At first I thought the priest was a schoolmate, possibly an old bully.
If you recall, after Clark discovers his heritage & returns to Ma, there is a semi-truck that pulls away. It says LexCorp.
I think the humor came when it needed to, after Superman was accepted & found his place in the world. (I know @chuck_melville, AFTER he murdered Zod like a common Kryptonian!!)
There are things I didn't like, BUT I understand them in the context of the theme of the movie.
Sure Kal-El gave Zod what he ultimately wanted...so do the police in suicide by police situations. Doesn't make it right, but it happen in those types of moments.
Sometimes I think people try to do Superman a disservice by only wanting him to be infallible. I think that completely undercuts the character.
I believe the realism angle applies to an alien with superpowers feeling like an outcast. Plus, the response of the world if an alien was discovered among us. Would you just welcome an alien who looks humanoid with open arms? (If yes, I recommend reading "How to Serve Man."
The best comic book based movie for me would probably be The Dark Knight. TDKR & Batman Begins are close to being there.
If anything, it makes Zod the winner in the confrontation, because he forced Superman into giving him what he wanted, instead of being taken down and forced to face punishment for his actions. And he sullied Superman's hands in the process.
I don't blame Superman for this. Really.
I blame the writers.
What punishment could he have possible faced had Superman kept him alive? If you keep him here on Earth there's no prison that can hold him, no possible weapon to kill him short of nuclear bomb (which would cruel and unusual punishment); in other words, no form of justice or punishment is possible. Earth doesn't have the technology or means to send him into space or to the Phantom Zone. Superman does what is necessary and right; Zod doesn't win because Superman isn't brought down in the eyes of humanity. He's just dead.
He would have had to improvise some means of imprisonment. He still had in his possession somewhere the scout ship he found earlier on; I'm sure he could have found or cobbled together something from within to properly bind and restrain Zod or even put him into some form of suspended sleep. We don't know what was on the ship, but I'm sure the writers could have come up with something.
Just for the sake of discussion: Didn't Batman kill Ra's at the end of "Batman Begins?" I recall a line of dialogue where he says "I don't have to save you" or something to that effect. Is that any different from the Superman/Zod final confrontation? It's been a long time since I took an ethics/philosophy class.
No. Batman didn't directly kill Ras. He died due to his own actions. Batman stated "I'm not going to kill you. But I don't have to save you."
Its similar to just walking away. You might argue that Batman did kill him since he destroyed the controls, making it unstoppable. Add Gordon to the list for destroying the tracks then.
Ras didn't get trapped or pinned in the train. He technically could've made some attempt to escape.
Although Zod committed "death by police officer" (brilliantly put by someone), Kal-El was directly responsible for the death.
M
Batman was Ra’s’ only reasonable chance to survive. By actively choosing not to save Ra’s’ life, Batman effectively killed him. If an innocent civilian had been in that position and Batman said, “I don’t have to save you,” everyone would have been outraged, and rightly so. Just because Ra’s is the bad guy doesn’t make it any less of an offense. A life is still a life, morally and according to the laws that govern us. Given the circumstances of the impending crash and the limited amount of time he had, I doubt Batman could have been convicted of murder or even manslaughter in a court of law, even if Ra’s had been an innocent civilian, but morally he is guilty. Perhaps it is justifiable, but we humans can justify a lot of things that we know are morally wrong.
As for Man of Steel, legally it was self-defense, but morally it was still murder. It’s as justifiable a murder as can be, and perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the law, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s murder. How people come to terms with the act is up to their individual codes of ethics.
But the real debate here—as has been pointed out—isn’t over Superman’s actions per se, it’s over the producers’/writers’/director’s/editor’s decisions (without having the shooting script and without knowing what ended up on the cutting room floor, it’s difficult to know exactly who is responsible for what). They obviously went into production knowing that Superman killing Zod was going to be the climax of the film. We don’t know the exact reason why they chose to do this. Maybe to show that this Superman “isn’t your father’s Superman.” Maybe because it’s the central theme of the overall story arc—Act I: Superman sins, Act II: Superman seeks redemption, Act III: Superman finds redemption. Maybe it was simply to generate buzz and excitement for the film (“there’s no such thing as bad publicity”). Either way, it was their decision. So it was their job to convince us that it was the right decision. I haven’t seen the movie yet (unfortunately I don’t get out to the theater very often), but judging by the posts here and elsewhere, I’d have to say they didn’t do their job as well as they could have.
