Hey, hey it's the X-Men! An X-Men discussion thread

SolitaireRose

Bendis has announced he is leaving the X-Men with the last issue before Secret Wars…and I was about to comment on a thread for the X-Men, and there isn’t one!

My own feeling on the X-Men are hot and cold. I LOVED the book under Claremont, Cockrum, Byrne and Paul Smith, and as time has gone on, I have found that the Cockrum issues that bracket Byrnes’s are about as good as Bronze Age comics could be. After Paul Smith, my interest slowly faded, until by the time Claremont left, I couldn’t possibly care less about the books. Now, my interest is very much based on the creators and I have loved Bendis’s run on the books.

The characters are clear, the stories flow well, and the art has been great. I’m sad that he will be going, because I was ready for a much longer run (although 90 issues is pretty damn good). The idea of the younger X-Men seeing the current Marvel U, the repercussions of Avengers vs X-Men, the new characters in Uncanny (even though everyone on-line says there is a “no new mutants” edit at Marvel…) and the focus on Kitty Pryde have been highlights for me. The other X-Men books, I have dropped since they don’t seem to be going anywhere.

What does everyone else think?

Chuck_Melville

I'm generally in agreement with you, though I also loved the Morrison era as well.

Mr_Cosmic

The X-Men always scared me away. Or rather their perceived complex continuity did. I only started reading the books on a regular basis when Bendis took over and I've loved what he's done. I've also bought a bunch of Marvel Masterworks covering the Claremont, Cockrum, Byrne run. Reading the Masterworks and the current stuff has given me a good education on all things X-Men and I don't feel the need to read any of the 90s stuff which originally scared me away.

Hex

I have been revisiting the Claremont/Byrne run with my kids (Marvel Essential X-Men Vol. 2)... and honestly it is every bit as awesome as I remembered it. There is no doubt why that run shaped the X-Men into the Mega-blockbuster that they became.
It took many years later, but eventually I burnt out on the X-Men. A few years ago I aXed the last couple of X related books from my pull list, and I really didn't miss them too much.

I brought them back into the fold with Wolverine and the X-Men (light hearted fun!), and the All-New X-Men and although I was enjoying that title for a while (really dug "Battle of the Atom"), it feels like it has run its course.
I also picked up Amazing X-Men (purely just because of Firestar), but I lost interest after the first story arc, and dropped it. I also have been checking out the odd issue of the adjectiveless, all female lineup X-Men, but this one doesn't feel like it has any staying power for me either.

so... I think I agree with you. It has been nice to pick up the random issue here and there, and get reacquainted with the X-Men, I would be happy if the line was again whittled down to just one or two really good titles.

Evening639

I think what the books have been missing is the level of consistency they had when the first few spinoffs began appearing. I'm more than willing to give credit where credit is due to Mr. Claremont for his fantastic run on Uncanny and his contributions to the X-Men mythos but he was only one member of a very talented team of people who's job it was to maintain the cohesive quality of the franchise.

Louise Simonson, Ann Nocenti and John Byrne were also part of that X-family. Together, this group was able to shape the franchise and as a result, Uncanny, Alpha Flight, The New Mutants, X-Factor, Excalibur and Wolverine all felt like they belonged together. The many mini-series of the time fit in naturally as well.

I don't see that cohesiveness anymore.

All-New and Uncanny are Bendis. X-Men has changed writers twice and G. Willow Wilson is only signed on for four books. That's a problem for a book that's only on issue #23, especially one with as diverse a cast as X-Men. Amazing started with Jason Aaron, then went to Kyle & Yost. Wolverine & The X-Men began with Jason Latour with it's final issue being an AXIS tie-in written by Frank Tieri. Nightcrawler's a Claremont book. Storm is Greg Pak. Cyclops started with Greg Rucka then switched after five issues to John Layman. Wolverines is written by Charles Soule. Uncanny Avengers is Rick Remender. Spider-Man And The X-Men is Elliot Kalan. And before it got cancelled All-New X-Factor was Peter David.

Currently there are six editors assigned to this mess of a franchise where only two did the job sufficiently in the 80's.

No wonder every book feels completely different from every other.

