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Orson Scott Card writing Superman? And a controversy?

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  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,748
    edited February 2013
    <

    SF author David Gerrold writes to DC to suggest they instead hire a gay writer to write Superman -- and offers his own services in that regard.

    robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/02/gay-sci-fi-author-asks-dc-for-balance-offers-to-write-superman/

    One of the commenters suggests also getting Phil Jimenez to draw the story.

    And while they're at it, they can get Jose Villarrubia to color it.

    Frankly, if marriage as an institution is no longer resting primarily on the biological foundation of reproduction, but is now just a container for the granting of certain rights, there is absolutely no reason to prevent ANYONE from sharing a household and certain rights, even siblings. So give the word "marriage" back the individual (not the church - the individual), and let the government grant Domestic Partnerships to everyone who wants to share a residence on an ongoing basis.

    I agree with the principle of what you're saying, but when you say give marriage “back to the individual,” it never was in the hands of the individual. Since its beginnings marriage has always been defined by the government and the church, and often they were one and the same. I think that’s part of the reason the religious right feel so threatened by marriage equality legislature; it takes away their power to define a huge aspect of our culture.
  • Looks like this is starting to affect the film version of Ender's Game.

    The Hollywood Reporter
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited February 2013
    tazmaniak said:

    Looks like this is starting to affect the film version of Ender's Game.

    The Hollywood Reporter

    Give someone enough rope & they'll eventually hang himself/herself.

    This is the kind of PR nightmare sports teams normally fear with some of their athletes. I think about how much Belichick corals his players to prevent this type of PR backlash that ultimately comes back to the orangization.

    As for the definition of "marriage" I always understood it to be a union. Two people, more then 1 ingredient in a recipe, etc. it sounds very narrow-minded to pick & choice what definition someone is willing to accept.

    I'm kind of glad this is happening to Card. Actions & words have consequences...some times people need a reminder.

    M
  • Matt said:



    I'm kind of glad this is happening to Card. Actions & words have consequences...some times people need a reminder.

    M

    People need a reminder to what? Never disagree with the majority? Never say anything controversial? It's so depressing to find that persons of all ideological stripes take such easy pleasure in knuckling under those who would dare to not conform.

    It's no different than when openly gay persons or people interested in Communism or anyone else were drummed out of the public square 40 or 50 years ago for saying what they really believed. And don't tell me it's because Card's views are dangerous or whatever else, because that's ALWAYS the reason the majority gives for silencing people.

    Christopher Hitchens used to say vile things about my faith. He vilified me as a religious person, blamed me and my beliefs for millions of deaths, assaulted my motives, and insisted my thinking should play no role in public life. And you know what? I read the man's books, and listened to his arguments, and I'm proud to live in a society where he was free to say and think what he liked.

    You can't say you're for freedom of speech, thought and conscience and then seek to levy punishment beyond your own disagreement and non-participation on those who voice contrary opinions, guys. You just can't. It's the scandal of our time, this repulsive, filthy political correctness, and I'll speak out against it at every turn.

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited February 2013

    Matt said:



    I'm kind of glad this is happening to Card. Actions & words have consequences...some times people need a reminder.

    M

    People need a reminder to what? Never disagree with the majority? Never say anything controversial? It's so depressing to find that persons of all ideological stripes take such easy pleasure in knuckling under those who would dare to not conform.

    It's no different than when openly gay persons or people interested in Communism or anyone else were drummed out of the public square 40 or 50 years ago for saying what they really believed. And don't tell me it's because Card's views are dangerous or whatever else, because that's ALWAYS the reason the majority gives for silencing people.

    Christopher Hitchens used to say vile things about my faith. He vilified me as a religious person, blamed me and my beliefs for millions of deaths, assaulted my motives, and insisted my thinking should play no role in public life. And you know what? I read the man's books, and listened to his arguments, and I'm proud to live in a society where he was free to say and think what he liked.