But the real debate here—as has been pointed out—isn’t over Superman’s actions per se, it’s over the producers’/writers’/director’s/editor’s decisions (without having the shooting script and without knowing what ended up on the cutting room floor, it’s difficult to know exactly who is responsible for what). They obviously went into production knowing that Superman killing Zod was going to be the climax of the film. We don’t know the exact reason why they chose to do this. Maybe to show that this Superman “isn’t your father’s Superman.” Maybe because it’s the central theme of the overall story arc—Act I: Superman sins, Act II: Superman seeks redemption, Act III: Superman finds redemption. Maybe it was simply to generate buzz and excitement for the film (“there’s no such thing as bad publicity”). Either way, it was their decision. So it was their job to convince us that it was the right decision. I haven’t seen the movie yet (unfortunately I don’t get out to the theater very often), but judging by the posts here and elsewhere, I’d have to say they didn’t do their job as well as they could have.
If anything, it makes Zod the winner in the confrontation, because he forced Superman into giving him what he wanted, instead of being taken down and forced to face punishment for his actions. And he sullied Superman's hands in the process.
I don't blame Superman for this. Really.
I blame the writers.
What punishment could he have possible faced had Superman kept him alive? If you keep him here on Earth there's no prison that can hold him, no possible weapon to kill him short of nuclear bomb (which would cruel and unusual punishment); in other words, no form of justice or punishment is possible. Earth doesn't have the technology or means to send him into space or to the Phantom Zone. Superman does what is necessary and right; Zod doesn't win because Superman isn't brought down in the eyes of humanity. He's just dead.
He would have had to improvise some means of imprisonment. He still had in his possession somewhere the scout ship he found earlier on; I'm sure he could have found or cobbled together something from within to properly bind and restrain Zod or even put him into some form of suspended sleep. We don't know what was on the ship, but I'm sure the writers could have come up with something.
Only seen it once, and there was a lot going on, but didn't Zod steal the scout ship? Wasn't he flying it around buildings later and slamming it into things?
I think a lot of what you blame Snyder for is more the fault of the scriptwriters*, although I completely agree about the heavy-handed Christ imagery.
*Among whom was, I believe, Nolan.
3 shots (totaling about 15 secs) is heavy-handed with only 1 being overt?
In this case, yes.
The lingering crucifixion pose was one of the most ham-fisted shots I've seen in years. At least he didn't tilt his head to the side.
Lingering? It lasted about 2.5 seconds. And there was a literal ton of this in the Donner movies. All the speaches by Jor-el about how he sent them, and how he's his "only son". Its all over the movie.
Lingering? It lasted about 2.5 seconds. And there was a literal ton of this in the Donner movies. All the speaches by Jor-el about how he sent them, and how he's his "only son". Its all over the movie.
Considering how quick cuts are in modern films, 2.5 seconds is an eternity.
And you're wrong in assuming I'm a fan of the Donner/Lester films.
