Episode 1351 Talkback: Spotlight on The Avengers in the Bronze Age Part One
Pants
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With Chris Eberle as our spirit-guide, we return to our 50th Anniversary coverage of The Avengers, this time spotlighting the team in the soul-searching Seventies! Hear our thoughts on the legendary Kree/Skrull War; the Avengers/Defenders War; the staggering celestial saga of Mantis; Hawkeye and the Vision's continuing quests for self-understanding, including their love triangle with the Scarlet Witch; the wedding of Crystal and Quicksilver; and much more--so much that one episode couldn't hold it all! (1:07:33)
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Comments
I'm absolutely loving the Avengers retrospective episodes, so this was a delight to see download today. And count me among the people who enjoy a LONG episode, since it makes my day go faster. Please feel free to hit Murdonian levels of length in the future. :)
The Bronze Age is, in my opinion, the greatest period in Avengers history. I agree with Chris when he says it's where they well and truly earned the sobriquet, "Earth's Mightiest Heroes."
not sure why it's so beloved...
I remember reading that last issue and seeing all the heroes in turn being taken out and thinking that is should not be happening. The heroes are always supposed to win not get taken out or killed, especially not almost the whole team. The way he just dispatch each member with almost no effort was unbelievable to me at the time. I was use to seeing heroes getting knocked around but to read the words "Another Death..." was jaw dropping. PlusI love Cap's speech as he was battling "Mike". It reflected back to previos issues on what Cap was feeling at the time, that he was not pulling his weight in this group of superheroes.
The scope of the story and how it built up was incredible at the time. Plus I loved how Shooter added bits of humor to each issue, to have the Avengers have to take a city bus Forest Hills Garden to face the Ultimate Threat was priceless. Shooter and Pérez made a great team, great writing and great art really sold me on this story.
I didn't get to read the Kree/Skrull War until the issues were collected and reprinted in those two over oversize issues in 1983.
I have to agree with @JamieD and @Webhead about the Korvac Saga. Korvac showed up in Avengers Academy and even after all these years the Avengers still got their butt's handed to them and again it all took place in one room.
Can't wait for part two.
i didn't start reading comics until the 80's, so maybe that is why i thought korvac saga was kind of weak compared to the cinematic, large scale battles that is common place nowadays
The story arc about Quicksilver's disappearance was never really resolved in the Avengers -- Roy Thomas took that subplot over to the Fantastic Four, which he was scripting for a brief period, and gave us there the revelation that Quicksilver's unconcious body was found by Crystal and Lockjaw, who took him back to the Hidden Refuge, nursed him back to health, and started a romance which did not go down well with Johnny Storm.
Bob Brown, who drew the Avengers during the Avengers-Defenders War (and for several other issues as well) was an established pro who had done a ton of series at DC, including being one of the main artists (along with Bruno Premiani) on the original Doom Patrol (for which he also drew most of the covers), took over the art chores for Challengers Of The Unknown after Kirby's departure, drew Space Ranger, and had stints on both Superboy (with Wally Wood) and Batman in Detective Comics during the late 60's.
The Swordsman was actually made an official Avenger during the Lee-Heck days, during his original appearance, but it was a trick in order to infiltrate their ranks. His reappearance during the Englehart run was his honest attempt to go straight, an action which Cap never did accept.
The one issue with the Avengers facing off against Thanos and his quest for the Cosmic Cube was a crossover with a massive cosmic storyline that was then ongoing in the Captain Marvel book, written (with some help) and drawn by Jim Starlin.
The contest between the Kree and the Cotati for the favors of the Skrulls resulted in the Kree building one of the classic pieces of real estate of Marvel Mythology: the Blue City on the dark side of the moon. Note that they built a complete city (fully furnished, one would assume) and never moved in -- it has been a completely empty city since its construction, save for the Watcher who, knowing a good deal when he saw one, moved in sometime later.
While it's true that the Giant-Size Avengers books only had four original issue and one reprint issue, there was a new story intended for that fifth issue, written by Tony Isabella and drawn by Don Heck. It was later used to fill in a couple of issue when Englehart fell behind deadline.
Of course now that you did a show about the Bronze Age Avengers, I just had to chime in, being my favorite title in my favorite era.
First, lets give a round of applause to Chris Eberle, Murd and Jaimie for really going in more detail than I expected, NICE! Also, Chuck Melville for filling in some blanks. If I may, I'd like to add some more background.
Hawkeye acting like a jerk to the Scarlet Witch, I think, was more of a rebound thing. He did have the hots for her early on, but she was more into Cap, and he was still carrying a torch for the Widow. Her SHIELD work behind the Iron Curtain (a running sub-plot in early Avengers issues) and his Avengers work kept them apart, so she dumped him. His thinking was "Hey, I'm here and single and so is Wanda, lucky girl!" He WAS Hawkeye, after all.
Roy Thomas had dropped a couple of clues to the Vision's origin, not sure if he meant the Human Torch, in Avengers 93 Ant-Man notices something, but then gets distracted by the Visions antibodies attacking. In issue 103 a Sentinel comments on the Vision's body having 4 decades of vintage.
Steve Englehart has stated in interviews that Mantis was a prostitute originally brought in to come on to all the male heroes and create dissention, but the charater took on a life of her own and ended up the Celestial Madonna. The great thing about writers like Englehart, Len Wein, Steve Gerber was the story was the most important thing, the conclusion will happen, but the journey is the thing. Most stories today, because of this trade paperback mindset, are told with the conclusion decided, than trying to decide how to stretch the story to fill 6 or 8 issues, no room for growth.
The whole Kang story that inter-twined with Giant Size 2-4 is my favorite Avengers story, I reread it frequently, one interesting note, G.S. 2 original cover also had Dr, Doom on it, next to Kang, possibly tying him into Kang as he was tied to Rama-Tut in FF ANN 2.
Hope this wasn't too long winded.
I agree, Pete, I started a few months earlier with Avengers 114 (the cover just grabbed me and forced me to buy it), it's nice to see the bronze age get some proper respect, sometime it seems everyone wants to bury anything made prior to 1980.
Question: Will you guys be doing special Spotlight episodes like this for other long running, continuity fun (Ok, Marvel) Titles ?
I really hope so.
I'd love to hear more.
Hawkguy had an unrequited love thing with Scarlet Witch in the early days when Stan was writing the book. He loved Wanda and Wanda loved Cap...and Cap was too much of a whiny bitch to know what was going on, so when Hawkguy confessed his love, it was Roy tying off that plot thread. Thank goodness he didn't do it for Professor X's unrequited love for Jean Grey.
The Chris Claremont addition to the Sentinel story was that the Sentinels who flew toward the sun in the Neal Adams' and Roy Thomas's Avengers story would use solar radiation to sterilize humans, therefor wiping out future genetic mutations.
Great episode, guys, and this IS the era that really made the Avengers the hub of the Marvel Universe, whereas while Kirby was at Marvel, that was the FF.