Episode 1519 Talkback - Spotlight on Daredevil in the Miller Age
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Daredevil. Elektra. Bullseye. Kingpin. Punisher. The Hand. The Chaste. Crime noir. Ninja mysticism. Lost love. Deep hatred. Betrayal. Brutality. Bloodshed. MILLER. 'Nuff Said. (Covers Daredevil #158-191.) (2:33:22)
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In case anyone is interested I have scanned it and here is the first of 6 pages, with links to the others.
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Along with Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, Miller's early Daredevil is probably my personal favorite comic run of all time, and I'd argue till I go blue in the face that it's one of the 2-3 greatest comic runs of all time.
Born Again is the best story arc, but I actually prefer the earlier issues as a run, and to me the 168-191 reading experience has always been more enjoyable.
The fact that the main thrust of the run (168-181) was basically only a little over a year's worth of comics -- that still blows my mind. I think of it all as one sprawling run, but it was really only 14 issues. You basically have "season one" and "season two" (182-191). Miller only wrote the title for 24 issues back then, but it changed comics forever, and so many of the seminal comics that Marvel in particular has produced especially since the Marvel Knights era owe a great debt to Miller's early DD run. The whole street-level vibe... you can't really approach that in a Marvel comic without being influenced by Miller.
As with Moore's Swamp Thing (and Miracleman, for that matter), I just love seeing Miller grow as a storyteller with every issue. Everything wasn't quite so controlled here, and that adds to the appeal for me. It's like you're seeing the medium itself expand, and you're seeing how the context of the Marvel universe can be used to tell stories that were... not so unreal, childlike, and fantastical. The stories were believable in a way; they felt serious and adult and you didn't have to put yourself in an altered/childlike sort of mindstate to enjoy them (not that there's anything wrong with comics that demand higher suspensions of disbelief). You guys nailed it when you talked about how Miller redefined DD's powers as something anyone could do if they were able to put their mind to it. As a reader you don't have to take that as gospel, but the idea of it signifies Miller's larger concern with producing a story and a world that seemed more realistic than what had come before. As with Moore's Swamp Thing, at times it feels that the title character is simply a cypher or a necessary viewpoint through which we're seeing a more interesting world, the world that the author really wanted to tell us about all along but then he got hired to write a superhero/fantasy book. That's not to say that Miller's DD and Moore's Swamp Thing aren't fascinating characters themselves, but their fantastic abilities dosn't completely dominate the concern of the stories. When you read a classical Spider-Man or Superman comic, the eventual "point" of everything is to watch the superhero use his powers to save the day; but with Miller's DD (and Moore's Swamp Thing) the concern is always with exploring a wider world, a new type of comic world, and the protagonist is only an excuse (a VERY GOOD, VERY INTERESTING excuse at times) to show us the author's new world. I don't know that makes sense to people, but that's how I always perceived these particular comics: the protagonist was actually quite boring at times, but that didn't matter and actually served the purpose of letting me get into the world.
I bought many of these issues via mail-order in the mid-'90s, before reprints were plentiful. Miller's DD was basically my introduction to GREAT comics. Before that I was just your typical reader of whatever looked good on the stands at the time. I didn't know how good comics could actually be until I read a mention or two in Wizard magazine about Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen. After reading those TPBs I went back and started collecting other highly regarded works from the same authors. I don't think I ever had the full run of Miller's DD, but between original issues and cobbled-together reprints ("Elektra Saga"? "Elektra Megazine"?) I had most of it, and I absolutely loved it.
As far as Elektra... Yeah, her '90s series never impressed me much. Deodato can draw a great Elektra when given the chance, but I always felt that his art was a little rushed there whenever he needed to meet a monthly schedule. And the stories were never really that good, speaking from experience of the half dozen or so issues that I've picked up over the years, always hoping to find a good one.
As mentioned in other episodes and threads: Yeah, the current, soon-to-be-canceled Elektra series is quite good, probably the best ongoing series she's ever had... But I don't think it can be compared to Elektra Assassin, a work which I feel is the unsung classic of mid-'80s comics. Yes, it is revered in some circles, but I personally think it's every bit as good as Dark Knight Returns, for example. It deals with a less popular character and is much more avant garde and bizarre at times, but I'd put Elektra Assassin above pretty much anything else, including Born Again.
Lastly, Murd, I can see where you're coming from in regards to not liking Miller, but I think you'll find that the early DD issues he penned may have more humor and even whimsy in them than you might think. As far as I know, the "grim'n'gritty" label doesn't really apply to this run. Yes there are dark subjects and violence at times, and there what I would call a general realism, but it is frequently balanced with, well, straight-up FUN.
Thanks again, guys, for this wonderful episode.
I have the trades for this era of Daredevil, but I'm afraid I have never sat down to read them. I've had them for years with the intention of reading them one day. After hearing this episode and the intense emotions of characters and story, I need to make time now. I flipped through the trades last night to spark more of my enthusiasm for these issues. I'm really looking forward to jumping in.
Frank Miller is in bad health and would be unable to draw the book, so new artists are being sought. DC co-publisher Dan DiDio, and those above him, want multiple issues with multiple artists, including the likes of Greg Capullo, Jim Lee, Andy Kubert, Marc Silvestri and the like.
It would HAVE to do be better than DK2.
:)
BTW - This was a fantastic episode! So much fun to listen to.
Sequart has started an analysis/appreciation of Miller's Daredevil that people might want to check out:
http://sequart.org/magazine/53750/frank-miller-daredevil-introduction-1/