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Episode 1358 Talkback: OTR on Time Warp #1,East of West #1,Green Hornet #1, Batman & Red Robin #19

Time for some discussion on some recent comics. We talk about, in some detail, Time Warp #1, East of West #1, Green Hornet #1 and Batman & Robin #19. (1:22:18)

Listen here.

Comments

  • rebisrebis Posts: 1,820
    It's Revelation. Not Revelations. More accurately, and depending on the translation you may have, it's "The Revelation of Jesus Christ".

    It's an important distinction.
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    If Hawk-Guy was in these comics, would they get more buys from Pants?
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    edited April 2013
    Snyder has gone on record that the bat-writers knew of Damian's death at the 52 launch
  • ElsiebubElsiebub Posts: 338
    ^Yeah, Morrison had this planned for years and hinted at it in interviews going back a long way. It was well-planned and everyone was long-informed about it across the board.
  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    Having heard an interview with Morrison on Kevin Smith's podcast, he had mentioned that his original plan was to kill Damian at the end of the story that introduced him.
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    jaydee74 said:

    Having heard an interview with Morrison on Kevin Smith's podcast, he had mentioned that his original plan was to kill Damian at the end of the story that introduced him.

    Said podcast is required listening for Bat or Morrison fans
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    What confounds me is if this was all known ahead of time, couldn't they coordinate the Death of the Family conclusion with the death of Damian better? The fallout of the Death of the Family was supposed to be that the Bat family cut ties with Bruce. Instead, each one of them will team up with him for the next several months on the Batman and Robin title.
  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    See, I never saw the story, Death of the Family to be taken literally. There was a death in a sense and it was of a family. It was the death of the Bat-family in a sense. You end that story with Bruce's family not trusting him like they did at the beginning of the story. They are all a bit broken and fractured and that bond is broken and fractured and in that sense, the Joker kind of won.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    To echo what Jamie stated about Mark Waid's Green Hornet, I think the book is amazingly great for a first issue. You get a quick overview for those not familiar, make reference to the "family legacy", and get the beginnings of a new storyline. It reminded me of the NOW Comics series released years ago.

    M
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    jaydee74 said:

    See, I never saw the story, Death of the Family to be taken literally. There was a death in a sense and it was of a family. It was the death of the Bat-family in a sense. You end that story with Bruce's family not trusting him like they did at the beginning of the story. They are all a bit broken and fractured and that bond is broken and fractured and in that sense, the Joker kind of won.

    I suppose. But that's a very subtle characterization for a publisher that's been just the opposite as of late
  • ShaneKellyShaneKelly Posts: 156
    I am really going to have to re-read Green Hornet. For Jamie, Murd and Matt to like it that much and I don't, that seems odd to me. LOL
  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    @abuddah that might be true in a sense when it comes to the overall DC publishing stance, but this was a story crafted by Scott Snyder with the rest of the Bat-Family writers giving some input I would imagine when it comes to their own books and I think there has been very subtle and interesting things going on in these books and I wouldn't put it pass someone like Snyder for making a story where the "Death" doesn't have to be something literal but something symbolic and that's why I have really enjoyed the story. I saw this story as the tearing down and slow demise of a core group. A Family. I mean, the title says "Death of the Family" and not Death in the Family which would, to me mean a more literal sense of the title. I thought it was pretty good overall.

    I loved Batman and Red Robin #19. I honestly didn't think the "WTF" moment was the cover though. I know that's what most people would have thought but that moment was really want Batman was planning to do with Frankenstein and I thought it was really out of character which made it all the more tragic and sad. I will say that this issue has me interested in picking up any available trades of Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. so that's something. I'm looking forward to the next four issues of this story arc as Bruce goes through the 5 stages of grief. Should be interesting. Next issue we get anger with Jason Todd. That should be pretty damn tense.
  • Listening to the comments, particularly Murd's, for the Green Hornet issue (still waiting for my DCBS order, aaarrggghhh!) it sounds like Waid really did his homework. The use of an Irish brogue is in keeping with the old time radio serials - which I've been listening to since talking with Matt at Super Show about "With or Without Pulp" and specifically about the Green Hornet series from NOW comics - where one of the supporting characters had an incredible Irish accent that just adds to the fun of these old radio stories. And secondly, The Green Hornet was, from the outset of the radio series, seen as a criminal mastermind. That was how he managed to insinuate himself into the underworld so readily.

    If you're interested, you can check out some of those old radio shows in the link below:
    LINK

    chris
  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    The radio shows are great. They are also available on audible.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    I've been watching the old TV series on Antenna TV.
  • rebisrebis Posts: 1,820

    Listening to the comments, particularly Murd's, for the Green Hornet issue (still waiting for my DCBS order, aaarrggghhh!) it sounds like Waid really did his homework. The use of an Irish brogue is in keeping with the old time radio serials - which I've been listening to since talking with Matt at Super Show about "With or Without Pulp" and specifically about the Green Hornet series from NOW comics - where one of the supporting characters had an incredible Irish accent that just adds to the fun of these old radio stories. And secondly, The Green Hornet was, from the outset of the radio series, seen as a criminal mastermind. That was how he managed to insinuate himself into the underworld so readily.

