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Episode 1564 Talkback - Comic Talk

Loosey-goosey, baby! The Geeks mull over a few 'All-New All-Different' Marvel news items and announcements; reveal which characters and/or creators make a comic an 'instant buy' for them; team up to answer the challenge of an especially demanding Muddle the Murd; and do the cha-cha like little, sissy girls. We like-a do the cha-cha. (1:42:49)

Listen here.

Comments

  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,736
    @Peter, if you don't already have it, you need to put Rima at the top of your ’70s want list. Fantastic Joe Kubert covers, gorgeous Nestor Redondo pencils inside, and a sci-fi short story backup by Alex Niño or Alex Toth in every issue. You can thank me later.

    As for my own back issue list, it's pretty simple, and anyone following the Comic Cover a Day thread knows it already. I mostly get stuff that will never be reprinted. Primarily I focus on The Adventures of Jerry Lewis, The Adventures of Bob Hope, and The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis—all three of which I get for the artwork of Bob Oksner and Owen Fitzgerald.

    With the current books, there are only two creators I buy sight unseen: Darwyn Cooke and Paul Pope. And there are no characters I buy regardless of the creative team. That said, I have a pretty large monthly list of books I follow, and it seems like almost every month there's a new book I'm trying out, because my tastes are wide and varied.
  • ElsiebubElsiebub Posts: 338
    Third of the way through this awesome episode...

    I'm sure there will be an Amazing Spider-Man title with Peter in the blue and red. (Pause for a moment to reflect on how Amazing Spider-Man had one #1 issue for 37 years... then another one in 1999... then one in 2014... and now almost certainly a new ASM #1 scarcely a year later. Not complaining. Just saying.)

    Count me as one fan who's thoroughly annoyed at how Marvel staggers these announcements for maximum confusion/controversy. They put out the "Miles as SPIDER-MAN #1!" announcement in order to suggest that Peter has been replaced. This divides the readership, creates controversy and also well-intentioned expectations on the part of some Miles fans who start to think "Hey, my guy is THE Spider-Man now!" ... And then a month or so later Marvel will (probably) announce another new ASM #1 with Peter starring and with Slott writing.

    Basically, I don't like when Marvel does this, because I think that the fandom controversies it starts are nonproductive. (Not saying anything on CGS or the boards as been negative. I'm talking about other places online, where it's basically a race war and/or a flurry of "racist!" accusations whenever someone expresses preference for Peter Parker.) Even though the comics themselves have been very good -- and that's another whole discussion, just how GOOD Marvel Comics have been lately -- I find myself wearied by the way Marvel PR and to a lesser extent editorial sets things up, in the most misleading, faux-controversial, and divisive ways possible.

    I think back to about five years ago when they relaunched "X-Men" with a bunch of ads featuring non-mutant characters like Spidey and She-Hulk standing in front of the X-Men logo. For about a month there were totally pointless controversies about "Well why SHOULDN'T these characters be X-Men???" and "Don't you ignorant morons know that non-mutants have been X-Men before??? What about Longshot!!!" And in the end all that happened was that these other characters guest-starred in the title for a couple issues max and never joined the team. A whole bunch of misleading advertisements and unnecessary arguments that served no purpose and didn't address the actual comics. And Marvel purposely did it to create "buzz".

    To piggyback on this subject in a more positive way, for what it's worth I find myself totally indifferent as to whether or not some of the original heroes ever reclaim their mantles. I'm totally expecting a Peter Parker Spider-Man title, but it wouldn't bother me at all if there isn't one. For a long time now people have been saying things like "Yeah but you know by the time Cap 3 hits theaters, Steve will be back in the suit" or "Yeah but you know the original Thor is going to be THOR again in a year, tops". I don't know if those statements are true. We didn't have anything resembling the cinematic Avengers team in a comic book when Age of Ultron hit theaters. Marvel may not care so much. And if sales are good, who's to say that female Thor or "FalCap" are going anywhere? Fairly or unfairly, I think there would be a massively negative online fan reaction amongst the Tumblr crowd. I think Marvel cares about that. Then again, when sales are low and the properties matter, it's evident that they will make changes. The recent yanking of Kelly Sue DeConnick off of Captain Marvel, finally, is a case in point.

    I think that what does seem "All-New and All-Different" about a lot of these newer and newish properties and titles that Marvel's been doing is that, from Nick Spencer on Ant Man to G. Willow Wilson on Ms. Marvel to Spider-Gwen to Sam Wilson as Cap, these "underdog"/replacement titles actually seem to have legs, get good reviews from readers, and actually "work" to develop the Marvel universe in new and worthwhile ways.
  • DmanDman Posts: 163
    I have a question. I've read Secret Wars #1, liked it, and do plan on reading the rest of the series; just the main book and no spin-offs. Has it been announced or made clear what kind of Marvel universe we're getting after Secret Wars? Will this currently patchwork universe of alternate Marvel universes remain on Battleworld after Secret Wars or is there a DC like reboot expected?
  • BrackBrack Posts: 868
    Dman said:

    I have a question. I've read Secret Wars #1, liked it, and do plan on reading the rest of the series; just the main book and no spin-offs. Has it been announced or made clear what kind of Marvel universe we're getting after Secret Wars? Will this currently patchwork universe of alternate Marvel universes remain on Battleworld after Secret Wars or is there a DC like reboot expected?

    There has been no general announcement, but specific announcements indicate it will be the general Marvel Universe as you know it (i.e. Iron Man is the Tony Stark we all know and love, the Avengers features a gaggle of pre-Secret Wars heroes as you already know them, a whole bunch of comics are continuing during Secret Wars without acknowledging it), with bits and pieces of other continuities merged in (Miles in Avengers, Old Man Logan), some natural switches in roles that would have worked pre-Secret Wars anyway (X-23 as Wolverine, probably Cho as Hulk), and some Battleworld concepts carrying on in the "new" universe (A-Force, Weirdworld).