Saw it last night. Liked the Krypton stuff, Jor El and the Zod/Supes fight most of all. Liked Russel Crowe much more than I expected to. Pretty sad I enjoyed and cared more for Jor El and thought he was a better influence than Pa Kent. Liked Supes/Cavil? more than I expected to. Pretty likeable. Never seen him in anything before. He did fine. Disliked the actressand character of krypton mom. dull and not an impressive performance. Didnt care for Diane Lane? /Ma Kent. Didnt hate but she seemed kindve distanced too. If that makes sense. Liked Zod/Shanon? a lot more than I expected. Not familiar with this actor. Liked how insane he was and gave a good performance. Liked Costner less I expected. Not a Costner fan (or hater). I felt so little for his character and didnt care for this interpretation much at all. His death was pretty stupid, unbelievable and poorly written IMO. I felt nothing. Liked Amy Adams far less that I epected. Wasnt right for the role to begin with but I like her as an actress. Hated how they tried so rediculously hard to make her appear tough. Didnt work in the slightest. Too old and had no chemesty w/ superman IMO. Found her voice annoying. Effects were pretty great. Story was pretty weak. Hated the suit as much as I expected... maybe even a little moreso. fortunately they mostly showed him from only the chest up. Too rubbery. texture and color etc constantly changed depending on lighting/setting. alo seemed odd seeing all the visible chest hair at the top in close ups. Loved the heat vision effects. Didnt care for and got kindve annoyed with the flashback/flashforward approach. No problem w/ Lois knowing Supes identity but no way everyone else doesnt know it too. At least the authorities. Had no problem with supes killing Zod. However I did have a problem with how it happened and was shown. I little too violent and graphic and unexpectd for the kids at least IMO. Have trouble with the amount of devestation and the obvious certain death toll and supermans lack of interest and intervention. Liked the Air Force General but hated how he and the Military ingeneral were portrayed... even though totally expected. No problem with Perry White (casting or performance) but nothing to really coment on since he didnt do anything. Metropolis was pretty uninteresting and Krypton needed a little more something. Really shouldve/couldve been more humor.
Saw it last night. Liked the Krypton stuff, Jor El and the Zod/Supes fight most of all. Liked Russel Crowe much more than I expected to. Pretty sad I enjoyed and cared more for Jor El and thought he was a better influence than Pa Kent. Liked Supes/Cavil? more than I expected to. Pretty likeable. Never seen him in anything before. He did fine. Disliked the actressand character of krypton mom. dull and not an impressive performance. Didnt care for Diane Lane? /Ma Kent. Didnt hate but she seemed kindve distanced too. If that makes sense. Liked Zod/Shanon? a lot more than I expected. Not familiar with this actor. Liked how insane he was and gave a good performance. Liked Costner less I expected. Not a Costner fan (or hater). I felt so little for his character and didnt care for this interpretation much at all. His death was pretty stupid, unbelievable and poorly written IMO. I felt nothing. Liked Amy Adams far less that I epected. Wasnt right for the role to begin with but I like her as an actress. Hated how they tried so rediculously hard to make her appear tough. Didnt work in the slightest. Too old and had no chemesty w/ superman IMO. Found her voice annoying. Effects were pretty great. Story was pretty weak. Hated the suit as much as I expected... maybe even a little moreso. fortunately they mostly showed him from only the chest up. Too rubbery. texture and color etc constantly changed depending on lighting/setting. alo seemed odd seeing all the visible chest hair at the top in close ups. Loved the heat vision effects. Didnt care for and got kindve annoyed with the flashback/flashforward approach. No problem w/ Lois knowing Supes identity but no way everyone else doesnt know it too. At least the authorities. Had no problem with supes killing Zod. However I did have a problem with how it happened and was shown. I little too violent and graphic and unexpectd for the kids at least IMO. Have trouble with the amount of devestation and the obvious certain death toll and supermans lack of interest and intervention. Liked the Air Force General but hated how he and the Military ingeneral were portrayed... even though totally expected. No problem with Perry White (casting or performance) but nothing to really coment on since he didnt do anything. Metropolis was pretty uninteresting and Krypton needed a little more something. Really shouldve/couldve been more humor.
Wow, I knew when & how Jonathan died & I still found it important and emotional. Pa wasn't as caring as other interpretations, but rather caused Clark to really think about his decisions.
His death (despite Clark's ease at being able to save him) was Jonathan's sacrifice to make Clark ready before presenting himself to the world (since it'll change everything.) All after the last conversation ended with "you're not my father..."
I'd argue Clark wasn't ready to present himself to the world until after his soul searching/heritage discovering journey ended. Pa's death occurred at its beginning. I interpreted this as the push Clark needed to start his journey.
