Episode 1517 Talkback - Doctor Who: The Twelfth Doctor in Comics and TV

Adam_Murdough

Shane and Pants break out the Doctor Who talk on the 12th Doctor as portrayed by Peter Capaldi. They discuss the new 12th Doctor comic from Titan Comics as well as the recently ended 8th season of the TV Show. 'Tell me... am I a good man?' (51:12)

Listen here.

RepoMan

Awesome!

Mr_Cosmic

I'm looking forward to listening to this! It was a great season and I'm pumped for the Christmas special.

You guys couldn't stretch it out for another 48 seconds to reach 52(!) minutes? ;)

rebis

I really enjoyed Series 8. The level of maturity in the relationship between Dr. and Clara was something very different for Dr. Who. However, having said that I can understand the anger some fans have had toward the last season. Some feel that the elevation of Clara means that, to some extent, the Dr. has been diminished. JC's name and eyes coming before PCap's in the series finale was, for some, the straw that broke the camel's back.
I don't feel that way. As long as I can remember, fans have wanted stronger companions pointing to the example of Sarah Jane Smith. These same fans seem to forget that as Sarah's adventures went along, she become more and more the damsel in distress. To the extent that when her journey ends, she's weeping like a little girl and wearing something akin to a clown suit.
Another reason for the anger is that the much hyped Cybermen, didn't do much more than shuffle about. In this, I have to agree. Perhaps it's the format of the show since the reboot. Cybermen are essentially zombies. Perhaps with the new episode structure, there isn't enough time to build them into a threat? I don't know, but it seems a waste of a great "legacy" monster.
In the end, Series 8 wasn't about monsters, villains, boyfriends, etc. It was about two people redefining a friendship. In that, the show succeeded marvelously.

LibraryBoy

I really, really, really hated Danny Pink. Enough that I was actually kinda happy he came to a bad end. He complains about the Doctor being too strong a presence in Clara's life, and that the Doctor orders her around, controls her, etc. And how does he deal with that? By ordering her around and trying to control her. In a series known for companions' bad boyfriends, he takes the cake... especially since we saw that Mickey grew out of it and Rory was actually pretty impressive all along (we were just underestimating him since our initial glimpses were as Amy saw him). Danny just stayed Danny. Ugh. Good riddance.

As for the Cybermen... I don't think the new series has ever done particularly well by them. As silly and camp as they often were in the original series (where they removed every emotion but snarkiness and hubristic pride, apparently), in the new series they're just Borg Lite. Always with the conversion! They've been used well in cameos (like the one guarding the Pandorica, or the ones Rory threatens at the start of A Good Man Goes to War), but the full episodes always feel lacking to me, which is too bad because they were always one of my favorite classic series monsters. Maybe I just liked David Banks's line delivery... "Excellent! Earth WILL be destroyed!" :-B

Legitimately didn't see Missy being the Master. I thought it was going to be the Rani (using Cybermen and hijacking the consciousnesses of every dead person ever sounds like the sort of thing she'd do in the name of her own brand of scientific exploration), but when she said Missy was short for "Mistress", there was one brief moment there where I thought "Oh, shit, she's Romana!" Especially given she was wearing a darker version of a costume you could easily see Lalla Ward wearing. I'm sure this was intentional, and while I'm glad they went the way they did, it'd might have been interesting the other way. Regardless, Michelle Gomez was awesome and I hope that's not the last we see of her version of the Master/Mistress.

LibraryBoy

As for the finale itself, I loved part 1... it was creepy and suspenseful enough that even though I knew the Cybermen figured it, I was still surprised how everything played out. I didn't care for a lot of the second part, though. As I said above, I hated Danny so I felt no sympathy for his plight at all. And I thought the idea of the Walking CyberDead was kind of silly, especially since they didn't do much more than just kinda stumble around. Why go to all that build up just to have them not do anything? Plus, at this point, they're stupidly overpowered now that they can fly and self-replicate.

And CyberBrigadier was just ridiculous. I know it was supposed to be a moment and all, but it was just a silly way to get out of an "Oh, wait, we can't kill her, too" situation.

