The Batman Family of Comics Thread (Current Spoilers)
Planeis
Posts: 980
Hey. I'm starting this thread and maybe a couple similar threads because it seems like there is not a good place to discuss a comic series on the boards. For instance, we have a "Days of Future Past" thread so we all know if we want to say something about the movie, or something about the older movies, thats the place to go right now. But if you want to talk about the latest Batman or Robin or Batgirl or whatever I feel like there's not a good place to go. I think for the purposes of discussion it should be assumed that this thread will contain spoilers, BUT I think we would all appreciate some spoiler warnings. So if someone reads the latest issue of Batman the day it comes out and wants to talk about... give a warning and maybe some space before you spoil the heck out of it. Not everyone has time to read their comics the minute they come out.
Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions... feel free to state them here.
Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions... feel free to state them here.
Comments
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Story:
It was a good issue… even if it is wildly predictable. It starts with the entire Bat family (except Batwoman, but maybe she doesn’t count) seated around a table. Nightwing, Tim Drake (IF THAT IS HIS REAL NAME), Damien, Batgirl, Jason all have their faces covered in bandages and we are led to believe they have all had their faces ripped off. But c’mon, I think we ALL knew that wasn’t going to happen. But still, I have to admit there was a very small part of me that wondered how they were all going to get out of this. Also… something awful has happened to Alfred. Makes me wish he would retire.
Anyway, of course they do escape and Batman chases Joker through the caves, until they confront each other on the edge of what appears to be a bottomless pit. As soon as I fall that pit I thought “let me guess… Joker accidentally falls and we’re led to believe he’s dead” which is exactly what happens and OF COURSE HE’S NOT DEAD, HE’S THE FREAKING JOKER.
In the end, Bruce invites everyone over to talk about what happened… and they all bail out on him. Kinda sad. I’m not really clear why they’re meant to have done that.
Good issue.. if a little predictable. I really do think Alfred should kinda retire. It makes me sad to see him get hurt. I mean sheesh, how old is this guy? Bruce should let him retire, let him live in the Manor if he wants, but get a different person or two to run the household. Poor Alfred must be working himself to the bone to keep the house in order and take care of Bruce. It could lead to some interesting stories anyway.
How does DC Comics go back from whats happened with the Joker here?
Art:
Well… the art is good, but its not exactly pretty. I was a little confused at first where they were supposed to be. It didn’t really look like the caves to me, looked like they were surrounded by huge piles of mud or something. Especially with all the flies buzzing around. Sometimes the Joker’s face looked REALLY gross… which I suppose is something.
Cover Art: Bleh. Nothing special at all. Whole lot of nothing really and doesn’t relate to any real scene in the comic. Thought they should have had something special for the end of what has been a pretty big crossover event for the best selling comic in the company.
Anyway, glad the crossover is over and glad the whole return of the joker storyline is over, didn’t like all the extreme violence in this series. What did you all think?
I'm looking forward to the Death of the Family storyline.
Of the "Big Three" I think that Batman (and his family) have been affected the least, despite a LOT of changes and inconsistencies. It's still Bruce Wayne under the cowl, he's still grim, knows more than you, and will always win because he is Batman. The changes to the Superman and Wonder Woman worlds have, IMHO, been more substantial.
While I was sat to see Steph's title end, Gail Simone has done a great job bringing Babs back, and I've really enjoyed Batwoman as well, which surprised me as I didn't care for the character when she showed up in 52. Red Hood and the Outlaws has always been top of the stack for me, and a lot of that has to do with "anti-hero" Jason. As to Batman's own titles I'm reading, I think Snyder's done a great job on the Batman book. The Dark Knight has been a mess, but a beautiful mess...I'm hoping Ethan Van Sciver can bring it back to the fold. Detective has also been a good, solid read.
There are continuity and character issues that need to be addressed, sure. The Robin mess is just that...a mess...but I remain confident it'll work itself out. Like many have said, I'd like to see Bruce get more screen (panel) time.
Sounds like the real "Death of the Family" is that nobody fully trusts Batman anymore. Holy "Tower of Babel", Batman! :) I think it'll help flesh out Batman more as a character. For too long the man has been almost godlike - Snyder punched a hole in the armor. He's got to rebuild trust. That's a story I wouldn't mind reading.
How strong is Alfred's spirit and resolve in order to not just survive some of the things he's been through, but to recover from it and just go through it all again in some form or another? Yes, yes, yes.
I felt robbed by this issue. All these cross-overs and months of story building to end in a very standard boring way. I was led to believe something significant was going to happen here but I feel that nothing did.
As with all the issues of Batman Inc., I thought it was a great issue. Strong storytelling, and Chris Burnham is the real deal. I did think it was strange, in this and last issue, that a few pages were by a different artist. They were not as strong, and I noticed in particular in today's issue that the whole scene by the other artist felt a little tangental (it was what Red Robin was doing) and the sort of thing that could almost have been cut. Or maybe was added later? Like maybe there was a late decision about whether or not Red Robin would be in the issue? Just a guess.
