Episode 1539 Talkback - OTR: Groo: Friends & Foes #1, Unbeatable Squirrel-Girl #1, Star Wars #1

i_am_scifi

In this month's Off the Racks, we finally come forward with our specific, SPOILER-spangled responses to the first issue of Marvel's new Star Wars comic! Also, the barbarian basics of Dark Horse's Groo: Friends and Foes #1, and the nuts'n'bolts of Marvel's The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #1. It's 100% Bryan Deemer approved!

Listen to the show!

i_am_scifi

I'll also say you guys missed an opportunity to title this episode CGS 2001: An Off The Racks Odyssey, since it was your 2001st episode if you count all the shows together. ;)

alienal

That darn Deemer! What's he doing now? He's even quiet on Facebook.
My picks:
Groo: Friends and Foes #1 - BORROW! Yeah, good art, but pretty predictable.
The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #1 - BUY-ROW! I thought it was refreshing and fun, but the artwork was hard for me to get used to. I didn't order the 2nd issue, but I wish that I did. Oh, and the little notes at the bottom? While amusing, it hurt my eyes to read them...but then, I'm old.
Star Wars #1 - Another BUY-ROW! It was great, but too SHORT! Love the Cassady artwork, though Luke's facial expression on one splash page was a little wonky, I think. I agree with Shane that the first Brian Wood issue was much better, but I haven't read #2 either and I don't have it yet (Chris

smoore78

My Picks:

Groo: Friends and Foes #1 - I can't give a recommendation on this one. I usually try to play along with the podcast, but this one did not interest me at all.

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #1 - Buy! I enjoyed the art and the comical story. I also have not read the extra text along the bottom of the pages. I'll have to locate a magnifying glass! I originally would have said a Buy-row, but I had no idea she was considered a mutant. Thanks for the tidbit. I love all things mutants.

Star Wars #1 - Buy! It was fantastic! The art blew me away! The scene where Leia tells Chewie to take the shot was incredible. It shows the sense of urgency that even though the rebels destroyed the Death Star, Vader is still a threat. In the past years, I avoided everything outside the 6 movies. I've never read the novels or comics, but now since Marvel is starting the lore of Star Wars anew, I'm eagerly jumping in. This comic was a fantastic start. I've recently read the 1st Disney produced novel: A New Dawn and have watched about half of the new Rebels series. I'm enjoying this new 'cannon' alot! I hope the team of Aaron and Cassaday can keep up the great work. I've ordered the comics in this series along with Darth Vader, Princess Leia, and Kanan the last padawan.

Chuck_Melville

A friend lent me his copies of the first two issues of Squirrel-Girl... and that is exactly how I rank them: a borrow. I also found the art style difficult to like, and I'm not sure I like the overall redesign of the character. And I haven't read those little notes at the bottom of the pages yet -- I forgot they were even there, they're so tiny and light.

nweathington

Yes, Sergio did the cartoons for TV's Bloopers and Practical Jokes—best part of the show.

I liked Squirrel Girl. It wasn't quite as good as I was hoping, but good enough to keep me buying—plus my daughter liked it a lot. I loved the artwork, and I've read enough of Ryan North’s work (Adventure Time, etc.) to believe it will get better as it goes along.

JDick

Star Wars: Borrow I think. I didn't really care for the art. The faces looked like silly putty sometimes.
Does it not majorly change the characters and story to have Luke already facing off against Darth Vader? In my mind they fought 2 times...once in Empire and once in Jedi. I didn't like that part of the book.

hauberk

nweathington said:

Yes, Sergio did the cartoons for TV's Bloopers and Practical Jokes—best part of the show.

I remember him being associated with Laugh-In as well. Not sure if it was as a cartoonist or as a performer.

As far as the episode goes, there wasn't much there for me.

I've got no interest in Groo. Just not my cuppa. Squirrel Girl was a pre-pants for me and Star Wars, while something exciting to see happen is a gateway that I just can't afford to go through.

Chuck_Melville

hauberk said:

nweathington said:

Yes, Sergio did the cartoons for TV's Bloopers and Practical Jokes—best part of the show.

I remember him being associated with Laugh-In as well. Not sure if it was as a cartoonist or as a performer.

I think that might have been the second Laugh-In, in the 70's, rather than the classic original 60's version -- and I think he just did animated cartoons for that one? Not sure.

hauberk

Chuck_Melville said:

hauberk said:

nweathington said:

Yes, Sergio did the cartoons for TV's Bloopers and Practical Jokes—best part of the show.

I remember him being associated with Laugh-In as well. Not sure if it was as a cartoonist or as a performer.

I think that might have been the second Laugh-In, in the 70's, rather than the classic original 60's version -- and I think he just did animated cartoons for that one? Not sure.

Me either. My understanding is that he did some performance work with/for Jodorowsky - mime, maybe.

nweathington

It was the second Laugh-In, but he did both! He did cartoons, but he also was on-camera occasionally. He acted in a couple of movies no one’s heard of too.

