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Comic Book Combat, Fight #2: Dark Knight vs Super Soldier

2

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  • WetRats said:


    What? You think Diana's just gonna buy some pretty accessories?

    Yeah, but Batman is part MacGyver though.
  • Matt said:


    I know, but I don't like when people use him as the ultimate superhero. He has weaknesses just as much as other characters. If not, how come his evil counterparts aren't the only ones left standing?

    M

    Oh, I agree. Allow me to offer up "Exhibit 1" ... arguably the greatest ass-kicking he ever received (and a big reason why 24 hour prep time and $500 at Walmart are game changers :D )

    image
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    edited April 2014
    Matt said:

    That's like saying Superman always wins these things because he's Superman.

    In that bracket, he too should have been eliminated in the first round.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
  • WetRats said:


    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*

    Because they need to sell comics? :-)

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited April 2014
    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
    Because apparently, Bruce Wayne has been willing to fund Batman & his Inc. over the years, but never offered to fund Arkham or Blackgate Prison to make them secured.

  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
    Because apparently, Bruce Wayne has been willing to fund Batman & his Inc. over the years, but never offered to fund Arkham or Blackgate Prison to make them secured.
    Ot-nay oo-tay art-smay.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
    Because Arkham has the worse security imaginable. :D
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    luke52 said:

    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
    Because Arkham has the worse security imaginable. :D
    And with all his alleged brilliance, Batman can't do anything about it?
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
    Because Arkham has the worse security imaginable. :D
    And with all his alleged brilliance, Batman can't do anything about it?
    He doesn't own the place!

    M
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    WetRats said:

    luke52 said:

    Batman has a plan for everyone. He'd win. And, Cap is too fair to beat Batman.

    Ah, the great myth of Batman's brilliance.

    If Batman's so freaking smart, why does he spend all his time fighting the same lunatics over and over and over again?*






    *Don't get me started on Superman.
    Because Arkham has the worse security imaginable. :D
    And with all his alleged brilliance, Batman can't do anything about it?
    He doesn't own the place!

    M
    Why not?
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited April 2014
    Don't forget-- shipping costs should eat into that $500. No Walmarts in NYC ;)

    (If I were Batman, I would probably rather a Home Depot anyway. . . we've got plenty of those.)
  • BondoBondo Posts: 57
    edited April 2014
    Pretty hard to make a call on these matchups where imaginary characters have fairly vague attributes. Granted when I think "super strength" thats pretty much a game changer. Anyone who's ever been in a fight or even competative fighting will tell you that weight class goes a long way depending on how the fight progresses. And when we talk "Super strength" i take that to mean stronger than any human being has ever been in the history of human beings. When you really see the damage that the strongest human beings can lay on each other, I can't say I would take batman in a fight over anyone with super strength for that reason. At least not if the same fight was run several times.

    This isn't to speak ill of trained fighters, but even they will tell you that a champion featherweight versus a sub-champion pro heavyweight fighter is not gonna fare as well unless he gets just the right submission, hit, shot etc.

    With this thread's fight specifically in mind, I realize that Cap isnt necessarily "Super strength" depending on your version of his abilities, But I feel like batman would be spending the entire fight avoiding getting hit. He would have to get lucky with every swing, whereas Cap would have to get lucky ONCE because that one hit probably knocks Bats the eff out.

    Again, it really depends if we are talking real-world fight with fiction-world abilities, or comic-world fight with the same fiction-world abilities. In a comic fight I could see either of them winning for so many different reasons.

    I'm much more of a Batman fan, but in a real-world physics-and-human-body-rules-apply fight, Cap probably ends up seriously injuring Batman to the point of hospitilization (if not outright killing him), unless Bats gets a tremendous start.

    That tremendous start is going to have to come from the gadgets, but I don't think the gadgets will work enough times to say that bats wins most of the time.

    Again this is mostly based on real-world fight based on comic book characters. All bets are off in comic-world fight....as discussed in in the above Dark Knight Returns example.

    Ultimate warrior style: I think Cap wins this fight 8 or 9 times out of 10. If it's Movie Cap, I would say thats closer to 9.9 times out of 10 with all 9.9 of those times ending in a Bruce Wayne funeral.

    Advantage: Cap
  • David_D said:

    Don't forget-- shipping costs should eat into that $500. No Walmarts in NYC ;)

    (If I were Batman, I would probably rather a Home Depot anyway. . . we've got plenty of those.)

    They bus them to Jersey.

