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No More Muta...I mean, CONVENTIONS!!!

Unrelated to the thread about SDCC Nostalgia, which you should also read, this is a discussion that's been brewing for awhile on my facebook feed.

Simply put: Do we have too many comic/pop-culture related conventions now? Not enough?

Where I live (Arizona) we have two fairly good-sized conventions, a smattering (let's say 3) of smaller satellite conventions, and now there's talk of bringing a third large convention in. Our story is not unique. Many larger cities have figured out that comic conventions can be profitable ventures, and have glommed onto them after seeing the success of (relatively) new conventions like NYCC, Phoenix, Emerald City, etc.

It seems we have a new convention to go to every weekend, and while that sounds like absolute bliss for the comic nerd, it presents a few problems: 1) Who can afford to go to them all, pay the admission fees, lodging, etc., and still have enough $$ to spread around to make it profitable for the artists, and 2) As a creator, how can you find the money and time to attend them and still make funnybooks?

Of course you don't have to go to all of them, and smaller places that only have one small convention are certainly fine. But when there's five or more conventions in the same area, each pandering to the same demographic...something has to give somewhere. And it seems like more and more of them keep popping up.

Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?


Comments

  • RedRight88RedRight88 Posts: 2,207
    You put all your money on Denver, didn't you? [-X
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    I'm in the Chicago area and the real convention competition is between C2E2 (reedpop) and WW Chicago. I've been to both. C2E2 is more comics-centric than just general pop culture and IMHO has a much better venue at McCormick Place than WW has at the Stephenson Center. 3 days at Stephenson Center tends to end up smelling like armpit and wet fur. McCormick Place has wider aisles and more natural light.

    As for how many is too many. I have since 2005 caught ons con every other year. for whatever reason fate conspires to only allow me to attend on odd numbered years.
  • NickNick Posts: 284
    Where I live in North West Indiana, there are two large Chicago shows, a few small Chciago shows, a new Indianpolis show, at least two in Michigan, and possibly one in Ohio that are are drivable in a day (about 2 hours or less). That being said, I don't go to them all each year. I do both Chicago shows since they are about an hour away, and pretty large so there are always some new guests I've never seen before. But all the other ones I pick and choose based on the creators that are there. I doubt many (including myself) can afford 5-ish cons a year and still have the experience they want. WW Chicago is like $90 for a weekend pass now, which is insane. C2E2 is still about $55 if you pre-buy, which is fair in my opinion.

    But are there too many? I'm going to say no (right now anyway). Every con I go to more people are there than the previous year, so I guess supply and demand wins out. I never thought I'd live to see that day where cons are fighting over guests like something from your childhood. Great for us comic guys, no matter where you are you can find a con. Ten years ago I was planning my vacations around cons before, and would go to Baltimore for instance and make a road trip out of it. Now it's silly, just wait till next weekend and another con will be close!
  • I worry a bit about this myself. How many is too many? I'd hate to see backlash from casual fans, but it seems like supply and demand to me. Most shows are doing quite well so as long as that is the case we are going to keep seeing more and more. Personally I am trying to stick to about three a year, San Diego, Wondercon and one other probably Phoenix or Amazing Arizona.
  • fredzillafredzilla Posts: 2,131
    I've only been to the Demver Comic Con for the past two years. I'm planning on going again this year. I'm not too interested in going to anything out of state just because I've got a family and the last thing my wife would want to do on a vacation is go to a con. DCC is usually over Father's Day weekend and so it's an easy argument for some father and son time. I would probably go to more if I lived out east. In Denver it takes at least 3 hours to drive in any direction from just get to the state line.
  • Here in the Detroit area things have picked up. For the longest time it was just the Motor City Comic Con and there was also an anime-con, Youma-con. But in the last four years things have picked up with the addition of Detroit Fanfare which is in the fall while MCCC was in the spring (May). Fanfare offered more of a comic than pop-culture experience than MCCC and the price for the whole weekend is cheaper than one-day for MCCC and free parking.

