Episode 1321 Talkback: Comic Talk

Pants

In this episode we recap our weekend visit with the Wild Pig Comics crew, discuss the writing change on Constantine, talk about the recent DC cancelled titles as well as the ending of Comics Buyer's Guide. (53:49)

Listen here.

LibraryBoy

I'm feeling the New 52 burnout, too. I wasn't following the entire line, but I started off following maybe 8 to 10 of the books, and am now down to just 2, Supergirl and Worlds' Finest (and if I'm being honest, Supergirl is starting to look a little iffy). I worry that it's just aging fanboy entitlement setting in, but at the same time, a lot of the stories that seem to have been working for people are things that could've occurred just as easily (if not more so) in the pre-Flashpoint DCU (Court of Owls, Aquaman's Atlantis stuff, Demon Knights, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, etc.). And giant chunks of the rest just seem like either change for change's sake, or else attempts to modernize classic concepts (especially Superman and Captain Marvel) that seem like they'll be out of date in just a few years time and need to be reworked again, because nothing ages faster or worse than "modern."

At the same time, there are GIANT chunks of pre-Flashpoint, and hell, even pre-COIE DC that I have yet to read, so I've been going back to those where time, money, and availability allow, and I've been really enjoying that. So there's always that option, I suppose, but it's hard to shake the feeling of being a cane-shaking, "get offa my lawn," grumpy old fan while dwelling in the past like that.

abuddah

If I produce a comic book podcast, of course I walk up and talk to Dan Didio and ask him on my show! You have Shane, Murd and Pant, all huge DC fans who've seen a steep decline in the amount of titles they read. Bring Dan on, let him do his DC pitch, ask him some follow up questions and then in a frank but cordial discussion, tell him what you're looking for from DC comics to get your buying dollar.

John_Steed

@abuddah : congrats to the post of the day - AWESOME B-)

ChrisBeckett

Finally, I can crawl back into the light.



Thank you for plucking me from the cracks, Pants.

chris

CaptShazam

I am a DC guy and I have been catching up with most of the new 52 line in trade. Outside of most of the Bat family titles, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and World's Finest, the rest of the new 52 line has fallen flat for me. I doubt any new 52 title will reach 100 issues in its current continuity. I expect many more titles to be cancelled within the next few years. Any title that could reach 100 issues (Batman, Justice League, etc) will go through at least one major continuity reboot or the entire DC universe will be reset again.

Royal_Lantern

Not to be a complainer but I'm going to complain slightly. I love you guys and all but can we please get off of this constant negativity towards the new DCU. I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel what you're feeling or expressing that, but it just seems in a lot of episodes lately there has been complaining about not enjoying the new DCU.

I've always enjoyed listening to the show or the honesty in your reviews but also for your positive outlook on comics. If you had something negative to say, you said it and you moved on. Yes, sometimes the negative comments lasted a while for that episode and rightly so, I don't expect you guys to always be positive about everything. That would be crazy. But usually it didn't carry over from show to show. Recently that seems to be the case with the DCU talk.

I'm sorry you're not enjoying it anymore, but as you stated many people are. I have a long history reading DC and I'm still enjoying the new books. I might not be enjoying the same ones I used to before Flashpoint (ex. - The Flash), but with that said, there are titles I never thought I would like that I absolutely love (ex. - All Star Western).

There are good titles out there besides just the Bat titles (which have been consistently good), but it's starting to sound like a broken record of "I'm just not digging the new 52 other than maybe the Bat titles."

And the irony of me being negative in this post isn't lost on me, but I just wanted to say something because I felt we were hearing this same rut a lot recently.

I still love the show and I still love seeing you guys at cons and I still love hearing your opinions on things, both positive and negative. And with that said, I shall move on to brighter topics.

Chuck_Melville

Aren't we blaming the wrong people? If the New52 weren't so bad, the CGS crew wouldn't have to be complaining about them. The mere fact that a lot of people seem to be enjoying them doesn't necessarily mean that the books are really very good and the CGS crew just can't see that -- it could mean that a lot of readers are simply setting their expectations very, very low. Or are very, very accepting.