I think we would all agree that the franchise simply needs to be streamlined. Whether that will ever happen, who knows? Marvel's done it before with Spider-Man and it seemed successful. Then again, Spider-Man's only one character, so it's not difficult to limit the number of monthlies he's appearing in.

Brack

Evening639 said:

Louise Simonson, Ann Nocenti and John Byrne were also part of that X-family. Together, this group was able to shape the franchise and as a result, Uncanny, Alpha Flight, The New Mutants, X-Factor, Excalibur and Wolverine all felt like they belonged together. The many mini-series of the time fit in naturally as well.

This was not the case in the 80s. I'm not sure it was ever the case for Alpha Flight.

Excalibur was at its best when it was miles away in tone (and storylines) from the main X-Books. Whenever they tried to make more like the X-Men it faltered creatively. At its best it had more in common with what Giffen/DeMatteis were doing with the Justice League than what was happening in Uncanny X-Men.

The same could be said for New Mutants and X-Factor. New Mutants bloomed when it was stylistically far away from X-Men, be that due to Sienkiewicz, Blevins or Liefeld. X-Factor was at it's best when they were pretending to be mutant hunters or Peter David's government mutants era, not when they were just another team of mutant heroes.

Evening639 said:

No wonder every book feels completely different from every other.

That is a positive. If you want a comics line where every comic feels the same, read DC. Where Bob Harras has performed the same line homogenisation that turned me off X-Men comics in the 90s.

Evening639

Brack said:

This was not the case in the 80s. I'm not sure it was ever the case for Alpha Flight.

I'll give you Alpha Flight but the rest of the books still worked well as companions to one another. In fact, Claremont's treatment of Uncanny and The New Mutants as sister titles was never MORE evident than during Sienkiewicz's run on New Mutants. There were quite a few subplots that were weaving back and forth between both. And during Blevins run, Simonson wrote in characters she introduced in X-Factor.

I didn't mean to say that I want the tone of the books to be exactly the same. I enjoy how different The New Mutants and Excalibur were from the other X-titles which is why they're two of my favorite books from that period.

I simply think it's overkill that there are so many titles right now and I think in some ways it's harmful to the continuity to have so many different writers and editors stamp their own unique vision on the titles when they will simply move on to other things while the X-titles they were working on stagnate and don't seem to build to anything during their tenures.

rebis

Corwin

Evening639 said:

All-New and Uncanny are Bendis. X-Men has changed writers twice and G. Willow Wilson is only signed on for four books. That's a problem for a book that's only on issue #23, especially one with as diverse a cast as X-Men. Amazing started with Jason Aaron, then went to Kyle & Yost. Wolverine & The X-Men began with Jason Latour with it's final issue being an AXIS tie-in written by Frank Tieri. Nightcrawler's a Claremont book. Storm is Greg Pak. Cyclops started with Greg Rucka then switched after five issues to John Layman. Wolverines is written by Charles Soule. Uncanny Avengers is Rick Remender. Spider-Man And The X-Men is Elliot Kalan. And before it got cancelled All-New X-Factor was Peter David....

(After re-reading my post I realized I went on a rant for a little while... sorry. What can I say, I'm passionate about my X-Men.)

The second volume of Wolverine and the X-Men started out average and slipped into terrible territory so quickly. What's more insulting is when we the artist on a book gets worse and worse as the series continues on. They hook you with a great artist then slowly keep dropping the quality of the artist on the book. WatX was getting top notch artists under Aaron and we even got Mahmud A. Asrar in Latour's run




but then it switches to Jorge Fornes?



http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/preview/0/0/1/WOLVXMEN2014012-int-LR2-3-57969.jpg

This certainly doesn't help a title especially when the writing isn't strong enough to hold the book up. Then a must read book like WatX under Aaron moves to the bottom of the pile under Latour.

Pencilers
Look at Amazing X-Men, we went from Ed McGuinness to Carlo Barberi to Jorge Fornes.

X-Men, Olivier Coipel! (whom I love!), Terry Dodson, Kris Anka, Clay Mann & Philippe Briones, Harvey Tolibao & Dexter Soy.

