Episode 1441 - Doctor Who - The Day of the Doctor and more

JamieD

The geeks sit down and digest this past weekend's 50th anniversary special of Doctor Who. We also discuss the 'An Adventure in Time and Space' telemovie and more. (1:06:51)

Listen here.

Mr_Cosmic

rebis

Yea Pants!

Day of the Doctor is the absolute best multi-Doctor story EVER!

EVER!

Just freaking awesome!

Just to speak to some of Shane's criticism. The inclusion of more Doctors would have bogged down the story. Hurt's Doctor worked as a stand in for all the "classic" Doctors. Smith and Tennant were like a couple of brothers, trading barbs and yet working together beautifully. And, at the same time showing Hurt's Doctor how the decision he made damages him.
There were a couple of moments that I could have imagined Eccleston's Doctor interacting with the three. However, Ecc's Doctor was so damaged by the Time War that, in hindsight, I'm happy that he decided not to participate.

As for the show not embracing it's past after the re-boot. That just had to be. Sometimes you can't put another layer of paint on an old table. Sometimes you've got to strip everything away and start clean. One of the problems with the Fox Who is that it didn't start clean. The opening sequence dumped all kinds of information on new viewers that wasn't necessary to the enjoyment of the show. The best thing the reboot did was introduce the Doctor with, " Nice to meet you, Rose. Run for your life!".
I have to be honest, folding the eras together has me a bit worried. The last thing Dr. Who needs is a return to celery, an amazing technicolor dream coat, and a question mark sweater vest.

Btw, you all need to go to radiofreeskaro.com and listen to the opening of their "Day of the Doctor" episode. It's a beautiful thing.

Caliban

@JamieD there are several good books about the origins of Doctor Who but if you want a good comprehensive (and free) history then the Doctor Who news site ran a very detailed 28 part look at the creation of the show in the run up to the anniversary.
The first chapter is here.

and the full list of articles is here

ShaneKelly

Don't get me wrong, I loved the show. I watched it again last night. I just don't think it is my absolute favorite Doctor Who episode ever. I shall dwell on this some more.

rebis

I don't think It's the best episode ever. It is the best multi-doctor episode, ever.

John_Steed

I don't want it to be the best episode ever.... [-(

......I demand even better ones :>

John_Steed

rebis said:

Btw, you all need to go to radiofreeskaro.com and listen to the opening of their "Day of the Doctor" episode. It's a beautiful thing.

Anyone claiming to be a Whovian needs to listen to that podcast on a regular basis.

Big_Daddy_Summers

Don't forget David Bradley who played William Hartnell in An Adventure In Space and Time was in Dinosaurs On A Spaceship. He is killed by the Doctor at the end.

P.S. Good to hear Pants again.

rebis

Speaking of "Adventure", between that and "Hide" I've developed a big crush on Jessica Raine. She was great in "Adventure".

Big_Daddy_Summers

Check out "Call the Midwife" for lots of Jessica (and Woman In Black)

bralinator

Great discussion men! Although I am hardly a Doctor Who fan, I did enjoy hearing Pants again.

rebis

Anyone catch the 5ish Doctors
John Barrowman's secret hetero family?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa!

ShaneKelly

I think we mention this in the episode but if not I still want to post these questions.

Would anyone go for Paul McGann spin off, tele-movies, reg movies? The John Hurt Doctor Movies or books for that matter?

Or

Do you all think each of these doctors are better as they are with little on screen time?

rebis

ShaneKelly said:

I think we mention this in the episode but if not I still want to post these questions.

Would anyone go for Paul McGann spin off, tele-movies, reg movies? The John Hurt Doctor Movies or books for that matter?

Or

Do you all think each of these doctors are better as they are with little on screen time?

Paul McGann spinoff? YES!

I'm not as interested in a War Doctor spinoff, but if Hurt is willing to do it then the more Dr. the better.

I don't understand what your trying to say with that last question, but I got up very early and I'm feeling a bit think right now.

JamieD

rebis said:

Anyone catch the 5ish Doctors
John Barrowman's secret hetero family?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa!