    If you're interested, you can check out some of those old radio shows in the link below:
    LINK

    chris

    Thanks for the link, but ... Real Audio? How old is this site? Who uses a Real player anymore?
  • rebis said:



    Thanks for the link, but ... Real Audio? How old is this site? Who uses a Real player anymore?

    Apologies. That's not actually the link where I've downloaded the episodes I'm listening to. I replied to this from work and that real player link was the first that came up on the search list. I didn't even notice it was a real player site. The link I actually use is below:

    LINK

    chris



  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    Matt said:

    To echo what Jamie stated about Mark Waid's Green Hornet, I think the book is amazingly great for a first issue. You get a quick overview for those not familiar, make reference to the "family legacy", and get the beginnings of a new storyline. It reminded me of the NOW Comics series released years ago.

    M

    @Matt has their ever been a thing before where it was stated that Brit Reid was related to the Lone Ranger because I like that aspect.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    jaydee74 said:

    Matt said:

    To echo what Jamie stated about Mark Waid's Green Hornet, I think the book is amazingly great for a first issue. You get a quick overview for those not familiar, make reference to the "family legacy", and get the beginnings of a new storyline. It reminded me of the NOW Comics series released years ago.

    M

    @Matt has their ever been a thing before where it was stated that Brit Reid was related to the Lone Ranger because I like that aspect.
    Yep. The radio station that created the Lone Ranger introduced his nephew as Dan Reid (presumably a junior, since LR's brother's name was Daniel). When the same crew created the Green Hornet, Dan Reid was revealed as the father of Britt.

    M
  • rebisrebis Posts: 1,820

    rebis said:



    Thanks for the link, but ... Real Audio? How old is this site? Who uses a Real player anymore?

    Apologies. That's not actually the link where I've downloaded the episodes I'm listening to. I replied to this from work and that real player link was the first that came up on the search list. I didn't even notice it was a real player site. The link I actually use is below:

    LINK

    chris



    Thank you, thank you, thank you!
  • Matt said:

    jaydee74 said:

    Matt said:

    To echo what Jamie stated about Mark Waid's Green Hornet, I think the book is amazingly great for a first issue. You get a quick overview for those not familiar, make reference to the "family legacy", and get the beginnings of a new storyline. It reminded me of the NOW Comics series released years ago.

    M

    @Matt has their ever been a thing before where it was stated that Brit Reid was related to the Lone Ranger because I like that aspect.
    Yep. The radio station that created the Lone Ranger introduced his nephew as Dan Reid (presumably a junior, since LR's brother's name was Daniel). When the same crew created the Green Hornet, Dan Reid was revealed as the father of Britt.

    M
    I was surprised to find that out when I went digging for those old serials. I had always thought it was a ret-con by Ron Fortier and NOW comics. Now to be fair, I had no google back when that book came out *note sarcasm*

    chris
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    jaydee74 said:


    @Matt has their ever been a thing before where it was stated that Brit Reid was related to the Lone Ranger because I like that aspect.

    Matt said:

    Yep. The radio station that created the Lone Ranger introduced his nephew as Dan Reid (presumably a junior, since LR's brother's name was Daniel). When the same crew created the Green Hornet, Dan Reid was revealed as the father of Britt.

    Yeah, what Matt said, that definitely goes all the way back to the beginning. I think the reason they can't come right out and make the Lone Ranger connection more directly now, though, is because two different companies/estates own the rights to each character respectively. Something like that, anyway. Though with Dynamite having the comic rights to both, it would be cool if they could go back and re-establish and explore the connection a little more directly (which I have to imagine would have already occurred to them, if anyone over there has sense, but the lawyer thing might be preventing that?).

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Matt said:

    jaydee74 said:

    Matt said:

    To echo what Jamie stated about Mark Waid's Green Hornet, I think the book is amazingly great for a first issue. You get a quick overview for those not familiar, make reference to the "family legacy", and get the beginnings of a new storyline. It reminded me of the NOW Comics series released years ago.

    M

    @Matt has their ever been a thing before where it was stated that Brit Reid was related to the Lone Ranger because I like that aspect.
    Yep. The radio station that created the Lone Ranger introduced his nephew as Dan Reid (presumably a junior, since LR's brother's name was Daniel). When the same crew created the Green Hornet, Dan Reid was revealed as the father of Britt.

    M
    I was surprised to find that out when I went digging for those old serials. I had always thought it was a ret-con by Ron Fortier and NOW comics. Now to be fair, I had no google back when that book came out *note sarcasm*

    chris
    In my defense here, I knew it before this issue from somethings I'm researching for later this year.

    M
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,750
    Re: Time Warp, “R.I.P,” besides being a very clever title, was a good, solid story. As to @ShaneKelly’s desire for it to have been longer, I don’t agree. If there had been more interaction between the various Rips, the present Rip would have had time to figure out the logical conclusion to his predicament, thus ruining the ending.