    You can't say you're for freedom of speech, thought and conscience and then seek to levy punishment beyond your own disagreement and non-participation on those who voice contrary opinions, guys. You just can't. It's the scandal of our time, this repulsive, filthy political correctness, and I'll speak out against it at every turn.

    Actually, I normally disagree with the majority. For all I know, the "majority" is composed of mostly people conforming so they do not stand out and potentially be ostracized. I think political-correctness has gone to the complete other side of the spectrum to the point where it is nearly a farce.

    I am FOR freedom of speech, and actually prefer to live under my own structured guidelines then those set by others. I am, however, also aware that when I say or do something (majority or not), there is going to be a potential equal and opposite reaction. It causes me to make sure I think about what I am going to say/do, how it will be conveyed, and what my conviction is to back up my action.

    All I am saying is, (example) people will say things like "that's retarded" and even though the intent might not be to insult a specific group of people, there is going to be some type of backlash. Just like with comics, things DO have a way of coming back to haunt you later. If those people aren't afraid of the backlash, then there is nothing to worry about.

    I'm looking at Card as more of the sacrificial goat for people to be more aware of what they say/do and the possible fallouts (depending on the person's career), then trying to strictly point out Card for what he said. I wasn't going to see his movie OR read Superman regardless.

    M
  • John_SteedJohn_Steed Posts: 2,087


    ........

    No one is saying they will silence him. All of the comments I have read have been "He doesn't get my money."

    And that is how it is supposed to work.

    Agreed. And this was pretty obvious starting with the very first page of this thread....
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Matt said:



    I'm kind of glad this is happening to Card. Actions & words have consequences...some times people need a reminder.

    M

    People need a reminder to what? Never disagree with the majority? Never say anything controversial? It's so depressing to find that persons of all ideological stripes take such easy pleasure in knuckling under those who would dare to not conform.

    It's no different than when openly gay persons or people interested in Communism or anyone else were drummed out of the public square 40 or 50 years ago for saying what they really believed. And don't tell me it's because Card's views are dangerous or whatever else, because that's ALWAYS the reason the majority gives for silencing people.

    Christopher Hitchens used to say vile things about my faith. He vilified me as a religious person, blamed me and my beliefs for millions of deaths, assaulted my motives, and insisted my thinking should play no role in public life. And you know what? I read the man's books, and listened to his arguments, and I'm proud to live in a society where he was free to say and think what he liked.

    You can't say you're for freedom of speech, thought and conscience and then seek to levy punishment beyond your own disagreement and non-participation on those who voice contrary opinions, guys. You just can't. It's the scandal of our time, this repulsive, filthy political correctness, and I'll speak out against it at every turn.

    Although I disagree with the post, I think someone wrongly labeled this "Off Topic." It was as one topic as the rest of the posts.

    M
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    To echo the sentiments on here, I'm not trying to silence Card from earning a living, but that doesn't mean I have to support him.

  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    Torchsong said:

    To echo the sentiments on here, I'm not trying to silence Card from earning a living, but that doesn't mean I have to support him.

    Exactly. There's a world of difference between censoring someone and not supporting their work.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    Chris Sprouse, who had been slated to draw the Card story for the new Superman title, has withdrawn from the project, causing DC to push the story back to a different issue.

    comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44109

    Well, nuts. Now I wish I had ordered the book.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    Say what you will about him. Agree or disagree. But I for one respect his right to believe what he does.

    We live in a world of entertainers, creators, and politicians who will say anything to please anyone, and have no real core beliefs. They seek approval, favors, and fame in espousing the ideas that will appease the largest population one day, and are chasing another segment of the population the next. I am glad he is who he is, and won't change for anyone's popularity contest.

    I would rather have a one Orson Scott Cards than a million chameleons.
  • kgforce said:

    I'm a right-wing Christian conservative. I try to ignore actors/artists/directors/authors politics. Because if I didn't, my entertainment consumption would drop by 95%.