Saw it last night. Liked the Krypton stuff, Jor El and the Zod/Supes fight most of all. Liked Russel Crowe much more than I expected to. Pretty sad I enjoyed and cared more for Jor El and thought he was a better influence than Pa Kent. Liked Supes/Cavil? more than I expected to. Pretty likeable. Never seen him in anything before. He did fine. Disliked the actressand character of krypton mom. dull and not an impressive performance. Didnt care for Diane Lane? /Ma Kent. Didnt hate but she seemed kindve distanced too. If that makes sense. Liked Zod/Shanon? a lot more than I expected. Not familiar with this actor. Liked how insane he was and gave a good performance. Liked Costner less I expected. Not a Costner fan (or hater). I felt so little for his character and didnt care for this interpretation much at all. His death was pretty stupid, unbelievable and poorly written IMO. I felt nothing. Liked Amy Adams far less that I epected. Wasnt right for the role to begin with but I like her as an actress. Hated how they tried so rediculously hard to make her appear tough. Didnt work in the slightest. Too old and had no chemesty w/ superman IMO. Found her voice annoying. Effects were pretty great. Story was pretty weak. Hated the suit as much as I expected... maybe even a little moreso. fortunately they mostly showed him from only the chest up. Too rubbery. texture and color etc constantly changed depending on lighting/setting. alo seemed odd seeing all the visible chest hair at the top in close ups. Loved the heat vision effects. Didnt care for and got kindve annoyed with the flashback/flashforward approach. No problem w/ Lois knowing Supes identity but no way everyone else doesnt know it too. At least the authorities. Had no problem with supes killing Zod. However I did have a problem with how it happened and was shown. I little too violent and graphic and unexpectd for the kids at least IMO. Have trouble with the amount of devestation and the obvious certain death toll and supermans lack of interest and intervention. Liked the Air Force General but hated how he and the Military ingeneral were portrayed... even though totally expected. No problem with Perry White (casting or performance) but nothing to really coment on since he didnt do anything. Metropolis was pretty uninteresting and Krypton needed a little more something. Really shouldve/couldve been more humor.
I agree, Amy is too old. Oh well.
I think this movie might be one of those divides for "fans" of superman. For instance, I totally consider myself a fan of Star Trek. Liked TOS, the TOS movies (own several, but not all), like TNG and DS9. Never cared for Voyager, never watched Enterprise.
But I've tried to like ST2009 3 times. Do not like. Not gonna get into why here, because it aint the right venue. But I won't be watching Into Darkness. Maybe never, who knows. If it comes on cable I suppose I might watch it just because.
But my point is, this might be a dividing line for some. Some, maybe many many fans were able to make the transition to enjoying new Trek. I suspect many fans will be able to thoroughly enjoy this movie and hopefully more in the future. But a few might just have to say... nope, not for me.
I get what they wanted to say and I could deal but it didnt work for me. it was silly. Pa Kent dies trying to save a damn dog? really? sacrifices himself for clarks secret? Clark stands there and watches him die? no way. not in this scenario as it was staged. too many believable options and other choices. fear of people fearing him really outways his fathers certain death? and after risking his secret to save countless others his entre adolescence? nope. I could tolerate it in a better developed scene but not this.
I suspect many fans will be able to thoroughly enjoy this movie and hopefully more in the future. But a few might just have to say... nope, not for me.
Exactly.
That's what I did.
And that's OK.
I don't condemn anyone for liking it, but I don't understand the hostility towards some of us who didn't from some of those who did.
Haven't seen the movie yet, but saw these comments on Facebook.
Kevin Maguire Words may not be able to express how profoundly disappointed I was with Man Of Steel. I can't tell you much I wanted to love it, how much I wanted to love ANY new Superman movie. Except for the second to last line in the movie, there was no wit to it. There was no charm, no warmth,elements which Iron Man and The Avengers had in spades.They rushed through his upbringing so that you have no real empathy with the character. As the big action climax is taking place, I couldn't care less what happened to anyone. Compare that to the new Star Trek, which got you to care about what happened to the characters. The plot was ridiculous! (WHY did Zod want Lois on his ship? Was there ANY credible explanation for that?) It just depresses me further that they gave the sequel and,even more horrifying, a Justice League movie to Goyer. When I walked out of Green Lantern, I was perplexed and bummed, but with this one, I'm flat out angry.
