The Avengers

arrow23

I am wanting to get back into reading the Avengers, but there are so many different Avengers titles (New Avengers, Avengers, Secret Avengers, Avengers Assemble, Uncanny Avengers). Where do I begin? Is it even worth beginning? Help! Discuss!

Chuck_Melville

I'm a regular Avengers reader, and I feel your pain -- half the time, I don't know where to begin. :/

Chuck_Melville

Seriously. Half of the books do not feature distinctive teams, those that do blur the team members among more than one than one team. Cap is a member of three different teams. The only real continuity seems to be with those books directly involved in Infinity: Avengers, New Avengers and Avengers Assemble. The latter book is actually a 'wheel' book, wheeling off of any major storyline; right now, it's Infinity, before that it was part of a Captain Marvel storyline, next it will be connected to Inhumanity. The new Mighty Avengers title is sort of connected to Infinity.

Uncanny Avengers, Young Avengers, Secret Avengers and Avengers: AI all take place (so far as I can tell) before Infinity begins, and after Age Of Ultron, though in what order I couldn't honestly say. And I have no idea where Avengers Arena falls.

It'll only get worse: they just announced Avengers World for January.

David_D

Welcome aboard @arrow23

There are likely a lot more Avengers books then back when you read them before . And I get the way that can put someone off. But, another way to look at it is that there are a lot of flavors of Avengers right now. So you have a lot of different kinds to pick from. And there is no need or reason to read them all. And most of these titles recently relaunched with new #1s, so there are some easy starting points and jumping on points. Some people worry about how they all interconnect, and whether or not they are getting the entire story in the right order. But I am not assuming that by wanting to get back into reading the Avengers you, too, have to read and organize them all into one continuity. Especially when a number of these titles, like Secret Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Young Avengers, and Avengers Arena, have been left alone to do their own, distinctive thing. I think to the benefit of those titles.

So to try to help make a recommendation instead of a list of grievances, let me see if I can get a better sense of what you are looking for and connect you with the one you might like:

What got you interested in trying the Avengers again? It sounds like you used to read them before. When you did, what were some of the stories you really liked back then? And are you looking for something like that? Or something a little more esoteric? Back when you read Avengers, what do you feel really make an issue of Avengers feel like an issue of Avengers?

Chuck_Melville

David_D said:

There are likely a lot more Avengers books then back when you read them before . And I get the way that can put someone off. But, another way to look at it is that there are a lot of flavors of Avengers right now. So you have a lot of different kinds to pick from. And there is no need or reason to read them all. And most of these titles recently relaunched with new #1s, so there are some easy starting points and jumping on points. Some people worry about how they all interconnect, and whether or not they are getting the entire story in the right order. But I am not assuming that by wanting to get back into reading the Avengers you, too, have to read and organize them all into one continuity. Especially when a number of these titles, like Secret Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Young Avengers, and Avengers Arena, have been left alone to do their own, distinctive thing. I think to the benefit of those titles.

Personally, I find that works if you're only reading one or two of those titles instead of the whole gamut -- but if you're like me and you get them all, then a month's reading can be very confusing. How does title A connect with title F, and how can Teammember D be in seven books at once when the timelines don't seem to connect, and do I read book G before book B, or do those events continue later? And didn't Teammember J die six months ago!? How come he's still kicking around in Title C? And why are only four of these books involved with BigHonkingStory? What's wrong with the other books, which feature half of the characters in BHS, that these aren't also connecting!?!? YOU WANTED MY MONEY, GOLDANGIT!!! MAKE ME FEEL THAT IT WAS WORTH IT!!!!!

...you know... like that.

David_D

Chuck_Melville said:

David_D said:

There are likely a lot more Avengers books then back when you read them before . And I get the way that can put someone off. But, another way to look at it is that there are a lot of flavors of Avengers right now. So you have a lot of different kinds to pick from. And there is no need or reason to read them all. And most of these titles recently relaunched with new #1s, so there are some easy starting points and jumping on points. Some people worry about how they all interconnect, and whether or not they are getting the entire story in the right order. But I am not assuming that by wanting to get back into reading the Avengers you, too, have to read and organize them all into one continuity. Especially when a number of these titles, like Secret Avengers, Uncanny Avengers, Young Avengers, and Avengers Arena, have been left alone to do their own, distinctive thing. I think to the benefit of those titles.