This discussion is in the missing 16 minutes. I am still not sure what happened to the recording but it just stopped and started again weird. I personally LOVED the 5ish Doctors and thought it was bloody brilliant, all involved seemed to be having a blast

gothamkid

rebis said:

As for the show not embracing it's past after the re-boot. That just had to be. Sometimes you can't put another layer of paint on an old table. Sometimes you've got to strip everything away and start clean. One of the problems with the Fox Who is that it didn't start clean. The opening sequence dumped all kinds of information on new viewers that wasn't necessary to the enjoyment of the show. The best thing the reboot did was introduce the Doctor with, " Nice to meet you, Rose. Run for your life!".
I have to be honest, folding the eras together has me a bit worried. The last thing Dr. Who needs is a return to celery, an amazing technicolor dream coat, and a question mark sweater vest.

That seemed to be more of a concern for Davies than Moffat. Moffat took over with Eleventh Hour so right away you had shots of all the incarnations, the Hartnell library card in Vampires of Venice, etc. And to be fair to Davies, he gave us classic aliens right off the bat, Sarah Jane/K9 return, and the diary in Family of Blood with the past Doctor's pictures.

Actually, I don't think Davies gets enough credit because his first season is a masterclass in how to slowly ground new viewers in a show with a rich history/rules:
1. Episode 1 - Introduce the Doctor, a companion, and the TARDIS (briefly)
2, Episode 2 - Travel to the future
3. Episode 3 - Travel to the past
4. Episode 4-5 - Bring it back to present Earth
5. Episode 6 - Introduce Daleks and remind the world why a single "pepperpot with a plunger) is THE most terrifying creature in the universe.
6. Episode 11 - If one Dalek is terrifying, bring in an armada/
7. Episode 12 - Introduce the concept of regeneration

ShaneKelly

rebis said:

ShaneKelly said:

Do you all think each of these doctors are better as they are with little on screen time?

I don't understand what your trying to say with that last question, but I got up very early and I'm feeling a bit think right now.

I just meant is it more Interesting to anyone for our imaginations to run wild on these two Doctors rather than have shows to define them.

rebis

ShaneKelly said:

rebis said:

ShaneKelly said:

Do you all think each of these doctors are better as they are with little on screen time?

I don't understand what your trying to say with that last question, but I got up very early and I'm feeling a bit think right now.

I just meant is it more Interesting to anyone for our imaginations to run wild on these two Doctors rather than have shows to define them.

I understand. Thanks.

AlbertCampion

Sorry for being the negative one, but I thought it was an average episode. I'm a classic Doctor Who fan and have never warmed to the new series, especially after Christopher Eccleston left. As a matter of fact, David Tennant is my least-favorite Doctor. While Matt Smith is better, and reminds me of the Second Doctor, he was still too young for the role. Anyway, I've listened to all the Big Finish monthly range titles, and the Eighth Doctor's stories, so I was thrilled with seeing Paul McGann in the Night of the Doctor. He has turned out to be a great Doctor. As for Day of the Doctor, I didn't like the retconning of John Hurt's "War Doctor." I was hoping he would turn out to be an anomaly and disappear at the end of the show. I did like the sort-of return of Gallifrey. I never liked the idea of the Doctor being the last of the Time Lords... it was always a treat when the Doctor returned to Gallifrey or encountered another Time Lord. For an anniversary story with past Doctors and companions, this one pales in comparison to the Five Doctors.

Greg

Watched it with my rugrats and really enjoyed it. My daughter claims it was "the most awesome thing ever!" The interaction and chemistry between Hurt, Tennant and Smith was amazing. I want to see more of Hurt as the Doctor. When Tom Baker showed up at the end, I may have sprung a small eye leak. I hope his role as the Curator is revisited. In regards to McGann, he needs more Doctor screen time. I don't know how, just get it done. Looking forward to to the Christmas episode.

i_am_scifi

PANTOLONES!!!!