I prefer the CGS crew to be critical in their assessments, even when I don't agree with them. Keeps things honest, after all.

Royal_Lantern

And I guess maybe I didn't make myself clear. It's not the fact that they stated that they don't like the new books. That's fine. My point is to mention it so often in episodes is where it's getting tiresome for me. And maybe it's me listening to so much in a short time. I was listening to 3 episodes back to back and in all 3 episodes the new DC books were said with the same response of "just not feeling it", "not enjoying the titles", etc. Then today I started listening to the nominations episode and it was mentioned again, making 4 episodes in a short time period.

And I get the disappointment if you're not liking it when you used to like DC, but to consistently dwell on it when there are so many better things to talk about just seems tiresome...especially since I always saw the CGS guys as being overall positive.

Personally I don't agree that they are bad. To me they are just like DC or Marvel generally is. Some books are great, some books are okay, and some books are bad. And I don't see it as me having lower standards for them.


On a happier topic, in this episode it was also pondered what DC title or creator we might see in an artist edition. While these might not be possible I would finally break down and buy an artist edition if there was one done on George Perez Teen Titans, Neal Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow, or one just focused on Crisis on Infinite Earths. My head would explode and I would eagerly purchase them.

Chuck_Melville

Royal_Lantern said:

And I guess maybe I didn't make myself clear. It's not the fact that they stated that they don't like the new books. That's fine. My point is to mention it so often in episodes is where it's getting tiresome for me. And maybe it's me listening to so much in a short time. I was listening to 3 episodes back to back and in all 3 episodes the new DC books were said with the same response of "just not feeling it", "not enjoying the titles", etc. Then today I started listening to the nominations episode and it was mentioned again, making 4 episodes in a short time period.

And I get the disappointment if you're not liking it when you used to like DC, but to consistently dwell on it when there are so many better things to talk about just seems tiresome...especially since I always saw the CGS guys as being overall positive.

Personally I don't agree that they are bad. To me they are just like DC or Marvel generally is. Some books are great, some books are okay, and some books are bad. And I don't see it as me having lower standards for them.

Frankly, I don't see how it can be avoided, unless they simply don't talk about DC at all.

The problems are there, the CGS gang see them and their job is to comment on the books, good or ill. They're not all reacting negatively to the various series -- if anything, I think they're a lot kinder to the overall New52 than I would be -- but they're calling them as they see them, and they see problems. And if they can't call them at all, then the shows will only be about ten minutes each.

The show is largely about the CGS crews reactions, reviews, assessments and opinions of the comics they read each month. If those come off negative, well, remember that the show is not specifically a cheerleading show for any one publisher. The guys are just being honest and forthcoming about what they like, what they want to see, and what they wind up getting, and that's what the show is about. The blame is not in that they are complaining so much about the lack of magic in DC's New52, but that they feel they have cause to mention it at all.

Royal_Lantern

I get that, and I have been listening to the show for a while (since episode 600 here and there, and every episode since 700). And I'm certainly not saying for them not to express their opinions. If they don't like something that is fine. It just seemed like lately there has been a rut of being down on DC that has been repeated in many episodes. And that really was my only point was that it doesn't need to be stated so many times.

If you drop a book because you're not enjoying it, that's cool to say so. I get that. It just seems weird to always be down on a company's entire line of books when there might be ones out there that you would like but are not reading.

And you're right, not everyone has been negative on the show about the entire DC. Jamie has been overall positive about DC.

I just felt the need to comment after hearing the negativity so many episodes together, because to me that is not what CGS has been about. they ave always in the ast stated their piece about the bad, and then focused on the good. Maybe I picked the wrong episodes to listen to in a chunk. I can take the blame for that.

alienal

Well, I'll agree with Royal Lantern in that the negative mentions about New52 DC is maybe a bit too much. However I think the main reason that Pants and Shane mention it so much is that they are so surprised at themselves that they don't like the new direction. They're wondering if something is wrong with them. So think of it as kind of an group-psycho-analysis of why they don't like the New52 rather than it being negativity against DC. Anyway, I just finished the episode and I enjoyed it. Happy Belated Birthday to Chris, and I'm looking forward to the next one.