Episode 1347 Talkback: A Hodgepodge
Pants
Posts: 567
After a health update from Jamie we get into some spoilery discussion on the finales of Green Lantern the Animated Series and Young Justice: Invasion. Also Pants' journey into Dr. Who continues and kicks off a long conversation about the show and we answer a listener question about what 80's Avengers and DC New 52 books to suggest. (1:15:10)
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Matthew
But rest assured, @Pants, there are plenty of us Whovians on this forum who are plenty happy to talk about the show with you (and Jamie and Shane and anyone else!). And check out the Doctor Who thread in the Off Topic forum (carefully, as it might get a little spoilery for you at times) for lots of good Who talk and suggestions for both the new and original series.
Yellow Entity: Has been seen at least twice. Had not yet been refined to a power ring
Black Lanterns: As it was pointed out (and because it' a kiddy show) Aya didn't kill any living beings so there were none to resurrect
I'm sure they were ready to introduce all the lantern corp over time but as stated, they had the rug pulled out from under them at the last hour. It's not an argument of poor storytelling, it's CN, it's the failure of the GL movie, it's Mattel.
I can't disagree more with Jamie about both the Young Justice and Green Lantern endings. Young Justice ends with a cliffhanger and I'm not holding my breath that we will ever see another Young Justice show or animated movie. If it happens great but I can't see it. The real ending was when the JL handed the keys to the Watchtower over to the team.
Green Lantern had a great, emotional ending. It would have been cool to see the other colors show up but it wasn't needed. The entire show has been about Razor and his character arc. The ending, when he came to realize that he now had hope for the future, and attempting to find Aya was heartfelt, emotional and most of all earned (unlike Sinestro and the Yellow Ring in the movie). The Blue Ring made me so happy.
GL TAS ends at 26 eps, only half of the # required for syndication. YJ ends with 46, a very odd number which is probably due to its bizarre scheduling. I'll concede YJ probably had a better sense this could be the end but if you watched, you know Greg Weisman plays the (way) too long plotting game.
As for Finch's artwork on JL Dark, it turns out he's trying out a computer enhanced technique:
newsarama.com/comics/david-finch-justice-league-america-3d-art.html
and as for Jack Knight Starman, do not hold your breath. His creator, James Robinson, said on a recent Comic Vine podcast that Jack is staying retired and DC is honoring his request.
Also, put me in the camp that just FF'd through the Dr. Who talk.
Jamie, I think your frustration with the GL ending doesn't make sense. You're yelling for a different story than the one being presented to its intended 7 year old audience.
Shane says they made the final episode knowing it was the end of the series? Its been my experience that these things are made wayyy before they know if a show is coming back or not.
It's sort of like when Julian Lytle was yelling about Marvel becoming too predictable for his eyes, and Murd's frustration over the over-simplification of the Anti Monitor in the animated GL.
This isn't about giving us older viewers/comic readers easter eggs, it's about telling their Y7 story the way they see fit.
It's one thing for uneducated fans making complaints like this, but frankly you guys have been at covering this stuff far too long to have these kind of uninformed complaints .
I don't see how the complaint of an adult fan that this show didn't work for them is somehow uninformed. Not when we all are educated enough to know that guys like Jamie and Shane are absolutely part of the audience a multi-quadrant show like this is aimed towards.
Now does that mean that all the story choices the producers make should be only aimed at the established, older comics fans? Of course not. And that is as true for a Green Lantern cartoon as it is for a Walking Dead show. They should serve what they are making first and foremost. But let's not pretend that this show is only made for the seven year olds and the comics fans (who this show was directly promoted to on the con circuit and websites) somehow have no stake or place wanting what they want, too.
I'm not sure about the production schedule of Green Lantern, but Weisman keeps the fans in the loop regarding Young Justice's production. He and his crew starting breaking Invasion in March 2011, with the final episode being written in September 2011. The final episode was sent overseas to be animated around May 2012.
Further, the recurring explanation as to why these shows get cancelled despite big audiences of teens and older viewers is that they are produced specifically for the Y7 audience . That doesn't deny the older viewer existence , but that's not the target demo for their advertisers, who pay to reach those 7 yr old kids. That's just the way kids TV works . Again CGS has had plenty of guests who have explained these sort of production facts, but the message doesn't seem to be getting through to this podcast.
That last bit really wasn't necessary.
Might I suggest you have someone look over what you've written before you hit "Post".
The more likely scenario- especially with the prime time slot and the sort of money being spent- is that they are at least trying to go for a wider target. If they weren't, then why spend money appearing and promoting at cons? Why would the creators appear on CGS and your show? To reach all the seven year olds that listen?
A show that succeeds in pleasing (and this being chosen by) an audience of parents and children (giving the advertisers a situation where a child watching with a parent the opportunity to immediately point to a product and say 'I want that') is the ideal target. It is also a fact that in prime time adults are more often in charge of the remote than kids.
As for whether or not they knew it was the last episode- sure, they may not have known it was the very last. But they would have known it was the last one ordered. And many shows, when they know they are at the end of their pickup might not go for a big The End, but may go for something that could work as an ending.
Again- when one complains, it is because one hoped something would be better. Again, with some strong examples of past shows (such as Timm's own Batman: The Animated Series) to hold up as examples, it is so wrong for some viewers to have hoped for better?
Personally, I've very mixed feelings about Big Finish. On the one hand it's great to hear people speak the English language beautifully and it's classic Who. On the other I find the stories to be very "preachy" (especially those featuring Colin Baker).
I am very thankful that it's given McGann a place to explore his Doctor. I've enjoyed his adventures very much.
Batman The TAS was 20 years ago, and the business side of animation has changed since then. It's an outdated argument to lean on. Also GL and YJ stopped being prime time shows pretty early on in their runs.
Hell even when networks do get the Y7 numbers they want, it's still rare that any Y7 cartoons get more than 52 eps produced.
Batman The Brave and Bold did great, but it still wrapped up after only 65 eps, and now it's time for the new Batman show.
M
Based on a post you made in another thread, you know I have a rep as being an agitator (my motto: irritate, agitate, instigate...pissing the world off one person at a time), BUT I am the first person to jump into the fray to stand up for my friends.
I think the Wordballoon posts have a recurring theme. As mentioned above, I am not doubting there is some truth in Wordballoon's initial post. I think (unfortunately) there is a pattern of posting more criticism (some nitpicking) then positive feedback. That's not to say the show (and hosts) only want people posting/saying good things about the show (or hosts). In fact, some of us don't care either way. I have, however, found the friend who is mostly negative about everything and seems to mostly contribute negative comments gets more and more stifled or invited to the get-togethers less and less.
I think (and this is purely based on my own assessment) the egress stems from the different mission statements of the two shows. John seems to run his as more of a professional media outlet that holds itself accountable for the information presented. CGS is more of a hobby, friendly past time the guys enjoy doing and don't take themselves too seriously; nothing fancy, nothing professional. I think sometimes CGS gets crammed into another cookie cutter that isn't what the hosts see themselves as.
M.