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Episode 1495 Talkback - BOMC: Saga, Vol. 1 and 2
Adam_Murdough
Posts: 506
It's the story of Alana and Marko--lovers, fighters, new parents, deserters from both sides of a vast interstellar conflict as ancient as it is senseless--who defy all odds to seek a new life for themselves and for their new baby girl, somewhere among the stars. It's a tale of love and war, comedy and tragedy, sci-fi concepts and family values. It's SAGA, the smash-hit space opera/romantic comedy/action/adventure comic by Brian K. Vaughan and Fiona Staples, and in this episode covering the first 12 issues of the ongoing series, it commands the Geeks' full attention! (1:14:44)
This is how an episode becomes real...
This is how an episode becomes real...
Comments
Secondly, the role of the Robot Kingdom... The war between Landfall and Wreath has over the generations become a proxy war, with many nation-worlds fighting for one side or the other throughout the galaxy. The Robot Kingdom is chief among these proxies on the side of Landfall. They command Landfall forces but are more like a sovereign ally. The irony is that the war has expanded so far with these proxies that within the planetary/lunar system of Landfall and Wreath it's actually quite peaceful, with both sides preferring to have their battles fought for them far away from home.
This is one of the truly great books of the era and I hope the CGS crew revisits it in a year or two for another BOMC episode.
Contrast this to something like . . . Preacher, where I think the sex (and violence, for that matter) really adds up to something and says a lot about the characters. With Saga I think the sex stuff is kind of superfluous or disjointed: cheap laughs and quips. I can't quite put my finger on why I feel it doesn't work for me. It's NOT just because Saga is more cartoony than something like Preacher, because there are other more fantastical cartoony works (Cerebus, for one) in which sex stuff works quite well and actually builds up to deep, unique characterizations. You guys mentioned how the dialogue seems sort of like sitcom dialogue, and in that regard I'd say most of the sexual content only serves the characterizations in fairly mundane "sitcom-y" sorts of ways. It just seems thrown in there to pander to the audience.
That's not to say I'm down on Saga. I like Saga. I've read it from the beginning and would definitely say it was a four-out-of-five-star book or whatever. I just don't think it's a creme-of-the-creme-of-the-creme-of-the-crop book like so many other people apparently do. I'm just not as high on BKV as other people are. I've read a lot of his work... and I've liked ALL of his work that I've read... but I always like it on a 4- or 3.5-star level. I've never been blown away by it. People act like he's the best writer of the last ten years. And while I like him and wouldn't think it ridiculous to see his name on a top ten list, to me his craft and characterizations just aren't nearly as good as, say, Ed Brubaker's.
But people are saying that Saga is some sort of really innovative work. To me the paradox is that it isn't innovative or original hardly at all... and yet it still seems quite fresh and I'd be hard pressed to name another comic out there that's like Saga. All aspects within the work, from the plot to the characters, seem retreads of things I've seen dozens of times before -- and, please, interspecies sexual content is nothing new in science fiction, or in comic books; those "boundaries" have been pushed a long time ago -- but the overall work still somehow seems quite unique. It's like a really good remix of different things. Even if it isn't unique, it SEEMS like it is. And it's fun to read. And Vol. 3 was the best yet, imo.
The one aspect of Saga that I DON'T think is overrated is Staples' art. She deserves all the credit she's gotten and is clearly one of the -- if not THE -- top comic artists and character designers out there right now.
As for nothing being lost, and of course this is a matter of opinion and preference, but for me if you remove the frankness of the nudity and sexuality from the story, I would feel that it is less a story about adult life and relationships. Which is what it is. I would relate and recognize it less as being about adult like. I would say the same for the language.
The strength of the series for me is that- while simultaneously being a space fantasy about a star crossed family on the run- it is also about marriage and parenthood. There are actually very few genre comics that include or focus on those elements. Sex is a part of adult life. I don't think it is there to titillate or shock me anymore than I take the sex in an Updike novel to be there to seem edgy. Rather, it makes me feel like I am reading a story set in the grown-up world. That doesn't just have violence and adventure in it, and motivating it, but sex (and birth), too.
And I respect that may not be the comic that some readers want. But, for me, so far in the series the on-panel nudity and sex has been as essential to the plot, and worlds, of the story as the on-panel graphic violence.
It also didn't help with a small amount yet vocal group of people saying the likes of "if you don't like or aren't reading Saga, you're a f---ing idiot, a damn fool" or insert some other explative insult you would like. That does nothing to help your cause. Sell me on the story, tell me why you enjoy reading it, tell me why I should read it. So just stop it, it's not fair to the creators of the book.
As with most titles that I don't read myself, I like reading and hearing others talk about the stuff they're reading. There is always a chance that something said urges me to give a title that I passed on another try.
More on topic, if the hosts are reading this thread, what did you think of the letter columns or did everyone on the episode read from the trade collections? The letter columns are super fun and go a long way to showcase the variety of readers the book is attracting. Here's hoping Fiona Staples makes her way to Emerald City in the Spring!
Personally, I always find it strange that we are so much more uncomfortable with the "Sex, Love, and Life" themes than the "Violence, Hate and Death" themes, even though we are all more likely to encounter the former.
Again, that is not to say that everyone should love it, or if there is anything wrong with you if you don't like it, or even try a second issue. You like what you like. But I would say that the numbers it sells- especially for an indie, non-licensed, original title- indicate that it is maybe not so polarizing. I feel like it might be downplaying the success and appeal of this book to say that it is for a certain audience. Because the numbers just make it look like a pretty broad success. In a crowded market, usually ruled by the Big 2, it has found a Big 2 sized audience.
Sure, there might be some of us that vocally really love it, and some who may vocally really not. That may seem polarizing. But somewhere in the middle there are a lot of people who are consistently buying it. In numbers that a lot of Marvel and DC books would love to have:
Consider:
1. Marco and Alana are different species, Hazel's birth is miraculous or scientifically unlikely.
2. Her birth is a possibility to bridge a division or schism. In the case of Christ, reconciling humanity to God.
3. Her birth is considered threatening to the established order, outsiders are sent to find her, her life is threatened.
4. Her parents are forced to flee.
5. A supernatural force is instrumental in making her escape and safeguarding her (Isabel).
6. A book that is very open to interpretation is instrumental in making her birth possible.
Am I missing any other parallels? Sorry if I didn't flesh out my theories quite enough, this isnt an academic paper...yet
I'm with Murd on Hazel's narration. I particularly like the way the writer is able to use it to seamlessly segue to the next scene. It's a well thought out book.
I am glad however that the book is doing so well. While Saga may not work for me, its success may led publishers to get behind a non supjer hero project that I will enjoy.