Personally, I find that works if you're only reading one or two of those titles instead of the whole gamut -- but if you're like me and you get them all, then a month's reading can be very confusing. How does title A connect with title F, and how can Teammember D be in seven books at once when the timelines don't seem to connect, and do I read book G before book B, or do those events continue later? And didn't Teammember J die six months ago!? How come he's still kicking around in Title C? And why are only four of these books involved with BigHonkingStory? What's wrong with the other books, which feature half of the characters in BHS, that these aren't also connecting!?!? YOU WANTED MY MONEY, GOLDANGIT!!! MAKE ME FEEL THAT IT WAS WORTH IT!!!!!

...you know... like that.

To each their own, but personally, also reading all of them (albeit at different paces- most of them I am buying as they come out, but some of them I am waiting and reading later via Marvel Unlimited) the ways they interconnect or the possibility of Captain America being in so many places at the same time is of no interest or concern to me.

And, to be fair, has there ever been a time of character sharing actually made sense? How many decades ago did someone wonder why Batman, in an issue of Batman, didn't use a Justice League teleporter to get across Gotham in a second to disarm the bomb instead of driving real fast and almost not making it. You know what I mean? I don't know that these publishers ever promised that this would all make real sense if we as readers put our energy into finding the logic flaws.

Because, hell, these are stories of the impossible anyway. As long as each of them entertains and tells the story that it is telling well, than that is all that matters to me. Story is what matter to me, not the way that the stories do or don't run parallel to each other. Especially as the way that the books relate to each other soon becomes a footnote of publishing history. I want stories that are strong enough to be worth someone reading in trade 10 years from now. And any time spent justifying to the reader WHY this or that character could be where they are EXACTLY then, or where they are coming from or where they are off to is circumstantial and wasted space even six months later.

These are not continuity newspapers. They are stories. If the story entertains me, then I got what I wanted. And I want stories that can be excellent independent of the time and context they were told in. Tell me a good story that continues to be a good story. Don't just succeed at making March of 2014 believable to someone that decided to read all the Avengers books that month.

Others may want something different, and that is fine, but I would much rather the team on Book A be most concerned with THAT story and how it entertains rather than having to be bound by making absolute sure that their book falls in lockstep with 12 other books that happen to publish that month. To me, that is the tail wagging the dog. That is the world of top heavy editorial.

And one of the things I've loved about Marvel, particularly since '99-2000 on is that there seems to be more leeway. More room to let continuity be less the focus than the strength of the story at hand. For me, that had been a big part of letting there be some really distinctive, even esoteric gems, even involving characters that are heavily in demand across a wide line of books.

Chuck_Melville

I read my books when I get them, which is generally once a month when my monthly package arrives. I don't have the patience to wait until a storyline concludes to read all of the chapters together, especially since a number of these stories run on and on without cease. If I did that, I'd still be waiting for Chris Claremont to close out his subplots from the 80's.

And, given that Marvel built one of its cornerstones upon continuity within its universe, yes, I do expect there to be some continuity among its books, especially within a franchise where all of the same characters move in and out of the storylines. In most cases, it doesn't take much more than a footnote or two ("This issue takes place before BigHonkingStory #3.BFD..."). I've been given to expect that continuity. I do expect that continuity. I want that continuity. Granted that each book within a franchise should be allowed to find its own storylines, but that doesn't mean that each title is an island unto itself. They should be falling into lockstep; that lockstep is the icing on the cake.

Planeis

Chuck_Melville said:

I read my books when I get them, which is generally once a month when my monthly package arrives. I don't have the patience to wait until a storyline concludes to read all of the chapters together, especially since a number of these stories run on and on without cease. If I did that, I'd still be waiting for Chris Claremont to close out his subplots from the 80's.

And, given that Marvel built one of its cornerstones upon continuity within its universe, yes, I do expect there to be some continuity among its books, especially within a franchise where all of the same characters move in and out of the storylines. In most cases, it doesn't take much more than a footnote or two ("This issue takes place before BigHonkingStory #3.BFD..."). I've been given to expect that continuity. I do expect that continuity. I want that continuity. Granted that each book within a franchise should be allowed to find its own storylines, but that doesn't mean that each title is an island unto itself. They should be falling into lockstep; that lockstep is the icing on the cake.

I totally agree with you and the OP. I was never into the Avengers into the whole Marvel Movieverse came out. Tried reading Avengers, got confused beyond all recognition. Gave up.

Chuck_Melville

Planeis said:

I totally agree with you and the OP. I was never into the Avengers into the whole Marvel Movieverse came out. Tried reading Avengers, got confused beyond all recognition. Gave up.

