html
You can download a PDF preview to see 6 of the illustrations.

And here's a link to the Ryan Gosling/Drive/Pole Position illustration that Bryan Deemer mentioned.
http://jimrugg.tumblr.com/post/23376921036/drive-jim-rugg

Deemer, it was a pleasure to see you, as always.

rebis

I would love to see a book of Frank Cho Ball Point Pen drawings.

Mr_Cosmic

Arrow: Jamie said Deathstroke's mask was white and black...I see orange and black. The flashbacks are washed out, color wise, and it might just appear "white-ish" on his tv.

JDick

luckymustard said:

On the multiple titles for one character/group... Deemer said that Thor doesn't need multiple titles. May I ask then, does any character/team? What is the difference between characters where one needs multiple titles, but another doesn't?

He has said before that no character should have more than one title.

JDick

I agree with Deemer that these multiple titles for the same character are crazy...especially with books that double ship.
One thing I can't wrap my head around is how Deemer can justify his love of John Romita Jr. yet call Mike Allred crap. They are both super distinctive stylized artists.

Chuck_Melville

JDick said:

I agree with Deemer that these multiple titles for the same character are crazy...especially with books that double ship.
One thing I can't wrap my head around is how Deemer can justify his love of John Romita Jr. yet call Mike Allred crap. They are both super distinctive stylized artists.

I'm not particularly fond of Allred either, but I wouldn't call his work crap. (There are very few artists whose work I would call crap.) I'd say it was more of an acquired taste. I like him fine on some features, but not in all cases. I don't like what I've seen so far as the FF is concerned.

dubbat138

Chuck_Melville said:

JDick said:

I agree with Deemer that these multiple titles for the same character are crazy...especially with books that double ship.
One thing I can't wrap my head around is how Deemer can justify his love of John Romita Jr. yet call Mike Allred crap. They are both super distinctive stylized artists.

I'm not particularly fond of Allred either, but I wouldn't call his work crap. (There are very few artists whose work I would call crap.) I'd say it was more of an acquired taste. I like him fine on some features, but not in all cases. I don't like what I've seen so far as the FF is concerned.

And see I love Allred and find JRJR to be massively over rated.

Chuck_Melville

dubbat138 said:

Chuck_Melville said:

JDick said:

I agree with Deemer that these multiple titles for the same character are crazy...especially with books that double ship.
One thing I can't wrap my head around is how Deemer can justify his love of John Romita Jr. yet call Mike Allred crap. They are both super distinctive stylized artists.

I'm not particularly fond of Allred either, but I wouldn't call his work crap. (There are very few artists whose work I would call crap.) I'd say it was more of an acquired taste. I like him fine on some features, but not in all cases. I don't like what I've seen so far as the FF is concerned.

And see I love Allred and find JRJR to be massively over rated.

And I feel pretty much the reverse.

Mr_Cosmic

JRJR's work has become almost amateurish to me. Everything is blocky and his faces all look the same. His books always look rushed and some of his designs end up looking lazy or sloppy. He is one of those artists where I need to really like the writer a lot or else I'll avoid the book he is drawing.

Allred's art is clean, smooth, and pleasing to my eyes. I love how he draws faces, action, women, etc. He could draw just about anything and I'd buy the book just for the art.

rebis

Mr_Cosmic said:

JRJR's work has become almost amateurish to me. Everything is blocky and his faces all look the same. His books always look rushed and some of his designs end up looking lazy or sloppy. He is one of those artists where I need to really like the writer a lot or else I'll avoid the book he is drawing.

Allred's art is clean, smooth, and pleasing to my eyes. I love how he draws faces, action, women, etc. He could draw just about anything and I'd buy the book just for the art.

I think of JR Jr. and Allred as the two sides of the same coin. Both can look rushed and have some wonky perspective. However where JR is all about the cone, cylinder, and sphere. Allred is all about the line. A beautiful line is much more appealing to me then basic shapes so I'll always prefer Allred over JR.

dubbat138

Romita Jr has ,to me at least,a very blocky style. He adds to many lines to everything. I did like his art on the Daredevil Man without fear mini. And in Kick ass.But his other work left me cold.