To me it does seem like the Avengers books get priority over the X-Books with artists. Bendis' books have been pretty stable but it really hurt me when Stuart Immonen left for Captain America. (Thank god Bachelo loves the X-Men so much he didn't want to leave when offered other books.)

I was so happy and surprised when Bendis came to the X-Books because it always seemed like they grew the writing talent in the X-Books then "graduated" them to the Avengers. (Of course there is a strong possibility it could just be the writer's choice.)

Uncanny X-Men writer history:
Brubaker...dipped his toe in the X-Universe and decided to keep writing Cap
Fraction - Uncanny X (well upon researching he did start Iron Man two months before Uncanny) > Iron Man, Mighty Thor, Hawkeye
Gillen - Uncanny X > Thor, JiM, Young Avengers
Bendis


X-Men/X-Men Legacy
Mike Carey (X-Men/X-Men Legacy) had a long run...wouldn't mind getting him back.
Victor Gischler (X-Men)
Brian Wood (X-Men)
G Willow Wilson (X-Men) > A-Force (Avengers Force)
Simon Spurrier (X-Men Legacy)


X-Force
Kyle and Yost- X-Force > both of whom I'm surprised haven't written an Avengers book (loved them)
Rick Remender- Uncanny X-Force > Uncanny Avengers (vol 1 heavily x-related...vol 2 seems to be more Avengers-ish)
Sam Humphries- Uncanny X-Force > Avengers AI, Legendary Star-Lord
Dennis Hopeless- Cable and X-Force/Avengers Arena (same time)> Avengers Undercover, Spider-Woman
Simon Spurrier- X-Force


Amazing X-Men
Aaron - Wolverine (very long run) > Hulk, Thor God of Thunder and a bunch of other stuff
Kyle and Yost - whom I love but they're hamstringing them with the artists


Wolverine and the X-Men
Aaron - Wolverine (very long run), WatX > Hulk, Thor God of Thunder and bunch of of other stuff
Latour
Elliot Kalan (Spider-Man and the X-Men)

All New X-Men
Bendis


Besides Bendis we haven't seen a big move up in writers. I'm really curious to see who we'll get next to lead the X-Titles. Will it be a big name or another up and comer who'll get scalped for the Avengers or another title?

I will say I'm surprised with Wolverines. Charles Soule is bringing it but a weekly book at $3.99 with a constantly rotating crew of artists with varying quality hurts the book...hell give him a shot at leading the franchise. Maybe that's why he's exclusive to Marvel but I can see him taking Daredevil more than an X-book.

Again sorry for the long rant...

Evening639 said:

...I think we would all agree that the franchise simply needs to be streamlined. Whether that will ever happen, who knows? Marvel's done it before with Spider-Man and it seemed successful. Then again, Spider-Man's only one character, so it's not difficult to limit the number of monthlies he's appearing in.

Yes, the line does need to be streamlined because the quality of the books vary greatly and the same characters are sometimes on multiple teams. It's been worse but what we have right now isn't so bad.

Team books
All New X-Men
Uncanny X-Men
Amazing X-Men
X-Men
Spider-Man and the X-Men
X-Force
All New X-Factor- cancelled

Pare it down to 5 books. Two to lead the franchise (All New X-Men, Uncanny X-Men), one about the kids (Spider-Man & or go back to New X-Men: Academy X), one easily accessible or continuity free where the writer could just tell fun stories; also where we can see members that are on other teams (Amazing X-Men or X-Men) and one fringe title (X-Force or X-Factor). Or make it two fringe titles and make one of the lead franchise books about the kids.

Oh and we've also got solo titles...
Cyclops
Magneto -such a great book
Nightcrawler
Storm -another great book
Wolverines

Not sure what to do about those. Maybe two titles of rotating minis that expand on characters. 7 books compared to the 10-12 that we usually get. I'm expecting that after Secret Wars we'll get a more streamlined well defined line like they did when Joe Q took over Marvel years ago.

David_D

@Corwin I wish I could hit the "Insightful" button more than once.

Mr_Cosmic

David_D said:

@Corwin I wish I could hit the "Insightful" button more than once.

What's stopping you? Knock yourself out!