I saw the movie today and I generally liked it. I have a couple of annoyances with my movie going experience. One a kid (8 to 10) sat next and could not sit still for five minutes. Two, unlike some of you I really like 3D, and I was disappointed when I went to the IMAX and they did not show it in 3D. Looking at the website I can see it was my fault for not double checking. I really missed the depth 3D provides.
Back to the movie. I like that Lois figured out who Superman was fairily quickly. Unlike some others I thought Amy Adams looked too young to be playing Lois. Looking up her age now I am shocked she and I are almost the same age. She looked like she was in her 20s. It annoyed me that Superman never moved the fights outside of public spaces. It did not make sense for him to go through building after building without considering a change of venue. He unintentionally killed/hurt more people than he saved in the movie. That being said the action scenes were good. What they got right was the speed of the fights more than anything else for me. I like the flashbacks to his childhood. It gave the move some meat without having to sit through is childhood in sequence. There was some logic flaws near the end, but it did not kills the movie for me.
This movie reminded me a lot of the Incredible Hulk. It even had that conveniently cleared off arena for Superman/Zod to fight in.
Haven't seen the movie yet, but saw these comments on Facebook.
Kevin Maguire Words may not be able to express how profoundly disappointed I was with Man Of Steel. I can't tell you much I wanted to love it, how much I wanted to love ANY new Superman movie. Except for the second to last line in the movie, there was no wit to it. There was no charm, no warmth,elements which Iron Man and The Avengers had in spades.They rushed through his upbringing so that you have no real empathy with the character. As the big action climax is taking place, I couldn't care less what happened to anyone. Compare that to the new Star Trek, which got you to care about what happened to the characters. The plot was ridiculous! (WHY did Zod want Lois on his ship? Was there ANY credible explanation for that?) It just depresses me further that they gave the sequel and,even more horrifying, a Justice League movie to Goyer. When I walked out of Green Lantern, I was perplexed and bummed, but with this one, I'm flat out angry.
I like this and agree somewhat. Just wouldnt say the movie made me angry... dissapointed and homesick for the real superman but i was entertained and ultimately enjoyed myself at least. I too am not happy goyer is involved.
while am at it i want to bitch a litle more... the "drone scene" at the end was possibly the worst thing in the whole movie. just nauseating. almost ruined what good i got from the movie as a whole. the whole scene and the "I just think hes hot" line was asenine. What was most annoying and curious was the entire theater errupted into absolute gut busting laughter at that. honestly?
I suspect many fans will be able to thoroughly enjoy this movie and hopefully more in the future. But a few might just have to say... nope, not for me.
Exactly.
That's what I did.
And that's OK.
I don't condemn anyone for liking it, but I don't understand the hostility towards some of us who didn't from some of those who did.
I hope to clarify about any perceived hostility from me; its not there. I enjoy keeping the discussion going, but I don't expect everyone to like it.
Whenever my wife & I dissent on a subject, I always try to follow her thought process. It helps me see how she came to her conclusion. I still might not agree with it, but I'll understand it.
Same here on the forums. I'm trying to understand how people who don't like it came to their opinion (a lot of which I agree with), but at the same time convey how I came to my conclusion. I'm not trying to get people to agree with me (if it seems like I am), just understand.
I did get a little hostile when people were mixing up verbs. Saying Superman WOULD never kill is inaccurate because we've noted situations he did (regardless if you agree with them). I is accurate to say (and I agree on this) Superman SHOULD never kill.
while am at it i want to bitch a litle more... the "drone scene" at the end was possibly the worst thing in the whole movie. just nauseating. almost ruined what good i got from the movie as a whole. the whole scene and the "I just think hes hot" line was asenine. What was most annoying and curious was the entire theater errupted into absolute gut busting laughter at that. honestly?