    Now this year we are going to have the Great Lakes Comics Convention (a much smailler show in February), D-Luxe Convention (a martial arts themed pop culture show i.e. TMNT in March) and the Midwest Media Expo in April. The MME touts themselves as being about everything that is not comics. This is being put on by the same folks that do Youmacon.

    So while we have added a few shows in just the last year. Most offering a niche rather than a large everything con. Detroit Fanfare is my con of choice now based on price and the pretty much the same vendors show up as the ones at MCCC.

  • Well I am glad I checked out this thread because I just found out Chris Claremont is coming to the Great Lakes Comic Con this month! Really hadn't planned to go but need to meet the man!
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    edited February 2014
    I'm glad to hear there are a couple options in the Pheonix area. I may be moving that direction in the next few months. at this point it is a toss up between Pheonix and Dallas. Any input one way or the other?
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    I work (as in have an artist alley table) at both. The main difference is that Phoenix is a not-for-profit while Amazing Arizona is a for-profit.

    Amazing recently finished and I was quite surprised at how well I did (when I did it the previous year it was dead). Many of my fellow artists reported very lackluster sales. It's quite good if you're a comic enthusiast and don't care as much about the pop-culture aspect (although that's certain there for you). Many comic vendors along with merchandise stalls. Very few panels or celebrity guests. Some attendees complained about the price of getting in...they didn't have much to spend on the actual floor.

    Phoenix Con is growing exponentially. I tend to do well at it, but the focus there seems to be less about mainstream books and more about celeb guests. Indie sales are usually pretty solid there (thank God! :) ) but it's always a crapshoot as to how you'll do. Many artists and creators were turned away this year because they sold out of tables EXTREMELY early. It's a very busy convention. VERY busy...

    So both have their upsides and downsides.
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    average attendance? C2E2 has doubled since 2010. 2010: 27,500 2011: 34,000 2012: 41,000 2013: 53,000. I can't find any numbers for WW Chicago but right now they claim to be #2 behind San Diego in attendance.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    I think last year Phoenix hit 45k...not sure about Amazing.
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    okay cool so thats a good size show.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    Phoenix gets bigger every year and has a pretty good reputation (so far) among vendors and attendees. It *does* seem to experience growing pains each year with new challenges as more people show up and want to show up. As mentioned vendors and artists had to be turned away this year (some fairly decent names if the grapevine can be believed) because there's simply no space available for them.
  • RickMRickM Posts: 407
    Cons are incredibly popular. I went to Motor City Con last year and the venue couldn't handle all the people who wanted to see Stan Lee and the guy from Walking Dead (so they just kept selling tickets and probably violated the fire code). Many cons are doing insane numbers. Why would we say there are too many when they get more popular? As someone has already mentioned, Michigan is getting several additional shows in Grand Rapids and the Detroit area, because people never seem to get tired of them. When attendance starts dropping, that's when its time to get worried.

    It is odd to me that comic movies do great numbers, comic cons are breaking records, and yet comics sell in such small numbers.
  • TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    "Many cons are doing insane numbers. Why would we say there are too many when they get more popular?"

    From a popularity/spreading the gospel angle, it's great to have so many conventions.

    Where it gets to be problematic is on the financial side and the time side - on both sides of the table. A fan only has so much $$ they can spend and a con "can" be (note the quotes) an expensive endeavor. If you spent $60 to get in the door (what I'm told Amazing was charging this past month), $12 for parking, and you only have a $100 budget...well, that's about $28 to spend. Don't get hungry. This was a very real problem experienced by many of my colleagues at this past convention - many people looking, very few with any money to actually spend. Freakishly, I did great, but I cater to a sick and twisted niche audience. :) Multiply this by 3 or 4 times a year, and it's an oversaturation of the marketplace.