CarlI

A little late catching up on things. I went to the store yesterday to get Star Wars 1 and Darth Vader 1. Pfft. The guy had them but was charging $35 for them each! I looked at my watch to make sure it wasn't 1993 all over again.

bralinator

CarlI said:

A little late catching up on things. I went to the store yesterday to get Star Wars 1 and Darth Vader 1. Pfft. The guy had them but was charging $35 for them each! I looked at my watch to make sure it wasn't 1993 all over again.

Sounds like a comic shop that considers it's customers to be fools @CarlI

Get 1 & 2 here for $15 total

And Darth Vader for less than cover price here

LibraryBoy

I liked Squirrel Girl #1. But I wanted to love it. I'm not disappointed, per se, but it wasn't the experience I was hoping it would be. Issue #2 came out in a week with a lot of other books I buy and it wasn't a priority to make room in the budget for it. I might check back in when the TPB comes out.

nweathington

LibraryBoy said:

I liked Squirrel Girl #1. But I wanted to love it. I'm not disappointed, per se, but it wasn't the experience I was hoping it would be. Issue #2 came out in a week with a lot of other books I buy and it wasn't a priority to make room in the budget for it. I might check back in when the TPB comes out.

For what it's worth, I liked the second issue a bit better than the first.

compsolut

CarlI said:

A little late catching up on things. I went to the store yesterday to get Star Wars 1 and Darth Vader 1. Pfft. The guy had them but was charging $35 for them each! I looked at my watch to make sure it wasn't 1993 all over again.

I believe I have both in stock at cover price, and can send them to you if you also pay shipping. Just PM me and we will take care of it straight away!

Royal_Lantern

Finally got to listen to the episode yesterday (I was holding off until I read all three issues....but I couldn't wait any longer....still need to read Groo).

Thank you so much for playing my voicemail, and there is nothing quite like being introduced by Mr. Adam. You humble me with how eloquently you introduced my voicemail and who I was. Thank you, sir.

So, we all know that Star Wars #1 was a buy for me, and I agree with Chris that #2 just furthered my enjoyment of the development of these characters. Brian Woods' Star wars was amazing as well. The difference I believe is that Brian Wood went into a more subtle strategy approach for the rebels so things were on a more intimate level. The Marvel Star Wars was more from a large epic and cinematic perspective. Both are great approached and I love them both. Darth Vader #1 was also an amazing issue for me, and I loved how it played into what was happening in the main title.

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #1 was a Pants-orrow for me. When I first heard the title was coming out I was hoping for something like her appearance is the one-and-done story in Secret Avengers during the Fear Itself event. That issue was amazing and really solidified her for me as a legit and valid superhero instead of just a silly, fun character. She was the nanny for Luke Cage and Jessica Jones (and this was a driving force in that Secret Avengers issue I mentioned). Much like Adam, I didn't care for how the main character of Squirrel Girl was drawn, but I liked the art for everything else. I did laugh at the almost invisible lines at the bottom of each page, but that is pretty much where my personal enjoyment ended. It was just an okay issue outside of that and didn't make me feel compelled to read anymore. However, if I had a daughter or son of an age like 6-8, I would totally buy this comic for them to see if they would enjoy it. It's definitely a good all-ages comic...which we always need more of. For me though, I'll be leaving this title behind.

Chuck_Melville

Royal_Lantern said:

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #1 was a Pants-orrow for me. When I first heard the title was coming out I was hoping for something like her appearance is the one-and-done story in Secret Avengers during the Fear Itself event. That issue was amazing and really solidified her for me as a legit and valid superhero instead of just a silly, fun character. She was the nanny for Luke Cage and Jessica Jones (and this was a driving force in that Secret Avengers issue I mentioned). Much like Adam, I didn't care for how the main character of Squirrel Girl was drawn, but I liked the art for everything else. I did laugh at the almost invisible lines at the bottom of each page, but that is pretty much where my personal enjoyment ended. It was just an okay issue outside of that and didn't make me feel compelled to read anymore. However, if I had a daughter or son of an age like 6-8, I would totally buy this comic for them to see if they would enjoy it. It's definitely a good all-ages comic...which we always need more of. For me though, I'll be leaving this title behind.

Y'know, I totally agree with that assessment. I liked the art in general, but not for how she drew Squirrel Girl herself -- and although I wouldn't be getting this book at all, I'd have no problem recommending it for younger readers. It's a totally viable book for that age range.

nweathington

Question for those of you who don't like the new Squirrel Girl design: What about it don't you like? Frankly, it's not that much different than the way she was first drawn by Steve Ditko, just with a few extra pounds on her frame. Is it because she’s no longer skinny? Is it because they went back to the buck teeth? Is it because she doesn't have that weird thing going on around her eyes? Some combination of the three? Is it because you don't like cartooning (however good it might be) in your superhero comics?

I'm not judging, just curious. Because from a purely aesthetic perspective, I think it's a great design that fits her personality to a T.