Well, there's no accounting for taste. I liked that scene very much. When I saw the "i just think he's hot" thing in previews, i cringed. But the movie sold it, and for me they sold it by the generals reaction. He smirks, shrugs as if to say "well... you can't argue with that."
while am at it i want to bitch a litle more... the "drone scene" at the end was possibly the worst thing in the whole movie. just nauseating. almost ruined what good i got from the movie as a whole. the whole scene and the "I just think hes hot" line was asenine. What was most annoying and curious was the entire theater errupted into absolute gut busting laughter at that. honestly?
Relief.
It was the first remotely funny moment in what seemed like hours.
People would have laughed at a pie in the face at that point.
There's a reason James Bond used to quip after killing somebody: it helps dispel the horror.
I get what they wanted to say and I could deal but it didnt work for me. it was silly. Pa Kent dies trying to save a damn dog? really? sacrifices himself for clarks secret? Clark stands there and watches him die? no way. not in this scenario as it was staged. too many believable options and other choices. fear of people fearing him really outways his fathers certain death? and after risking his secret to save countless others his entre adolescence? nope. I could tolerate it in a better developed scene but not this.
I feel like if you only see the sacrifice occurring by saving the dog, then you saw something I didn't. I saw it as what started the moment, not what caused the sacrifice.
I can be the only one who finds a flawed Superman interesting can I? He can't be in the same fight or flight mindset as we are? I know he has superpowers, but he was raised human. Its not like he knew any different. M
Haven't seen the movie yet, but saw these comments on Facebook.
Kevin Maguire Words may not be able to express how profoundly disappointed I was with Man Of Steel. I can't tell you much I wanted to love it, how much I wanted to love ANY new Superman movie. Except for the second to last line in the movie, there was no wit to it. There was no charm, no warmth,elements which Iron Man and The Avengers had in spades.They rushed through his upbringing so that you have no real empathy with the character. As the big action climax is taking place, I couldn't care less what happened to anyone. Compare that to the new Star Trek, which got you to care about what happened to the characters. The plot was ridiculous! (WHY did Zod want Lois on his ship? Was there ANY credible explanation for that?) It just depresses me further that they gave the sequel and,even more horrifying, a Justice League movie to Goyer. When I walked out of Green Lantern, I was perplexed and bummed, but with this one, I'm flat out angry.
I like this and agree somewhat. Just wouldnt say the movie made me angry... dissapointed and homesick for the real superman but i was entertained and ultimately enjoyed myself at least. I too am not happy goyer is involved.
Trust me, if you spend time taking the similar journey to find his purpose, you'd understand why there was a plethora of humor & empathy.
while am at it i want to bitch a litle more... the "drone scene" at the end was possibly the worst thing in the whole movie. just nauseating. almost ruined what good i got from the movie as a whole. the whole scene and the "I just think hes hot" line was asenine. What was most annoying and curious was the entire theater errupted into absolute gut busting laughter at that. honestly?
The line was stupid...but the scene had some of the humor people complained wasn't there. It also related to Superman's statement "you're afraid of me because you can't control me." This is letting the US government he's not their newest weapon. Didn't Tony have a similar scene in Iron Man 2 with Senator Stern?
If anything, it makes Zod the winner in the confrontation, because he forced Superman into giving him what he wanted, instead of being taken down and forced to face punishment for his actions. And he sullied Superman's hands in the process.
I don't blame Superman for this. Really.
I blame the writers.
Who says Zod is dead any way? All those fisticuffs and a neck broken is what does it? Hmmm... I smell a plot twist for the third movie!?!?!
Sure Kal-El gave Zod what he ultimately wanted...so do the police in suicide by police situations. Doesn't make it right, but it happen in those types of moments.
Sometimes I think people try to do Superman a disservice by only wanting him to be infallible. I think that completely undercuts the character.
