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Episode 1331 Talkback: Off the Racks - Threshold #1, X-Factor #250, Star Wars #1
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It's time for another round of Off the Rack reviews as we cover Threshold #1 from DC, X-Factor #250 from Marvel and Star Wars #1 from Dark Horse. We've also got an impassioned rant from Jamie regarding DC's WTF certified books (adult language alert). (1:16:09)
Listen here.
Listen here.
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To preface, I have listened to CGS for 4 years and I love the show and the guys. And yes Jamie's rant was very funny but as of late they are turning into grumpy old men.
First of all, of course its just a promotion, a gimmick to get people to buy more comics. DC is in the business of selling comics. And they will use any idea they feel will bring them more readers and more money. Obviously everyone knows that is what they are trying to do, I'm not saying anything close to revolutionary here but it hasn't even come out yet and the criticism had commenced. The prevailing attitude by Jamie and others is "i'm not falling for it, you can't make me buy it" and that is fine but at least wait for it to come out first to see if it succeeds. Its just nonsensical to base your criticism exclusively on the fact that it is a gimmick considering the industry. Most crossovers unless they originate organically from the writers like Rotworld are gimmicks to get people to buy more comic books, albeit with the hope that they are anchored by a well written story. One could even argue that a creative team change on a book is just a gimmick. I don't want to litter this post with Godfather logic but "its not personal, its business", is the thought process behind changing creators. The publisher wants a better book that sells more.
And since when have the guys become Helen Lovejoy and wanted everyone to think about the children? I don't have children but it seems simple, if you don't want your kids to read comics with curse words then don't buy those comics for your kids. If they want to know what "WTF" stands for just tell them its a phrase used by adults. These days though, I'm sure most kids have already heard various curse words. And we don't know, maybe Murd is correct and DC isn't interested in marketing to children. Actually that is a reasonable assumption to make concerning all of their titles, maybe they are striving to become the darker, gritty company. It certainly makes sense given the story lines currently being written by their premiere talent like Snyder. Batman, without question, is an adult book.
My last point is obviously all of the publishers have ideas, promotions and gimmicks that fall onto various points of the spectrum between exceptional and shit but that certainly won't stop them from trying new ones no matter how seemingly ridiculous. You never know until they actually come out which ones will create meteoric splashes or forgotten ripples. Personally I'm going to give DC the benefit of the doubt considering their current ability to recognize premiere talent. I feel that Scott Snyder and Jeff Lemire are the best writers the industry has to offer right now and judging by the amount of work DC is handing them it certainly seems like DC is content to rest the company on their shoulders.
The length of this post is obscene. Maybe I'm just a DC apologist or maybe I just wanted to put my dick on the table and give Jamie my middle finger Wolverine style.
Matthew
P.S. I cracked up when Jamie said they should rebrand "All-Star Fucking Superman"
M
One of your all-time great rants, sir, right up there with wanting to kick John de Lancie in the nuts. It helps that I agree, of course, that this is just a ridiculous attempt to look hip and edgy (and, of course, calling attention to yourself trying to be hip and edgy is the surest way to make sure you are neither), but still, entertaining as hell to listen to.
Translation - Yeah I Hate All These Abbreviations. It Does My Head In!!!
Seriously though I agree with VKMarion, I think the gatefold covers is a good idea. A standard marketing ploy to bring in buyers. The whole wtf is just unnecasary and childish. I'll be picking up only one extra book from DC this month and that's the last DC Universe Presents. Although that's not because of the wtf-effect.
Quite correct about the fact that not-knowing what will happen is part of enjoying any story, in any medium.
The WTF initiative will only counter-act against this, like anti-matter.
Literally spoiling the story surprises with a messy cosmic goo of marketing desperation.
I've been enjoying Action Comics, Swamp Thing, Batman, Justice League, Aquaman...
And the H'el on Earth crossover!
Which no one else seems to be enjoying.
Superboy #16 was a brilliant action-filled romp featuring the Justice League as well!