Chuck_Melville

Whereas I find Romita Jr's work to be about energy and power, reminiscent in some ways of Kirby's work, and a very solid performance. Allred's work is a bit on the cartoonish side (and I hate to use the word in a pejorative way like that) and seems ill-at-ease with the material he's handling. I'll gladly pick up a book on the strength of the mere word of Romita's participation, whereas I'd be extremely hesitant to pick up an Allred book without flipping through it and evaluating it first -- and maybe not even then.

nweathington

The funny thing about comparing JR and Allred is that they share many of the same influences. Both have Kirby at the core of their artwork. But while JR tends toward late Kirby, which was all about dynamic poses and kinetic energy in the pages, Allred tends toward early Kirby (Simon & Kirby-era Kirby), which was more fluid and slick thanks in large part to Joe Simon’s inking.

There was a lot of Romita Sr. in JR’s early work, but that’s faded over time, and the Kirby and Buscema influence (as well as Klaus Janson’s influence) have risen to the fore. I will say that JR works best with an inker who knows how to draw—like Klaus Janson or Al Williamson. JR is far more interested in the storytelling than in making a pretty picture, and he’s developed many shortcuts in his penciling that, unfortunately, a lot of inkers don't seem to know how to interpret. Part of that may have come from the many years he spent doing only breakdowns rather than full pencils, but I can’t say that for sure.

With Allred, his style hasn’t changed as dramatically over the years, it’s just become more refined as his drawing ability has improved. And rather than JR’s influence of the power and weight of John Buscema’s figure drawing, Allred was influenced more by the DC comics of the ’60s, particularly artists like Curt Swan, Ramona Fradon, and such, who were more in keeping with the slick DC style established by Dan Barry in the late 1940s/early 1950s. These days, Allred doesn’t ink, but instead adjusts the darkness of his pencils in Photoshop. It's changed the look of his work somewhat, making it look even less traditional than before. I can see where it may turn some readers off.

Personally, I like both quite a bit. I think both are consummate storytellers first and foremost, which is the first thing I look for in an artist’s work.

Chuck_Melville

nweathington said:

The funny thing about comparing JR and Allred is that they share many of the same influences. Both have Kirby at the core of their artwork. But while JR tends toward late Kirby, which was all about dynamic poses and kinetic energy in the pages, Allred tends toward early Kirby (Simon & Kirby-era Kirby), which was more fluid and slick thanks in large part to Joe Simon’s inking.

There was a lot of Romita Sr. in JR’s early work, but that’s faded over time, and the Kirby and Buscema influence (as well as Klaus Janson’s influence) have risen to the fore. I will say that JR works best with an inker who knows how to draw—like Klaus Janson or Al Williamson. JR is far more interested in the storytelling than in making a pretty picture, and he’s developed many shortcuts in his penciling that, unfortunately, a lot of inkers don't seem to know how to interpret. Part of that may have come from the many years he spent doing only breakdowns rather than full pencils, but I can’t say that for sure.

With Allred, his style hasn’t changed as dramatically over the years, it’s just become more refined as his drawing ability has improved. And rather than JR’s influence of the power and weight of John Buscema’s figure drawing, Allred was influenced more by the DC comics of the ’60s, particularly artists like Curt Swan, Ramona Fradon, and such, who were more in keeping with the slick DC style established by Dan Barry in the late 1940s/early 1950s. These days, Allred doesn’t ink, but instead adjusts the darkness of his pencils in Photoshop. It's changed the look of his work somewhat, making it look even less traditional than before. I can see where it may turn some readers off.

Personally, I like both quite a bit. I think both are consummate storytellers first and foremost, which is the first thing I look for in an artist’s work.

That's a pretty cogent breakdown and appreciation of the two, and I pretty much agree with it. I don't actually dislike Allred, but I'm not as inclined to his work as I am to others.