I believe the realism angle applies to an alien with superpowers feeling like an outcast. Plus, the response of the world if an alien was discovered among us. Would you just welcome an alien who looks humanoid with open arms? (If yes, I recommend reading "How to Serve Man."
Did I ever tell you guys I initially had reservations about an 8yr retired Batman & the ending of The Dark Knight Rises? To me, Batman shouldn't stop until he dies...and then only if he didn't have a contingency plan to return. As Superman said in the Batman Beyond episode "The Call" "Bruce will outlive us all. He's too stubborn to die."
So, I don't want to see that happen...ever. In the theme & context of TDKR, I understand why it happened & why it had to be that way. Again, I don't necessarily agree with it (as a Batman comic book fan), but I understand it in the movie.
Comments
If you recall, after Clark discovers his heritage & returns to Ma, there is a semi-truck that pulls away. It says LexCorp.
I think the humor came when it needed to, after Superman was accepted & found his place in the world. (I know @chuck_melville, AFTER he murdered Zod like a common Kryptonian!!)
There are things I didn't like, BUT I understand them in the context of the theme of the movie.
Sure Kal-El gave Zod what he ultimately wanted...so do the police in suicide by police situations. Doesn't make it right, but it happen in those types of moments.
Sometimes I think people try to do Superman a disservice by only wanting him to be infallible. I think that completely undercuts the character.
I believe the realism angle applies to an alien with superpowers feeling like an outcast. Plus, the response of the world if an alien was discovered among us. Would you just welcome an alien who looks humanoid with open arms? (If yes, I recommend reading "How to Serve Man."
The best comic book based movie for me would probably be The Dark Knight. TDKR & Batman Begins are close to being there.
M
The lingering crucifixion pose was one of the most ham-fisted shots I've seen in years. At least he didn't tilt his head to the side.
And you're wrong in assuming I'm a fan of the Donner/Lester films.
Liked the Krypton stuff, Jor El and the Zod/Supes fight most of all.
Liked Russel Crowe much more than I expected to. Pretty sad I enjoyed and cared more for Jor El and thought he was a better influence than Pa Kent.
Liked Supes/Cavil? more than I expected to. Pretty likeable. Never seen him in anything before. He did fine.
Disliked the actressand character of krypton mom. dull and not an impressive performance.
Didnt care for Diane Lane? /Ma Kent. Didnt hate but she seemed kindve distanced too. If that makes sense.
Liked Zod/Shanon? a lot more than I expected. Not familiar with this actor. Liked how insane he was and gave a good performance.
Liked Costner less I expected. Not a Costner fan (or hater). I felt so little for his character and didnt care for this interpretation much at all. His death was pretty stupid, unbelievable and poorly written IMO. I felt nothing.
Liked Amy Adams far less that I epected. Wasnt right for the role to begin with but I like her as an actress. Hated how they tried so rediculously hard to make her appear tough. Didnt work in the slightest. Too old and had no chemesty w/ superman IMO. Found her voice annoying.
Effects were pretty great. Story was pretty weak.
Hated the suit as much as I expected... maybe even a little moreso. fortunately they mostly showed him from only the chest up. Too rubbery. texture and color etc constantly changed depending on lighting/setting. alo seemed odd seeing all the visible chest hair at the top in close ups.
Loved the heat vision effects.
Didnt care for and got kindve annoyed with the flashback/flashforward approach.
No problem w/ Lois knowing Supes identity but no way everyone else doesnt know it too. At least the authorities.
Had no problem with supes killing Zod. However I did have a problem with how it happened and was shown. I little too violent and graphic and unexpectd for the kids at least IMO.
Have trouble with the amount of devestation and the obvious certain death toll and supermans lack of interest and intervention.
Liked the Air Force General but hated how he and the Military ingeneral were portrayed... even though totally expected.
No problem with Perry White (casting or performance) but nothing to really coment on since he didnt do anything.
Metropolis was pretty uninteresting and Krypton needed a little more something.
Really shouldve/couldve been more humor.
