Avengers #8 (Spoilers)

Hex

"But there is a problem with our world. The Builders had other, older systems that came before our system. These systems were not meant to be used in tandem."

Love that reference to how Shooter wanted to replace the Marvel U with the New Universe.
God I love Hickman. How is he doing it? Shooter's New Universe is cool again.
I wonder if the existing Starbrand in the Marvel 616 universe that came over from the New Universe during the Quasar run will come into play.

DennisCuzinski

WAIT: there is a New U connection with the current Avengers run? I consider myself the biggest New U fan in the world. I need to collect these!

Chuck_Melville

DennisCuzinski said:

WAIT: there is a New U connection with the current Avengers run? I consider myself the biggest New U fan in the world. I need to collect these!

Ongoing now in the current arc in the new Avengers book. Start with #1, but the New U connection isn't apparent until #7.

Chuck_Melville

Hex said:

Love that reference to how Shooter wanted to replace the Marvel U with the New Universe.

I don't remember anything about Shooter wanting to replace the main Marvel Universe with the New Universe. I rather doubt he had any realistic expectations of that in any rate. The whole thing was intended as part of Marvel's 25th Anniversary.

Hex

Chuck_Melville said:

I don't remember anything about Shooter wanting to replace the main Marvel Universe with the New Universe. I rather doubt he had any realistic expectations of that in any rate. The whole thing was intended as part of Marvel's 25th Anniversary.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Shooter wanted to "reboot" the Marvel Universe for the 25th Anniversary (similar to what DC has done with the New52). He couldn't generate the support, so it morphed into the New Universe.

Chuck_Melville

Hex said:

Chuck_Melville said:

I don't remember anything about Shooter wanting to replace the main Marvel Universe with the New Universe. I rather doubt he had any realistic expectations of that in any rate. The whole thing was intended as part of Marvel's 25th Anniversary.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that Shooter wanted to "reboot" the Marvel Universe for the 25th Anniversary (similar to what DC has done with the New52). He couldn't generate the support, so it morphed into the New Universe.

That might be -- though I think the reboot he had in mind was closer to DC's Crisis, where he'd be tightening the timeline up so things wouldn't be sliding further into out-of-dateedness. Adjusting Cap's history so that he'd been asleep for a half-decade instead of twenty years, moving the different heroes' origins up to the 80's instead of the sixties and removing 60's-inspired facets from the origins (such as the FF's involvement in the Race to the Moon). That sort of stuff, rather than an all-out New52-style revamp.

I recall Shooter wanting to continue with a big project to celebrate the 25th anniversary, though, so I think that the New Universe was what they went with instead; but I don't think it was a direct metamorphising or that he'd ever wanted to replace the original Marvel U.

SolitaireRose

When I talked to Shooter at the MN con a few years ago, he said the "replace the Marvel U" was a rumor from disgruntled employees. And the New Universe was ruined by corporate cost cutting.

Chuck_Melville

SolitaireRose said:

When I talked to Shooter at the MN con a few years ago, he said the "replace the Marvel U" was a rumor from disgruntled employees. And the New Universe was ruined by corporate cost cutting.

Yeah, now that story I remember. We did a few posts about it a few months ago.

WetRats

SolitaireRose said:

When I talked to Shooter at the MN con a few years ago, he said the "replace the Marvel U" was a rumor from disgruntled employees. And the New Universe was ruined by corporate cost cutting.

Disgruntled employees?

In the Shooter era?

Inconceivable!

Hex

Chuck_Melville said:

I recall Shooter wanting to continue with a big project to celebrate the 25th anniversary, though, so I think that the New Universe was what they went with instead; but I don't think it was a direct metamorphising or that he'd ever wanted to replace the original Marvel U.

That sounds a little more realistic.
Regardless, I'm happy to see the resurgence of some form of New Universe characters. Starbrand was always my favourite of the batch. Interested to see where Hickman goes with this.

ctowner1

Coincidentally, I just read Ellis' New Universal tpb, which was a reboot of the New Universe, and a good prep for the Avengers story.

e
L nny

Chuck_Melville

ctowner1 said:

Coincidentally, I just read Ellis' New Universal tpb, which was a reboot of the New Universe, and a good prep for the Avengers story.

e
L nny

If that's the one from a couple of years ago, I was dissappointed in that he didn't finish it. As I recall, it stalled in the middle of one mini-series and was cancelled, probably due to low sales.

ctowner1

Chuck_Melville said:

ctowner1 said:

Coincidentally, I just read Ellis' New Universal tpb, which was a reboot of the New Universe, and a good prep for the Avengers story.

e
L nny

If that's the one from a couple of years ago, I was dissappointed in that he didn't finish it. As I recall, it stalled in the middle of one mini-series and was cancelled, probably due to low sales.

I guess it was - I only read a TPB. It was more of a setup story than a complete story in and of itself. But it was exactly about what's been going on in Avengers.

e
L nny

DennisCuzinski

Hex said:

Chuck_Melville said:

I recall Shooter wanting to continue with a big project to celebrate the 25th anniversary, though, so I think that the New Universe was what they went with instead; but I don't think it was a direct metamorphising or that he'd ever wanted to replace the original Marvel U.

That sounds a little more realistic.
Regardless, I'm happy to see the resurgence of some form of New Universe characters. Starbrand was always my favourite of the batch. Interested to see where Hickman goes with this.

Starbrand was good, if uneven (IMHO). I really liked the character of Ken O'Connell -- he was a flawed dude and a lousy hero at times. But Shooter seemed to break his own "world outside your window" with the Old Man/Alien connection (same goes for the "other dimension" in Justice, which was ret-conned, too). When Byrne took over, he seemed to have free rein to cut loose, and it ended up a bit of a continuity mess. DP7 is still my favorite comic of all time (hence my name on this board)