The Devolution of Harley Quinn. Has her new costume design gone too far?
DarkKnight
Posts: 1
Interesting article about how Harley Quinn has changed over the years. What do you think of the new design, too gritty or can you never have enough cleavage?
http://thenerdybomb.com/truly-mad-the-devolution-of-harley-quinn/
http://thenerdybomb.com/truly-mad-the-devolution-of-harley-quinn/
Comments
If all you do is leave it as originally conceived, then are you really doing your job? But at the same time if you alter the design significantly you risk losing a lot of the character's original appeal.
DC's New 52 is littered with character redesign for redesign's sake, Harley's not even the worst example in her own comic.
At the end of the day, I really don't care how she's dressed in Suicide Squad. It's a damned good book and, in all honesty, as a non-batfan, I have no attachement for the character otherwise.
"We" get righteously indignant when an innocent and pure character (that attempts to murder people with a giant mallet and a rocket launcher) gets put in a s3x-pot dominatrix outfit (in a book where characters are being murdered right and left) and "we" get indignant when a character that started in a trampy space bathing suit gets reverted to said trampy space bathing suit after having spent some time in a forced attempt at rehab.
Some thoughts, about which, I would invite a dialog. Isn't it far more troubling that:
1 - Harley is in an abusive relationship with a psychopath?
2 - That Harley is being featured in a book where some 50,000+ people are killed in the first issue?
3 - Harley, while cute and funny is still a psychotic murderer (or at least attempted murder), which should be neither cute, not funny.
4 - That the feature characters are all murdering criminals in the first place?
5 - The first thought given all of the above is a puritanical concern for modesty? "Save the children from being scarred by the Harley's trampy outfit and nearly bare breasts!" all while watching King Shark bite a Basilisk agent in half.
Again: I'm no Bat-fan and I don't care for Teen Titans Go!, Tiny Titans or Red Hood and the Outlaws. I have no horse in the race, with possible exception of a cogent argument.
The redesign is a bigger problem than bad writing, because you can't put bad writing on a t-shirt.
It's all bad brand management, though hardly DC's worst, but visuals are naturally more visible. It's why people wondered why the movie Green Lantern was a white guy.
So its natural people will wonder why Harley Quinn is now video game ugly. And no doubt come Man of Steel, people will be wondering where Superman's red trunks are.
1) That’s the entire point of her character as she was originally portrayed, and what makes her such an interesting character—the contrast between her cute, bubbly exterior and her dark, disturbed interior. It’s exactly what Mad Love (see my above post) is all about. But if her exterior reflects her interior, that contrast is no longer there, and it diminishes her character.
2) I’d like to see the population chart for the DC (and Marvel) universe. It has to be significantly lower than our world.
3) See #1.
4) Without knowing the context, I can’t say one way or the other.
5) Modesty isn’t my concern. The contrast in her character is. (Again, see #1.) The outfit plays heavily into the effectiveness of that contrast, and that is why I hate the new costume. With the new costume, she’s simply another psychopath and far less interesting.
DC could care less about Harley Quinn's original costume from a cartoon that is 20 years old. Most of the demo that DC is looking for has never seen the cartoon or barely remembers it.
2) Agreed - in this case, terrorist attack on a stadium full of fans. 50,000 could be a high estimate, but it was a substantial body count.
3) See #1
4) Suicide Squad - inherently villains sent on suicidal missions, that almost always involve the team killing someone (often times including members of their own team). Why use villains? No social value of their own and no compunctions about killing the opposition.
5) Understood. I've conflated this with the indignation offered in another thread with regard to Starfire.
At the end of the day, I read the books that I like (for varying reasons - character, creator, concept). I've survived through a changes (both good and bad) on so many books that I'm just not concerned about much of what is going on in the New 52 at the moment, but I've accepted that it's not the DCU that I know. In a lot of ways that's fun in and of itself. I read a lot of SF and fantasy as well. The books that I like most tend to be the ones that are different enough to leave me not immediately getting the "rules" of the world.
When the books stop being fun (overall - yeah, Waller didn't need to get skinny, Harley doesn't need to dress like Harl[ot], but the overall concept of the Suicide Squad is more interesting than those things are objectionable) I'm done reading them. I've outlasted the leather jacket Avengers, the Jughead Legion and the Three-boot Legion. Odds are pretty good that I'll either outlast the New 52 or they'll manage to prove the value of the experiment.