If Damien is dead for good then that is a waste. I've loved Damien. I feel like he has done a great job of shaking things up and he was fun to read. It does seem like- similar to how many of the Avengers characters Bendis put back where he found them at the end of his long run- that Morrison is doing away with Damien just in time for him to wrap up his six years on Batman. I don't know whether that is him not wanting to stick other writers with Damien, or not wanting to have to share Damien with other writers (and I suppose, at the end of the day, it is editorials decision, not his, as he doesn't own him) but if this death sticks I think it is a waste of a fun character.
Jason Todd's death happened when I was 12, and even then it felt like a gimmick (with that call-in vote, how could it not?). Damien's death could easily be seen as being equally gimmicky - not to mention easily reversible, given his grandfather's bathtub-of-choice - but I give Morrison more credit than that, since this does feel like the culmination, or at least the set up of the culmination, of the story he's been telling since Batman and Son. We've seen real growth in Damien in that time, from Morrison and others (I loved how Bryan Q. Miller used him the Steph Brown Batgirl book, for instance, which is one of the first places I remember seeing him starting to occasionally act like an actual kid), and going from stone cold killer to a kid pleading for his parents to stop fighting and who legitimately believed his mother wouldn't let him get killed, well, that's a hell of an arc, and also a powerful underscoring of the fact that Batman's world will always be tragic.
I think it also says a lot that this is a comic book death that I legitimately hope doesn't stick. But if it does, I hope we at least see how this affects everyone in Batman's world. Batman and Nightwing will be obvious places to see this, and Batgirl, too, but how about even Worlds' Finest? Damien and Helena met and bonded a few issues back, seeing as how they're half-siblings a universe removed.
Here's a question. Everyone in the DC universe knows Robin is dead. If Bruce Wayne's son is also suddenly dead at the same time won't the average person be able to make the connection?
M
I hope batman inc in itself doesn't stick because I don't want Knight gone either.
I disagree about lightening up the Dark Knight. I like the version established by Frank Miller in Year One.
M.
....I need to lie down now...
There's great potential here - post Death of the Family - to really define (or re-define) Batman and where he stands in his own title and in the DCU. He no longer has the trust of the people around him, and now he's lost his son. Yes, he'll grieve, but do you think Talia's going to forgive him anytime soon? Get ready for the daughter of the Demon to come after him in full-force...and he's got nobody to stand with him (unless of course they tie it in with the Justice League in which case Superman just comes in and wipes the floor with everyone! :) ).
I'm hoping some of the DotF fallout goes into the other books as well - Batgirl dealing with the idea that her inspiration "betrayed" her. Red Hood gloating because the old man has some flaws after all. Nightwing angry that his foster father did what he did...stuff like that.
M.
Batman has been a parent for decades. Adopted, sure. But that still made him a parent. Is the idea of his having a biological child so much different?
I would think of all characters Batman would be easier to imagine with a child than Superman or Spider-Man, as Batman has been at least a foster parents since 1940.
He was stripped the core and driven to a kind of insanity by seeing both his parents killed. He has a side gig that involves getting shot at or put in deadly situations nearly every issue. It's hard to imagine him wanting to put another kid through what he went through.
Yes, any parent can get killed at any time just crossing the street or eating a hoagie at the wrong time...but let's be fair here...Batman's really playing the odds.
Of course this also doesn't explain his penchant for putting young boys in brightly colored outfits and bringing them in as a side gig that involves getting shot at or put in deadly situations nearly every issue. :) CPS would have his ass in a sling in a New York minute.
So yes...I have no problem picturing him being a parent. He just shouldn't be one.
Damien probably did have some level of violence in his upbringing, but his parents were violently killed putting him on the same path. If Batman could have a kid, then why not marry him off?
Its essentially splitting hairs, but I see Batman looking at his biological son as a way to move past the cowl & cave, as opposed to another soldier in his war on crime. Plus, with the exception of Drake (who still had at least his father), when I was reading Batman and A Robin, they were already in their late teens.
M
I feel cheated. I cannot afford to buy all the Bat books, and for a big event to happen in a side-story to the main title feels just wrong.
Moreover, we've seen Robins die before. And Batman has enough issues already, who wants to read about him mourning his son, as well as his parents?
Also, where is the continuity in the New 52 Universe?
At what point after the Death of the Family story does the events of the entire Batman Inc arc take place?
Or are they happening at the same time?
So the Bat Family were coming up against Joker and fighting Leviathan/Talia simultaneously?
As well as Batman going off on adventures with the Justice League in Throne of Atlantis and with them in the Fortress of Solitude in the H'el On Earth story in the Superman titles.
Confusing!
There needs to be a timeline in DC New 52 books so we know when things are happening.
I've really enjoyed Morrison's run on Action Comics - which hasn't really been in continuity with the other Superman title, although not as out of sync as Batman Inc appears to be from Synder's Batman.
It seems like they should have all the different Bat books take place on a different version of Earth.
So Synder's Batman could be on Earth-1, and Morrison's Batman Inc could be on Earth-3, and Dark Knight could be on Earth-10, etc.
That way the continuity of one book wouldn't be defined by what is happening in the other books with the same character, and writers and artists could tell the story they want to tell, instead of being micro-managed by DC editors - which is what seems to be happening.