His death (despite Clark's ease at being able to save him) was Jonathan's sacrifice to make Clark ready before presenting himself to the world (since it'll change everything.) All after the last conversation ended with "you're not my father..."
I'd argue Clark wasn't ready to present himself to the world until after his soul searching/heritage discovering journey ended. Pa's death occurred at its beginning. I interpreted this as the push Clark needed to start his journey.
M
I think this movie might be one of those divides for "fans" of superman. For instance, I totally consider myself a fan of Star Trek. Liked TOS, the TOS movies (own several, but not all), like TNG and DS9. Never cared for Voyager, never watched Enterprise.
But I've tried to like ST2009 3 times. Do not like. Not gonna get into why here, because it aint the right venue. But I won't be watching Into Darkness. Maybe never, who knows. If it comes on cable I suppose I might watch it just because.
But my point is, this might be a dividing line for some. Some, maybe many many fans were able to make the transition to enjoying new Trek. I suspect many fans will be able to thoroughly enjoy this movie and hopefully more in the future. But a few might just have to say... nope, not for me.
That's what I did.
And that's OK.
I don't condemn anyone for liking it, but I don't understand the hostility towards some of us who didn't from some of those who did.
Kevin Maguire
Words may not be able to express how profoundly disappointed I was with Man Of Steel. I can't tell you much I wanted to love it, how much I wanted to love ANY new Superman movie. Except for the second to last line in the movie, there was no wit to it. There was no charm, no warmth,elements which Iron Man and The Avengers had in spades.They rushed through his upbringing so that you have no real empathy with the character. As the big action climax is taking place, I couldn't care less what happened to anyone. Compare that to the new Star Trek, which got you to care about what happened to the characters. The plot was ridiculous! (WHY did Zod want Lois on his ship? Was there ANY credible explanation for that?) It just depresses me further that they gave the sequel and,even more horrifying, a Justice League movie to Goyer. When I walked out of Green Lantern, I was perplexed and bummed, but with this one, I'm flat out angry.
Back to the movie. I like that Lois figured out who Superman was fairily quickly. Unlike some others I thought Amy Adams looked too young to be playing Lois. Looking up her age now I am shocked she and I are almost the same age. She looked like she was in her 20s. It annoyed me that Superman never moved the fights outside of public spaces. It did not make sense for him to go through building after building without considering a change of venue. He unintentionally killed/hurt more people than he saved in the movie. That being said the action scenes were good. What they got right was the speed of the fights more than anything else for me. I like the flashbacks to his childhood. It gave the move some meat without having to sit through is childhood in sequence. There was some logic flaws near the end, but it did not kills the movie for me.
This movie reminded me a lot of the Incredible Hulk. It even had that conveniently cleared off arena for Superman/Zod to fight in.
Whenever my wife & I dissent on a subject, I always try to follow her thought process. It helps me see how she came to her conclusion. I still might not agree with it, but I'll understand it.
Same here on the forums. I'm trying to understand how people who don't like it came to their opinion (a lot of which I agree with), but at the same time convey how I came to my conclusion. I'm not trying to get people to agree with me (if it seems like I am), just understand.
I did get a little hostile when people were mixing up verbs. Saying Superman WOULD never kill is inaccurate because we've noted situations he did (regardless if you agree with them). I is accurate to say (and I agree on this) Superman SHOULD never kill.
M
I smiled.
It was the first remotely funny moment in what seemed like hours.
People would have laughed at a pie in the face at that point.
There's a reason James Bond used to quip after killing somebody: it helps dispel the horror.
I can be the only one who finds a flawed Superman interesting can I? He can't be in the same fight or flight mindset as we are? I know he has superpowers, but he was raised human. Its not like he knew any different.
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Who says Zod is dead any way? All those fisticuffs and a neck broken is what does it? Hmmm... I smell a plot twist for the third movie!?!?!
So, I don't want to see that happen...ever. In the theme & context of TDKR, I understand why it happened & why it had to be that way. Again, I don't necessarily agree with it (as a Batman comic book fan), but I understand it in the movie.
M