As for the second half, there's nothing but disappointment ahead if the path that you're walking is comparing today's books with fond memories from yesteryear. For what it's worth, there were some pretty terrible costumes in the original series as well. Creative changes do not alway bode ill, though that seems to be what you're rooting for here. Apologies, wasn't attempting to be patronizing. Your response to my previous comment referenced to the context of all of the featured characters being murderers seemed to be asking about the context surrounding the current Harley. That being the Suicide Squad, I was a bit surprised that you would ask, but figured better to offer the info.
I don't see Waller or the organization being played sympathetically in the book. The entire concept behind the book really is quite cynical and has been from its original inception.
I will say that while unnecessary, I do think that they've done something with Waller's backstory that begins to justify her new figure. Admittedly, it's the classic Wildstorm agency chief as former operative trope, but the pre-Flashpoint Waller's Cabrini Green origin doesn't really serve any longer.
I once taught an art class and one of the assignments I gave was to create a movie poster for a horror film, and one of the ideas that I covered was that some of the best horror films used evil wrapped in a familiar/innocent/"happy" package, which makes the impact even greater. Children (The Omen), clowns (Poltergeist - the clown doll), family pets (Cujo) - great fodder for horror.
Changing Harley Quinn's look into that of a Juggalette does diminish the character. How much depends on the use of the character. At the very least, the initial facade is gone.
Good discussion, though, folks.
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It puts me in mind of the apocryphal story of the great movie director, Cecil B DeMille, who decided to produce and direct a comedy. Having never before done a comedy, he sat and watched several reels of the most popular comedy films of the time. (This was during the Silent Film era.) When he finished and presented his comedy, most of the early viewers scratched their heads in confusion. One of them approached him and opined that there was no story or obvious point to the comedy, that there were only scenes of people running around. DeMille retorted that it was no different from any comedy he had recently watched, that they all featured the very same thing: scenes of people running around.
That's my view of the current Suicide Squad and DC in general: they want to recreate the best of the best from the past (or else why revive these specific titles?) and are trying to recreate the popularity they once enjoyed, but have no idea (or interest) in what really made them work. They're just producing reams of pages of people running around. It's a shame that they think so, because that was the version that had the greater depth of character and thus was far more interesting. She used to be human, her overall indomitable toughness balanced with humanity and an inner vulnerability born of tragedy; now, she's just a gun-toting black caricature who can't rise above being a bitch. Her appearances in Team 7 and Justice League Of America only serve to perpetuate that caricature. Seriously, if this is the image that DC believes best serves, then the company is in even worse straits than I might have imagined.
I know that I'm guilty of it - Jughead Legion, Three-boot Legion, Post Silver Centurion Iron Man armor. Pretty much any Bendis Avengers line-up
In this case, I've just decided to go with the flow. At this point, they've managed to out last Heroes Reborn, but are still well under the counts for the New Universe. So, for the time being, I'm just accepting that this is a giant Elseworlds with some things that I like and others that I don't. No matter what happens, I've still got all of the characters that I like at my fingertips to revisit in back issue form.
Batman - to me, Jim Aparo's version of Batman *is* my Batman. There have been better designs on the costume, and better stories he appeared in, but skinny narrow heads and no body armor is the Batman I grew up with.
Starfire - Perez's original version still stands. Knee, not thigh boots, a revealing outfit but more in the idea of a European swimsuit than stripperware.
Huntress - to me she was at her best in the 90s and how she is now. One of those great designs where you don't have to show a bunch of skin to maker the character look dangerous AND alluring at the same time.
Power Girl - boob window. :) Accept no substitutes.
Green Arrow - actually liked Grell's take on him via Longbow Hunters. The hood was a great update.
Supergirl - I'm from the 70s. Kara wore hotpants and a big blousy blouse. I've enjoyed the myriad other costumes she's worn, but I always try and get sketches of her in the 70s garb if the artist remembers it. :)
Batgirl - surprisingly, Stephanie's version was, IMHO one of the best versions of the outfit. I know that's probably blasphemy but it's just my take on it.