    “It’s Full of Demons” had probably my favorite art of the book. I’ve been an admirer of Tom’s art for a long time. Like Murd, I figured out the twist as soon as I saw the hospital sign on page four. Of course, I’ve read a lot of alternate history, and the core of this plot is actually a fairly common one, as evidenced by the final story in the book. In fact, I have a whole book of short stories that play around with the same basic concept. Despite that though, the story was well told, so I had no problem with it.

    I think “I Have What You Need” was the weakest story in the book. While I loved the artwork by Gael Bertrand, I thought the characters were poorly developed. The villain was comically villainous just so the ending would feel justified. And I wasn’t sure what was up with the two male customers. It’s hard for me to state my issue without giving the ending away, but I’ll just say that their happy ending was completely out of left field and ran in complete contradiction to their earlier actions and feelings.

    “The Grudge” was an average story with nice artwork. Unlike you though, @Murd, I saw it as not so much an indictment of the potential pitfalls of science and those who practice it, but an indictment of a society based on consumerism and “the next big thing.” The scientists wanted to make grand discoveries to further mankind’s knowledge of the universe, but mankind only responded to the surface flash. I think the main point of the story was that mankind generally misses the forest for the trees.

    I’ve read all of this wave of anthology books, so I’d read the first “Deadboy Detectives” story. But it was so long ago when I read it, I didn’t fully remember what was going on until halfway through the story. I have no doubt that anyone who didn’t read the first part got nothing from this one. I wonder if they’ll reprint the story in a one-shot once it’s finished.

    I recognized M.K. Perker, the artist of “She’s Not There,” from his stint as a finisher/inker on Unwritten a while back. He also penciled Air, which I did not read. I liked his work here quite a bit. I had no problem with the ending per se, but it would have been much more effective if we had been given some small glimpse as to what she was capable of doing in her ghostly state. As it is, you’re not really sure she’ll even be able to exact any measure of revenge. It loses points for me because of that.

    “00:00:03:00” was... okay. An interesting concept but not as gut-wrenching as it perhaps it should have been.

    “Warning Danger” was my favorite story on the whole. I love Kindt’s work for the most part, especially the different ways he experiments with storytelling. The artwork was neck-and-neck with Tom Fowler’s as my favorite of the book. The story itself wasn’t exceptionally original, but the way it was told through the descriptions of the weaponry (some brilliant ideas there too) made all the difference.

    “The Principle” was good, but, as I said, I’ve read this type of thing before. The artwork reminded me of Rian Hughes, which is never a bad thing, and the story was well told if predictable.

    Overall, I think there’s enough here to justify the buy. I’m a big fan of the anthology format, even I never expect to enjoy every story. Short stories are not easily done well in comics. You really have to have a strong, basic concept and laser-focus everything on that idea, and most of the stories here were able to do that fairly well.
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    I skipped Green Hornet #1 the week it came out - partly due to money, and partly due to the fact that I've never found a Dynamite book I've really loved (stuff I've liked alright, sure, but never anything that's like "I need to read this!"). But I enjoy the character and Jamie and Matt's praise made me curious to check it out, so I picked it up today. I don't know if I liked it as much as they did, but it was enjoyable, and I am curious to see where Waid takes this as he hints pretty broadly that our boy Britt here is going to fall victim to his own hubris in a pretty big way.

    A lot of the GH stories I've read, seen, or heard (even those I've picked up from Dynamite) tend to follow the same basic plotline of "the Green Hornet busts a racket by infiltrating it," which is great and all, certainly the original M.O. of the character. But after a while it does get a little old and you need to find a new wrinkle to keep it interesting. I loved what I read of the Now Comics series (especially under Ron Fortier's pen) because of the family legacy angle he introduced (legacies, actually, as the Katos passed their roles down just as the Reids did). This seems like it might be similarly interesting.
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803

    I skipped Green Hornet #1 the week it came out - partly due to money, and partly due to the fact that I've never found a Dynamite book I've really loved (stuff I've liked alright, sure, but never anything that's like "I need to read this!"). But I enjoy the character and Jamie and Matt's praise made me curious to check it out, so I picked it up today. I don't know if I liked it as much as they did, but it was enjoyable, and I am curious to see where Waid takes this as he hints pretty broadly that our boy Britt here is going to fall victim to his own hubris in a pretty big way.

    A lot of the GH stories I've read, seen, or heard (even those I've picked up from Dynamite) tend to follow the same basic plotline of "the Green Hornet busts a racket by infiltrating it," which is great and all, certainly the original M.O. of the character. But after a while it does get a little old and you need to find a new wrinkle to keep it interesting. I loved what I read of the Now Comics series (especially under Ron Fortier's pen) because of the family legacy angle he introduced (legacies, actually, as the Katos passed their roles down just as the Reids did). This seems like it might be similarly interesting.

  • alienalalienal Posts: 508
    Time warp: overall, I was entertained, but not enough to keep buying, thus -BORROW!
    East of West: darn it, I only ordered this first issue, but I liked it soooooo...I guess I'll have to pick up 2 and 3 later. BUY!
    Green hornet: ho-hum, but sort of interesting. BORROW!
    Batman and Red Robin #19: I don't remember why I ordered this, but I liked it a lot!
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