And I'm sorry you had to give up because most of the Avengers titles are quite good. But that lack of continuity leads to confusion, even to a long-time stalwart reader like myself, and I can fully understand why someone who comes to it cold or after a long spell away would find it difficult to get into the new storylines.

If it helps, get the current series of Avengers and New Avengers by Jonathan Hickman that lead up into Infinity, and then get Infinity as well. That might help you through some of the confusion, and get a damned good story besides.

David_D

Chuck_Melville said:

I read my books when I get them, which is generally once a month when my monthly package arrives. I don't have the patience to wait until a storyline concludes to read all of the chapters together, especially since a number of these stories run on and on without cease. If I did that, I'd still be waiting for Chris Claremont to close out his subplots from the 80's.

And, given that Marvel built one of its cornerstones upon continuity within its universe, yes, I do expect there to be some continuity among its books, especially within a franchise where all of the same characters move in and out of the storylines. In most cases, it doesn't take much more than a footnote or two ("This issue takes place before BigHonkingStory #3.BFD..."). I've been given to expect that continuity. I do expect that continuity. I want that continuity. Granted that each book within a franchise should be allowed to find its own storylines, but that doesn't mean that each title is an island unto itself. They should be falling into lockstep; that lockstep is the icing on the cake.

And, let's be fair, continuity was a lot easier when your distributor limited your entire line to 8 titles a month, as National did to Marvel when the cornerstones of that universe were being built.

And I'm not suggesting that you have to wait to read your issues. Rather, I am reminding that the monthly reader is only one audience to these stories. A lot of readers will continue to read these stories in the future long past they appeared in your monthly box. So, to me, time and priority given to the stories falling into lockstep, or even covering over art with boxes that organize the make believe into an order is wasted time and wasted page space. And space is an issue is a finite resource, so giving a reader who wants what you want that attention to continuity and simultaneity is done at the expense of time and page space spent on the story at hand. Even a box that says "This is before Hawkeye fought the Russian mob in Hawkeye #8! covers over some art.

For me, as long as the issues of the periodical (e.g. Secret Avengers) tell a good story from issue to issue OF THAT TITLE, then they are doing their job. They are entertaining their readership, some of whom may read it the day it come out, some of whom may read it later. Some of whom may only read Secret Avengers, some of whom may choose to read every Avengers title in the franchise.

There will never be a way to please everyone. But I think, in the age of this content finding readers well beyond their month on the shelf, I think it is good to remember that what they would need to do to make everything be in perfect, simultaneous lockstep in a given month would likely only impact the minority of readers who will eventually read these stories over time.

Again, for me, continuity is great when it serves the story at hand-- for example, there was a beat in Avengers when Cap confides to Captain Marvel about the emotional experience he had away- in an absence no one knew about as it only took moments in our timeline or whatever- on Dimension Z, that took place in his solo title. It was a reference that served a story that was at hand- it made for an emotional beat, and strengthened Cap's relationship to and respect for Captain Marvel that he choose to confide in her. To me, that is the kind of continuity and intertextual stuff that adds. You know what wouldn't have added? A box in all the prior issues of Avengers and New Avengers to let me know that this story takes place before the events of Captain America #1. Because that actually had nothing to do with the story at hand. That is noise that distracts. Like the lower third promos during broadcast TV. No thanks. I say let the books talk to each other when it adds value. But I don't see continuity as this sort of contract between the publisher and us that must be served month to month.

arrow23

Thanks for all the help! The reason I want to get back to the Avengers reading is because back when I started reading comics an Avenger book was the first book I picked up. I love the team dynamic and the mix of different personalities and powers. I love Thor (currently reading Thor: God of Thunder which is awesome) and I loved seeing how he interacts in a team setting. I also love that you get a mix of characters with the Avengers and you get to see a character in a different setting. I personally really enjoyed Spiderman in Avengers vs. X-Men. It's all about the team dynamic for me.

Elsiebub

I would just try Hickman's stuff. Probably your best bet is to pick up the first issues/volumes of Avengers. And/or New Avengers if you know what the "Illuminati" is. If you dig whatever you try out, keep following both main series into Infinity.

I have no idea what the other QUOTE-UNQUOTE "Avengers" books are up to, or even if they remotely resemble the Avengers anymore. I enjoyed Avengers Academy a few years ago, but the successor series doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Avengers from what I can tell. I have no idea if Avengers Assemble has actually referenced Hickman's continuity pre-Infinity. I don't know what the heck they're doing with the brand as a whole. Uncanny Avengers has certainly seemed like its own side-continuity, for the time being, at least. I love it but it doesn't seem like an "Avengers" book based on anythign else that's going on.