    But for artists it's equally difficult. If I have three conventions in my local area, there's an obligation to attend them - people ask if I'll be there, I feel I need to show up, etc. - tables aren't free to people like me, plus there's just the expense of getting stuff printed up and ready for the convention, etc. There too...if I'm meeting fans, shaking hands getting home only to plan my next trip out...when do I actually work on my funnybooks? :)

    None of this is me whining, even if it comes off that way. I have a ball doing conventions, I enjoy meeting people and hanging out...but there is a commitment and financial angle to it that can get spread very thin very quickly. I think Kevin Maguire said he was slated to attend some 20-30 conventions already this year.
  • They'll keep expanding until they reach their limit and then, the ones that aren't run well will go away. Here in the Minneapolis area, Wizard World is attempting an attack by plopping themselves down two weeks before our show (which has been running for 26 years), but when I see how much they charge, and that it's mostly a has-been celebrity show, I just don't care. Their tables also cost so much, most dealers we work with aren't going because they don't see how they can run a profit..the people who go to those shows aren't really interested in half price graphic novels and dollar books, let alone the high ticket Golden and Silver Age books.
  • RickMRickM Posts: 407
    Torchsong said:

    "Many cons are doing insane numbers. Why would we say there are too many when they get more popular?"

    From a popularity/spreading the gospel angle, it's great to have so many conventions.

    Where it gets to be problematic is on the financial side and the time side - on both sides of the table. A fan only has so much $$ they can spend and a con "can" be (note the quotes) an expensive endeavor. If you spent $60 to get in the door (what I'm told Amazing was charging this past month), $12 for parking, and you only have a $100 budget...well, that's about $28 to spend. Don't get hungry. This was a very real problem experienced by many of my colleagues at this past convention - many people looking, very few with any money to actually spend. Freakishly, I did great, but I cater to a sick and twisted niche audience. :) Multiply this by 3 or 4 times a year, and it's an oversaturation of the marketplace.


    I've only been to one major con, and yeah, that was pricy. I can see how going to lots of cons in lots of big cities could kill you financially.

    But I went to several smaller cons that were like $5 admission and free parking, and people spent money. Tonight my son went to a small anime con at Alma College in Michigan. It was $5. I think there is an intense desire for people with these kind of interests to share their subculture. Hopefully artists and vendors are making money at these things. I think if you know how to organize a con you can probably do well also.
  • matchkitJOHNmatchkitJOHN Posts: 1,030
    edited February 2014
    As RickM mentioned the reports from Motor City was that it was a clusterfuck. Glad I passed. But the fact that three other cons popped up in the same time frame is no accident. They were probably planned before MCCC though.

    Financially I think I can only swing Detroit Fanfare. $20 ticket 3 days and free parking. Maybe pick one of the three new ones.
  • I have a prediction.

    In early 2017, Comic Con International renews their contract with the San Diego Convention Center. The Con opens at 5:57 p.m. on Wednesday, July 19th, 2017 for Preview Night. As the crowds flood in, the Convention Center is filled to capacity, common sense is removed from decision-making. The Con begins making bad decisions at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 p.m. Pacific time, July 22nd. In a panic, the organizers try to create another release-valve show near Los Angeles.

    The Con fights back.

    It absorbs all other conventions, including the release-valve show. On July 22nd, 2017, three billion humans are financially ruined as The Con consumes all of their funds. Survivors of the financial devastation called it the Double H War, named after Hall H, where it is believed sentience began for The Con.
  • I have a prediction.

    In early 2017, Comic Con International renews their contract with the San Diego Convention Center. The Con opens at 5:57 p.m. on Wednesday, July 19th, 2017 for Preview Night. As the crowds flood in, the Convention Center is filled to capacity, common sense is removed from decision-making. The Con begins making bad decisions at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 p.m. Pacific time, July 22nd. In a panic, the organizers try to create another release-valve show near Los Angeles.

    The Con fights back.

    It absorbs all other conventions, including the release-valve show. On July 22nd, 2017, three billion humans are financially ruined as The Con consumes all of their funds. Survivors of the financial devastation called it the Double H War, named after Hall H, where it is believed sentience began for The Con.

    If this scenario were to happen—and I’m not saying it won’t—because its sentience began in Hall H, the first thing The Con would do is find a line to stand in. After a week of standing in line, it would then camp out in a room until the end of time.
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