However, the editors at DC seem like they are indecisively floundering about, coming up with these WTF ideas and shoving them into the creators faces.
Interrupting their creative processes, getting in the way of the story-plans.
Editors are supposed to edit what the creators give them, not enforce rigid agendas like a Stalinist committee.
I just hope I can keep enjoying the comic-books that I'm buying from DC...
or else, you know, there's always loads of other stuff to spend my Sterling Dollars on...
(i.e. There's always more Lego Star Wars kits to build...)
This isn't about being "old" or too sensitive or whatever; this is about taste and good manners (or lack thereof). I read Watchmen when I was 12. I think coarse language (and violence, and sex) can obviously be used to great purpose in literature, art, and advertising of all sorts. But there has to be a point to it. Saying (or indicating) the F-word on all your covers is just poor form. I couldn't believe it when I first saw this news story. I didn't think DC would just be so cavalier about something so "shocking" and petty. It's like they don't even realize how bad it makes them look; all they want is the gimmick.
My specific problem is how DC in particular has gotten so casual with their shock-value gimmickery. Batman is impaled clear through his chest with a serrated blade at the end of one issue... then in the next issue the wound doesn't really even matter. The Joker (who sliced his face off for no apparent reason) has a tapestry of skins sewn together... but it's on the page for one panel and has no real meaning. And everyone can sense how much certain aspects of the New 52 have recalled the grim'n'gritty Image stuff of 20 years ago. Now we have a "WTF" month.
To put all this in context, I think you could say these are all minor things. The world isn't going to end because of them. But things like this are just little incremental upticks of coarseness in culture, and I don't think taking issue with them is necessarily a trait of "old men who don't know any better" or whatever stereotype might come to mind. I'm not religious, but I don't think morality is necessarily a bad thing (as redundant as that is to say; it seems like these days any allusion to morality gets instantly dismissed, and that in and of itself says a lot about how coarse and "kneejerk" we've become). "WTF" month just strikes me as blatantly petty, immoral, wrong, and--above all else--stupid and desperate. When I saw the news I just had to think, "Wow, DC would risk alienating/annoying their readership JUST to put forth something so petty as 'WTF'?" Sure, many kids who will happen to see these covers will probably know what the F-word is, but that doesn't mean we should pander to coarseness and trendy stupidity. Likewise, most 12-year-olds probably know how sex works, but that doesn't mean it'd be okay for tween programming to depict sex acts.
Comics companies have had stupid gimmicks before, sure. But that doesn't justify this one. Precedence of bad behavior doesn't mean that bad behavior is okay.
Oh well. I DO think the gatefold surprise covers will be kinda cool.
2. I'm surprised DC aren't putting those musical greeting card gizmos in the covers so when you open them up a voice shouts "What the BEEP?!?"
Matthew
:-h
I have been a listener for years and recently reread DCs Wed. Comics. Does anyone remember the episode where Peter played back another podcast talking shit on CGS over Wed. Comics? I wish I knew what episode that was.
Hey! Nothing to be sorry about! I was just having a little bit of fun. :)
http://gifb.in/qNsV
I love when I get a good Muttley laugh going.
chris
Anyway, this "WTF Branded" gimmick that DC is doing for April's books is just that: a gimmick. Is this going to boost sales of those books that aren't selling well? Not all, but maybe a few. I'm only hoping this doesn't hurt the books that are telling good stories for the sake of going along with the sales gimmick.
I personally don't think it's a good gimmick, but we live in an age in the industry where only money matters. To your complaint, Jamie, good stories don't matter at DC Comics anymore. Unless your name is Geoff Johns, Scott Snyder, Grant Morrison, or Jeff Lemiere, your story has to correlate with the plot points that are set in stone by the DC hierarchy. If the story doesn't, then you're off the book. They'll still take a look at other pitches for other characters, but they have to be in line with what DC wants. I could go on and on with my rant about how DC has changed and not for the better, but that could take a long, long time to go through.