And speaking of, they killed my Osgood. That's just mean, man. And did you notice, she wasn't just wearing a bow tie, but also a Tennant suit and red Chucks? =((

I dunno, I liked parts of it - the Master doing all of this just to get the Doctor's attention? Yeah, that makes sense, especially considering the way their relationship has been written all the way back to the Pertwee/Delgado days - but it felt like a great build-up that couldn't stick the landing. Not that that's unique to this season, mind you (Moffat and RTD both have had troubles there), but still.

rebis

I didn't hate Danny. To me he came across as a guy that's had his adventures and didn't feel the need to join in on Clara's. At the same time, he understood the lure of the adventure. He also understood the danger of adventure and, more importantly, the danger of trying to impress someone. A season of Danny travelling with Clara and the Dr. could have helped flesh him out. On the other hand, a season of Danny and the Dr. quarreling could have been really annoying.

jaydee74

I liked season 8 and I wanted to love season 8. I found Clara interesting. She was flawed and complicated and it was interesting to see a companion like that. My problem with it is that they focused way too much on Clara when they should have been slightly more focused on the new Doctor. I don't feel I got enough of Capaldi as the Doctor and to me that was bit of a mistake. I like him as the 12th Doctor but I don't feel connected to him in the way I did with other Doctors.

I wanted to like Danny Pink but I don't think they did enough with him in terms of character to give me a positive opinion of him. I feel that his character for the most part was a stand-up kind of guy but he didn't interest me in the same way as I did with other male companions. (I'm looking at you Rory) I think because of that though, nothing about the end of Danny Pink really resonated with me. Again, another example of merely liking something a d wanting to love it.

Missy as the Master. I liked it a lot. I think Michelle Gomez did a great job with the role but I think I need to understand why the Master who has always been male is now suddenly female and I need a reason more than "why not?" or "it was time" or "because Time-Lord technology" because that's about as lazy as saying "Well, it's magic and we don't have to explain magic." As far as I know, there are Time Lords and Time Ladies. From what I remember, when Romana regenerated, she actually tried on different versions of her new self before settling on Lalla Ward which I know was for a comedic moment but to me, I thought it gave a difference between Time Lords and Time Ladies. The 2nd Doctor was given a choice as to what his next regeneration was but that was because the Time Lords forced him to regenerate and I didn't see a female version there. The only time I saw a choice was in "Night of the Doctor" where Paul McGann was given a potion in order to choose what he regenerates into.

I wish they would have explained why The Master regenerated into a female. Did something about the John Simm Master in his last appearance give him the ability to choose to be a female? I could accept that. Is the Master now always going to regenerate into a female? These are things that I'm interested in finding out and since Michelle Gomez has confirmed she is coming back next season, maybe we'll get those answers. I like the actress and I like her performance but I want to know the whys and I haven't gotten it yet and I am hoping for more of an explanation than "because we wanted to".

Overall, the season was good. Not great. There were absolutely cool moments in various episodes and while none of the episodes are my favorite, none of them are at the bottom of my list. (I'm looking at you "Twin Dilemma") There was some very intersting themes to the show but it made for some uncomfortable viewing at times and unlike other seasons of the show, I just don't see myself revisiting this season anytime soon. I am looking forward to the Christmas Special though.

rebis

LibraryBoy said:

And speaking of, they killed my Osgood. That's just mean, man. And did you notice, she wasn't just wearing a bow tie, but also a Tennant suit and red Chucks? =((

Hell yeah, it's mean. He/She's the freaking Mastress!
Did you notice that Osgood didn't get Missy's attention until The Dr. made that Bucket List comment to her? After that, Missy went all Fatal Attraction.

jaydee74

I was very disappointed about Osgood's death. I thought they could have done more with her.

rebis

Judging from what I've read here and on other forums. Osgood's death achieved the intended goal.

Everyone knows it wasn't the real Osgood anyway. ;)

rebis

While looking for an image of a Zygon, I found this

You're welcome.

jaydee74

Nah. I think she's dead but it could mean we might get Zygon Osgood which could be almost as fun.

fredzilla

rebis said:

While looking for an image of a Zygon, I found this

You're welcome.

That really is a nice looking goblet. Not too opulent, and not too austere. :-B

kiwijase

rebis said:

While looking for an image of a Zygon, I found this

You're welcome.

It's a homage to Peri!

alienal

Wha--?! Dr. Who? Heh-heh, just kidding. I know hardly anything about Dr. Who, but I did enjoy listening to Pants and Shane enthusiastically discuss both the comic and the TV show.