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Bondo said:

    Pretty hard to make a call on these matchups where imaginary characters have fairly vague attributes. Granted when I think "super strength" thats pretty much a game changer. Anyone who's ever been in a fight or even competative fighting will tell you that weight class goes a long way depending on how the fight progresses. And when we talk "Super strength" i take that to mean stronger than any human being has ever been in the history of human beings. When you really see the damage that the strongest human beings can lay on each other, I can't say I would take batman in a fight over anyone with super strength for that reason. At least not if the same fight was run several times.

    This isn't to speak ill of trained fighters, but even they will tell you that a champion featherweight versus a sub-champion pro heavyweight fighter is not gonna fare as well unless he gets just the right submission, hit, shot etc.

    With this thread's fight specifically in mind, I realize that Cap isnt necessarily "Super strength" depending on your version of his abilities, But I feel like batman would be spending the entire fight avoiding getting hit. He would have to get lucky with every swing, whereas Cap would have to get lucky ONCE because that one hit probably knocks Bats the eff out.

    Again, it really depends if we are talking real-world fight with fiction-world abilities, or comic-world fight with the same fiction-world abilities. In a comic fight I could see either of them winning for so many different reasons.

    I'm much more of a Batman fan, but in a real-world physics-and-human-body-rules-apply fight, Cap probably ends up seriously injuring Batman to the point of hospitilization (if not outright killing him), unless Bats gets a tremendous start.

    That tremendous start is going to have to come from the gadgets, but I don't think the gadgets will work enough times to say that bats wins most of the time.

    Again this is mostly based on real-world fight based on comic book characters. All bets are off in comic-world fight....as discussed in in the above Dark Knight Returns example.

    Ultimate warrior style: I think Cap wins this fight 8 or 9 times out of 10. If it's Movie Cap, I would say thats closer to 9.9 times out of 10 with all 9.9 of those times ending in a Bruce Wayne funeral.

    Advantage: Cap

    I see where you're coming from, but I still say Batman. We're not strictly talking boxing. We're talking more UFC or a street fight. When I spar in kickboxing, I have to go against larger opponents (taller, bulkier, & stronger.) Part of fighting is knowing how to give AND take punches (and kicks, headbutts, etc.) Plus, Cap fights with more honor then Batman. He's a dirty fighter always assessing his opponents. Cap would use his shield, Batman would 'take' that away & counter with an array of other things.

    M
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    I see where you're coming from, but I still say Batman. We're not strictly talking boxing. We're talking more UFC or a street fight. When I spar in kickboxing, I have to go against larger opponents (taller, bulkier, & stronger.) Part of fighting is knowing how to give AND take punches (and kicks, headbutts, etc.) Plus, Cap fights with more honor then Batman. He's a dirty fighter always assessing his opponents. Cap would use his shield, Batman would 'take' that away & counter with an array of other things.

    M

    How does "honor" enter into a compulsory deathmatch?

    I'd say it would enter by Cap, a veteran soldier who has killed before when he had to, getting it over as quickly and mercifully as possible.

    I don't care how "dirty" Bats fights, Cap's seen it all before, and remember it's not just Batman who gets to go shopping.

    (The whole $500 at Walmart and 24 hours conceit is clearly a sop to those who buy into the myth that Batman can take anyone if he's prepared.)
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited April 2014
    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    I see where you're coming from, but I still say Batman. We're not strictly talking boxing. We're talking more UFC or a street fight. When I spar in kickboxing, I have to go against larger opponents (taller, bulkier, & stronger.) Part of fighting is knowing how to give AND take punches (and kicks, headbutts, etc.) Plus, Cap fights with more honor then Batman. He's a dirty fighter always assessing his opponents. Cap would use his shield, Batman would 'take' that away & counter with an array of other things.

    M

    How does "honor" enter into a compulsory deathmatch?

    I'd say it would enter by Cap, a veteran soldier who has killed before when he had to, getting it over as quickly and mercifully as possible.

    I don't care how "dirty" Bats fights, Cap's seen it all before, and remember it's not just Batman who gets to go shopping.

    (The whole $500 at Walmart and 24 hours conceit is clearly a sop to those who buy into the myth that Batman can take anyone if he's prepared.)
    Are we adding Wolverine & Snake-Eyes to his opponent list? I wouldn't put bets on Batman in either of those matches.

    Each time that I've read the 2 square off against each other it ended in a stalemate. The one time it wasn't a stalemate was when Cap fell into a stream of sewer water & Batman hit him in the head with a batarang. Cap handed over his shield conceding the fight.

    I think you underrate Batman as much as you think I overrate him. Unless we're talking about the Batman who fell for a trap by Louie the Lilac. In that case, yes he's overrated.

    M
  • WetRats said:

    (The whole $500 at Walmart and 24 hours conceit is clearly a sop to those who buy into the myth that Batman can take anyone if he's prepared.)