    If the guy can write a good Superman story, then let him be. I think it is stupid for people to try and have him removed from the book because of his political views.

    I am right there with you pal! If I boycotted everything produced by liberals I disagree with, I would be left with Steven Baldwin, John Voigt, and Dennis Miller. Not a very entertaining evening.

    :)
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    I'm about as liberal as they come and I've always found Dennis Miller funny. A bit curmudgeonly in his old age, but still quick with the funny stuff.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2013
    Tonebone said:

    Say what you will about him. Agree or disagree. But I for one respect his right to believe what he does.

    We live in a world of entertainers, creators, and politicians who will say anything to please anyone, and have no real core beliefs. They seek approval, favors, and fame in espousing the ideas that will appease the largest population one day, and are chasing another segment of the population the next. I am glad he is who he is, and won't change for anyone's popularity contest.

    I would rather have a one Orson Scott Cards than a million chameleons.

    How, in the flying F***, is my comment off-topic? I think every time someone clicks that button, it should be accompanied by your name, address, and last four digits of your SS#.

  • ........

    No one is saying they will silence him. All of the comments I have read have been "He doesn't get my money."

    And that is how it is supposed to work.

    Agreed. And this was pretty obvious starting with the very first page of this thread....
    Yes, no one HERE is saying anything other than that, but this "controversy" all started when a group actively petitioned DC to FIRE him.

    https://allout.org/en/actions/dccomics-osc

    I think that's what many people, including myself, were referencing. I think just about everyone agrees with the freedom to not give someone their money, if they disagree with that person.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Tonebone said:

    How, in the flying F***, is my comment off-topic? I think every time someone clicks that button, it should be accompanied by your name, address, and last four digits of your SS#.

    Must. Fight. Urge. To. Click. "Off-Topic". Just. For. Larfs.
  • WetRats said:

    Tonebone said:

    How, in the flying F***, is my comment off-topic? I think every time someone clicks that button, it should be accompanied by your name, address, and last four digits of your SS#.

    Must. Fight. Urge. To. Click. "Off-Topic". Just. For. Larfs.
    Fight it... FIGHT IT!!!!
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited March 2013
    Tonebone said:

    Tonebone said:

    Say what you will about him. Agree or disagree. But I for one respect his right to believe what he does.

    We live in a world of entertainers, creators, and politicians who will say anything to please anyone, and have no real core beliefs. They seek approval, favors, and fame in espousing the ideas that will appease the largest population one day, and are chasing another segment of the population the next. I am glad he is who he is, and won't change for anyone's popularity contest.

    I would rather have a one Orson Scott Cards than a million chameleons.

    How, in the flying F***, is my comment off-topic? I think every time someone clicks that button, it should be accompanied by your name, address, and last four digits of your SS#.
    Welcome to one of my fights...though mine mostly involves people misusing 'disagree' and 'dislike'. Someone can dislike a fact, but they would disagree with an opinion.

    I wish people would at least comment on why they disagrees, agrees, or feel something is off topic. I mean, this IS a forum. I don't need everyone to agree with me (hell, I don't need everyone to like me either), but I'd enjoy having a conversation about the differences of opinions. Its virtually impossible when they're no comments added along with the "critic icon."

    M
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Tonebone said:


    ........

    No one is saying they will silence him. All of the comments I have read have been "He doesn't get my money."

    And that is how it is supposed to work.

    Agreed. And this was pretty obvious starting with the very first page of this thread....
    Yes, no one HERE is saying anything other than that, but this "controversy" all started when a group actively petitioned DC to FIRE him.

    https://allout.org/en/actions/dccomics-osc

    I think that's what many people, including myself, were referencing. I think just about everyone agrees with the freedom to not give someone their money, if they disagree with that person.
    This is one of those things I find increasingly interesting. I think people forget that one person's civil rights end where another person's begins. I do not like the Kardashians, "reality" tv shows, & Chelsea Handler to name a few. SO, rather than sign any petition to get them off TV and out of entertainment, I just don't give them none of my time and/or money. I understand there are people who like one or all of those things. I could easily be in the minority of people who don't like them, but that doesn't mean it should become my mission to prevent everyone from enjoying their "entertainment."