Royal_Lantern

I think for me it's the whole swirly lip thing. It's something about the face and I think that lip curl plays into it. I get why it's done with the whole buck teeth thing, but it just throws me off. In the images above, she still looks cool in the face.

You have to understand also, that this is the Squirrel Girl I was introduced to (with not knowing much about the character before this other than by name):





So, while I don't mind the art, it does throw me off from the character I knew. And again, I think it completely comes down to the face. It just seems very off to me...even from the other characters in the issue.

nweathington

Okay, it's a specific part of her style you don't like then. And it is part of her style, not just specific to the way she draws Squirrel Girl.

Part of the cover to the first issue—check out Captain Marvel and Black Widow. Same mouths with slightly thinner lips.



And some of her other work:





Even her self-portrait:



But if it's something that bugs you, it is what it is. I was just curious.

Anyone else?

Chuck_Melville

I'd forgotten how bizarre the Ditko version had been...

Yeah, that swirly-mouth thing really puts me off overall -- even more, now that you've shown how much a part of her style it is! Gives all of the characters a kind of, I dunno... a really goofy expression. I did like her Avengers appearance, shown above.

Royal_Lantern

Yeah, I guess it is her style then. And like you said, everyone likes what they like. I actually did like the fact that her body was drawn differently. It gave a more real person dimensions to her, so I could appreciate that....and it played into her squirrel abilities.

It's all about personal preference when it comes to art styles. I know many people love Mike Alred art, but it just never appealed to me. Some people love Howard Chaykin, and while I do love his early stuff (back when he did Star Wars), I do not enjoy his current day stuff (everyone looks like they were stung by bees and swelled up).

But then there are artists that I absolutely love that some people don't care for. I love the artwork of Antonio Fuso on the Cobra comics by IDW. I love Scottie Young's art. I know those don't appeal to everyone.

To each their own.

nweathington

I don't know about anyone else, but I get a strong Jeff Smith vibe from her work, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Royal_Lantern

nweathington said:

I don't know about anyone else, but I get a strong Jeff Smith vibe from her work, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Maybe in things other than the faces, I can see that. I love Jeff Smith's art.

bralinator

nweathington said:

The only face in that image that I don't find off-putting is Iron Man and maybe Black Widow. But just look at the Hulk - who is that? If the renderings are this wildly off the established appearance, I get taken out of the story. Many of these characters seem to share the buck-toothiness of the main character too. This just looks rushed.

nweathington

Royal_Lantern said:

Maybe in things other than the faces, I can see that. I love Jeff Smith's art.

Mostly I see it in her poses, expressions, and inking approach (though she doesn't get quite as bold with her line as Jeff).

bralinator said:

The only face in that image that I don't find off-putting is Iron Man and maybe Black Widow. But just look at the Hulk - who is that? If the renderings are this wildly off the established appearance, I get taken out of the story. Many of these characters seem to share the buck-toothiness of the main character too. This just looks rushed.

He's big and green, what more do you need? I'm mostly joking here, but Hulk has changed size and shape more often than Janet van Dyne has changed outfits. And he has smiled on occasion.

But to each his own on that count. I will, however, take exception to your statement that the art looks rushed. Her figure work is as precise and consistent as anyone's. It's obvious to me that she put time into her compositions and drawing. You don't like the results, fine, but this work is not rushed in any way shape or form.

bralinator

Royal_Lantern said:

It's all about personal preference when it comes to art styles. I know many people love Mike Alred art, but it just never appealed to me...
To each their own.

Royal_Lantern

By the way, relating some talk back to Star Wars. I wanted to update that I was in fact able to get every variant cover that came out for the issue. Since there were so many different ones from so many sources, I had to stay on my toes knowing all of them that were out there. LOL

I would never do this for any other title, but this is Star Wars....and nothing is higher than that for me.

The only "variants" I didn't get were the "signed variants", which were essentially a certain cover with the artist's signature, or the Dynamic Forces "sketch cover variants", which were just the blank sketch cover that an artist they had draw a character on and they mass produced it. I don't consider these actual variants.

I did get every cover that was different and the sketch version of those covers (if one was available). I'm just waiting on a 3rd printing variant cover to come in the mail.

I would have to add them up, but I think when all was said and done, there were 71 or 72 variants that I own (or will own). It was fun to get them all. I know I'm a sucker for doing it, but I enjoyed it....and again, this is Star Wars, man!

bralinator

I am not sure which is more incredible @Royal_Lantern
The fact that you got every proper variant of Star Wars #1, or that there were actually stores or people who failed to get one of the million that were sold last month!

Royal_Lantern

bralinator said:

I am not sure which is more incredible @Royal_Lantern
The fact that you got every proper variant of Star Wars #1, or that there were actually stores or people who failed to get one of the million that were sold last month!

Ha. I know, right? I actually saw that they are having a 4th printing coming out, which has a different color cover and has the twin suns of Tatooine on it. I can't believe after all of the issues that came out and after a second printing that they actually needed 2 more printing runs.