Nice surprise. And Day of the Doctor was amazing.

gothamkid

Re: The sonic screwdriver. It first appeared with Troughron in Seeds of Death (I think) and was part of the Doctor's repertoire until the Davison story The Visitation when it was destroyed. They created a new one for the 1996 Movie (I don't remember if it got any screen time). The one in Night of the Doctor and Day of the doctor is a slightly modified version of the 1996 one.

LibraryBoy

First of all, the classic series sonic screwdriver (the one used by 4 & 5, anyway) was destroyed during the Peter Davison story "The Visitation." John Nathan-Turner thought it was too much of a deus ex machina thing (and as much as I like it, it kind of is, especially in the new series) so he wrote it out of the show and it didn't show up again until the TV movie. There was a "sonic lance" that turned up in one Colin Baker story, but I think that belonged to one of Eric Saward's leathered-up mercenary characters and the Doctor just used it in one scene (still got packed in with the action figure, though).

While I'd love to see more on-screen adventures with the 8th Doctor, I think that ship has sailed. However, thanks to the many novels, comics, and Big Finish audios McGann's version has appeared in, he may technically be the most-chronicled Doctor of them all. There's some irony for ya!

As for The Day of the Doctor itself... loved it. No, it may not have featured everyone and everything I would have wanted, but it did a good job of honoring the entire history of the show (the current series in particular, of course) and did a great job of being a celebration that also happened to be a really good story (the previous anniversary celebrations usually fell a bit flat in the plot department, and I say that as someone who has worn out like 3 copies of The Five Doctors from rewatching).

Moffat earned back a lot of fan capital he had burned off with me the past year or two, especially with the inclusion of John Hurt's War Doctor, who is all kinds of excellent (let's see some spin-off media with him!). I still refuse to renumber, but yeah, he's definitely the Doctor. =D>

Looking forward to what's next. Bring on the Christmas special and, especially, Peter Capaldi!

jaydee74

I thought the episode was amazing. There was so much that was right about it, I don't even know where to start. If there was anything that I could even possibly gripe about, it was the way Queen Elizabeth was portrayed in the story but it was so minimal to me that I let it go because of so many other things. I loved Tennant and Smith interacting with each other. I love when how John Hurt and Matt Smith making fun of Tennant's TARDIS and Tennant telling the TARDIS not to listen to them and then the classic Second Doctor's line "I see you redecorated. I don't like it" being used by Tennant to Smith's TARDIS. It was just amazing.

bralinator

Does anyone care to speculate why the licensed property doesn't seem to sell very well in the comics medium? I think it's somewhere around 10,000 issues monthly while My Little Pony is in the 60 - 80k range. Is there not much crossover, or are Dr. Who fans just not as hungry for non-canonical material? Do you collect the comics @Pants? Anyone else here?

FWIW: Discussing the overall history of licensed properties may actually be a solid show idea for producer @JamieD.

alienal

I didn't intend to listen to this episode (I'm not a Dr. Who fan at all), but since my iTunes is on continuous play and it was in the queue I just let it go. I do like you all's enthusiasm toward Dr. Who. I don't know if I'd ever get into it, but since you all like it so much, the possibility remains.

playdohsrepublic

bralinator said:

Does anyone care to speculate why the licensed property doesn't seem to sell very well in the comics medium? I think it's somewhere around 10,000 issues monthly while My Little Pony is in the 60 - 80k range. Is there not much crossover, or are Dr. Who fans just not as hungry for non-canonical material? Do you collect the comics @Pants? Anyone else here?

FWIW: Discussing the overall history of licensed properties may actually be a solid show idea for producer @JamieD.

I think it's definitely the non-canonical status. If the show were to go away and we were to get like a Season 30 book, that would sell like crazy, but as it stands they add very little to the property. The Doctor is never going to regenerate in the pages of a comic, none of the TV companions are going to leave or be introduced there. They are automatically little side stories. The Doctor Who/ST:TNG crossover did pretty well because it offered something you would never see on screen.

Something like Pony, or Adventure Time is directed at children who don't care much about canonicity set in universes where continuity is a secondary concern.

And something like GI Joe or Transformers, each medium is allowed to take the property in original directions. Star Wars has such a huge expanded universe that there is more freedom there too.