    It's that simple.

    Although I DO agree that people should be able to voice their opinion, despite it going against the grain (I encourage more people to do so), I don't think people should not realize there are repercussions for that opinion. In Card's case, it cause a boycott of his work in DC (and elsewhere), which could lead to his firing. This did not come about from any petition, but just from people not buying a product (which I think would impact a company more than being sent a petition signed by a lot of people.)

    People should voice their own opinion and beliefs, BUT also be aware that there can be a backlash from it. That should not deter people from voicing their opinions.

    M
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    Tonebone said:


    How, in the flying F***, is my comment off-topic? I think every time someone clicks that button, it should be accompanied by your name, address, and last four digits of your SS#.

    I have this theory that all of the Off Topic clicks lately are being done by the same person, and that he or she has no idea what that phrase actually means.

  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794

    Tonebone said:


    How, in the flying F***, is my comment off-topic? I think every time someone clicks that button, it should be accompanied by your name, address, and last four digits of your SS#.

    I have this theory that all of the Off Topic clicks lately are being done by the same person, and that he or she has no idea what that phrase actually means.

    AND YOU'LL NEVER STOP ME, YOU BIG RED CHEESE!!!

    /No it isn't me...I just wanted to invoke some Sivana into the mix.
    //Now THAT'S being off-topic!
  • As long as his writing style has little to do with his opinions on the LGBT community, i don't think people should be that mad about it.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003

    As long as his writing style has little to do with his opinions on the LGBT community, i don't think people should be that mad about it.

    I just don't want to support a writer who actively supports a hate organization.

  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314

    As long as his writing style has little to do with his opinions on the LGBT community, i don't think people should be that mad about it.

    I just don't want to support a writer who actively supports a hate organization.
    Agreed.

    You can hate whoever you want.

    You can talk about your hate as much as you want.

    But when you take action against the objects of your hate, you've crossed the line.

    I've read an enjoyed much of Card's work over the years, I've met and liked him, but when he joined the board of the National Organization for Marriage, he lost me as a fan and a reader.
  • As long as his writing style has little to do with his opinions on the LGBT community, i don't think people should be that mad about it.

    I just don't want to support a writer who actively supports a hate organization.

    Neither do I, I just prefer to support the art than support the artist.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884

    As long as his writing style has little to do with his opinions on the LGBT community, i don't think people should be that mad about it.

    I just don't want to support a writer who actively supports a hate organization.

    Neither do I, I just prefer to support the art than support the artist.
    Sure. But at the same time, the art is coming from the artist. Even if, say, a Superman story that has nothing to do with civil rights is what is coming from Card's imagination, it is still nothing I am interested in.

    Because it is coming from that imagination. The same imagination that some seriously fearful and hateful things have come from, and been publicly expressed from. So, as a consumer, I have no interest in a Superman story that starts in the place.
  • David_D said:

    As long as his writing style has little to do with his opinions on the LGBT community, i don't think people should be that mad about it.

    I just don't want to support a writer who actively supports a hate organization.

    Neither do I, I just prefer to support the art than support the artist.
    Sure. But at the same time, the art is coming from the artist. Even if, say, a Superman story that has nothing to do with civil rights is what is coming from Card's imagination, it is still nothing I am interested in.

    Because it is coming from that imagination. The same imagination that some seriously fearful and hateful things have come from, and been publicly expressed from. So, as a consumer, I have no interest in a Superman story that starts in the place.
    Which is why, even if i support the art, i wont buy it. I just wont be mad until he makes superman into someone spewing out homophobic slurs.

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