    Eh, true to some extent. It wasn't just for Batman, but any of the non-superpowered beings. It was meant to "even the playing field" a bit as, imo, in (fake) reality, the superpowered folks would totally annihilate the non-superpowered ones.

    It was a lot of fun, going on for well over a month. Every day I'd have 2 poll threads going, and as the board has over 125,000 members, you can imagine there would be some pretty furious debates going on over some of those battles. [/nostalgia mode off]
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    I think you underrate Batman as much as you think I overrate him. Unless we're talking about the Batman who fell for a trap by Louie the Lilac. In that case, yes he's overrated.

    M

    Is it possible to underrate someone whose archenemy is a clown?

    B-)
  • WetRats said:


    Is it possible to underrate someone whose archenemy is a clown?

    B-)

    No.

    image
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    I think you underrate Batman as much as you think I overrate him. Unless we're talking about the Batman who fell for a trap by Louie the Lilac. In that case, yes he's overrated.

    M

    Is it possible to underrate someone whose archenemy is a clown?

    B-)
    Doesn't a guy playing with toys give Superman a run for his money? Same with a certain imp? Does a guy who pulls tricks sometimes get the better of Flash?

    M
  • BondoBondo Posts: 57
    Also, I know the rules didnt stipulate deathmatch, but I think we all know batman loses that every single time.... unless he finds a away to "not save" someone, since he wont kill :P

  • How did they determine the seeds/matchups?

    For shits and giggles (I never quite understood that term, but use it nonetheless), here's my old bracket from 2003:

    image
    image

  • How did they determine the seeds/matchups?

    I had a group of posters who were part of the "Sub-Committee on Seedings." (No, seriously. I did)

    :-)

  • batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    Gut instinct / reaction says Batman for the win. Absolutely if given advance intel and or notice. However I can envision a scenario where Cap could win. Mainly due to his enhanced stamina which could wear down batman allowing cracks to appear in his armor for Cap to exploit. Otherwise, formidible as he is, I consider bats ultimately a better fighter.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    Doesn't a guy playing with toys give Superman a run for his money? Same with a certain imp? Does a guy who pulls tricks sometimes get the better of Flash?

    M

    Sure Toyman's a bit embarrassing, but that "certain imp" has the power to alter reality at the speed of thought!
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    Doesn't a guy playing with toys give Superman a run for his money? Same with a certain imp? Does a guy who pulls tricks sometimes get the better of Flash?

    M

    Sure Toyman's a bit embarrassing, but that "certain imp" has the power to alter reality at the speed of thought!
    I thought we were talking about comedic adversaries.

    M
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    Doesn't a guy playing with toys give Superman a run for his money? Same with a certain imp? Does a guy who pulls tricks sometimes get the better of Flash?

    M

    Sure Toyman's a bit embarrassing, but that "certain imp" has the power to alter reality at the speed of thought!
    I thought we were talking about comedic adversaries.

    M
    I thought we were talking about embarrassing adversaries.

    Superman: My archenemy is the smartest man on Earth.

    Green Lantern: My archenemy is a rogue member of the Corps and my former mentor.

    Aquaman: My archenemy is my half-brother and rival for my throne.

    Flash: My archenemy is my evil opposite with matching powers.

    Wonder Woman: My archenemy is the God of War.

    Batman: My archenemy is an evil clown.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited April 2014
    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    WetRats said:

    Matt said:

    Doesn't a guy playing with toys give Superman a run for his money? Same with a certain imp? Does a guy who pulls tricks sometimes get the better of Flash?

    M

    Sure Toyman's a bit embarrassing, but that "certain imp" has the power to alter reality at the speed of thought!
    I thought we were talking about comedic adversaries.

    M
    I thought we were talking about embarrassing adversaries.

    Superman: My archenemy is the smartest man on Earth.

    Green Lantern: My archenemy is a rogue member of the Corps and my former mentor.

    Aquaman: My archenemy is my half-brother and rival for my throne.

    Flash: My archenemy is my evil opposite with matching powers.

    Wonder Woman: My archenemy is the God of War.

    Batman: My archenemy is an evil clown.
    So, the most powerful man alive has an arch villain armed with a degree?

    See an Eco-Terrorist as the archenemy then the clown. Actually, I've always thought Lex made the best Bat-villain.

    Flash's archenemy is considered his opposite? The Rogues have also come to mind before the Reverse.

    M

    Its amazing Batman gets an respect only having to fight psychos! And even though he's essentially on par with Lex, Batman can't do anything but be a bum at this crime fighting gig!
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