    So they are teasing things so as still maintain some suspense in Secret Wars' outcome, but trying to give you enough information that you are still going to want to order the new titles before it ends. Which is always the delicate game you have to play with these sort of events.
  • DmanDman Posts: 163
    Thank you Brack!
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    The only creator that I buy no matter what is Hickman. Others come close but he could copy the phone book onto a napkin and I'd buy it.

    The Fantastic Four is the one book I buy no matter who the creative team is. FF was my first comic and I love those characters.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    I love listening to Rev Eberle's sermons. Amen brother, Amen.

    I see BKV's name on a book and I'm in.

    Characters, you give me a Swamp Thing book I'll buy it. Much like Shane I'll read the main Justice League book as long as it's around.
  • alienalalienal Posts: 508
    Interesting discussion, much more food for thought than I really want to get into here. When Chris was replying to Peter's topic, I was thinking: "Ohmigod, his tastes are somewhat similar to mine, but Garth Ennis?" Haha...no, actually I was thinking no wonder it's hard for me to keep my comic expenditures down. Many of the creators Chris mentioned are still working so I'm buying most of what they do with a few exceptions. When Peter mentioned Hickman and some of his Image stuff, I remembered there was some that I went all in on and regretted (like Red Wing), so now I'm hesitant to go "all in" on any creator, even those whose work I really admire.
  • compsolutcompsolut Posts: 150
    alienal said:

    I remembered there was some that I went all in on and regretted (like Red Wing), so now I'm hesitant to go "all in" on any creator, even those whose work I really admire.

    I love how each person has a different approach to the same material. I absolutely loved The Red Wing. I don't know exactly why, but I know I loved the premise, and the art. I do remember wishing it went on longer . . . now I have to go read it again!
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    Elsiebub said:

    Third of the way through this awesome episode...

    I'm sure there will be an Amazing Spider-Man title with Peter in the blue and red. (Pause for a moment to reflect on how Amazing Spider-Man had one #1 issue for 37 years... then another one in 1999... then one in 2014... and now almost certainly a new ASM #1 scarcely a year later. Not complaining. Just saying.)

    Count me as one fan who's thoroughly annoyed at how Marvel staggers these announcements for maximum confusion/controversy. They put out the "Miles as SPIDER-MAN #1!" announcement in order to suggest that Peter has been replaced. This divides the readership, creates controversy and also well-intentioned expectations on the part of some Miles fans who start to think "Hey, my guy is THE Spider-Man now!" ... And then a month or so later Marvel will (probably) announce another new ASM #1 with Peter starring and with Slott writing.

    Basically, I don't like when Marvel does this, because I think that the fandom controversies it starts are nonproductive. (Not saying anything on CGS or the boards as been negative. I'm talking about other places online, where it's basically a race war and/or a flurry of "racist!" accusations whenever someone expresses preference for Peter Parker.) Even though the comics themselves have been very good -- and that's another whole discussion, just how GOOD Marvel Comics have been lately -- I find myself wearied by the way Marvel PR and to a lesser extent editorial sets things up, in the most misleading, faux-controversial, and divisive ways possible.

    I think back to about five years ago when they relaunched "X-Men" with a bunch of ads featuring non-mutant characters like Spidey and She-Hulk standing in front of the X-Men logo. For about a month there were totally pointless controversies about "Well why SHOULDN'T these characters be X-Men???" and "Don't you ignorant morons know that non-mutants have been X-Men before??? What about Longshot!!!" And in the end all that happened was that these other characters guest-starred in the title for a couple issues max and never joined the team. A whole bunch of misleading advertisements and unnecessary arguments that served no purpose and didn't address the actual comics. And Marvel purposely did it to create "buzz".

    To piggyback on this subject in a more positive way, for what it's worth I find myself totally indifferent as to whether or not some of the original heroes ever reclaim their mantles. I'm totally expecting a Peter Parker Spider-Man title, but it wouldn't bother me at all if there isn't one. For a long time now people have been saying things like "Yeah but you know by the time Cap 3 hits theaters, Steve will be back in the suit" or "Yeah but you know the original Thor is going to be THOR again in a year, tops". I don't know if those statements are true. We didn't have anything resembling the cinematic Avengers team in a comic book when Age of Ultron hit theaters. Marvel may not care so much. And if sales are good, who's to say that female Thor or "FalCap" are going anywhere? Fairly or unfairly, I think there would be a massively negative online fan reaction amongst the Tumblr crowd. I think Marvel cares about that. Then again, when sales are low and the properties matter, it's evident that they will make changes. The recent yanking of Kelly Sue DeConnick off of Captain Marvel, finally, is a case in point.

    I think that what does seem "All-New and All-Different" about a lot of these newer and newish properties and titles that Marvel's been doing is that, from Nick Spencer on Ant Man to G. Willow Wilson on Ms. Marvel to Spider-Gwen to Sam Wilson as Cap, these "underdog"/replacement titles actually seem to have legs, get good reviews from readers, and actually "work" to develop the Marvel universe in new and worthwhile ways.

    I think there is a lot of truth to this, and it is well-observed.

    It does feel to me that, in the age of Bleeding Cool, and people on Twitter and blogs reposting and running with the speculation of the BCs of the world, that the marketing people for Marvel publishing (and perhaps editorial as well) have found the strategy you describe of, in some cases, seeding controversy and speculation. And when people make the wrong guess, instead of correcting anyone, they just let that anticipation (and, in some cases, controversy) build up over time. Those X-Men promos you mentioned are a great example of that misdirection. Another that comes to my mind is when this image was teased:

    image

    And I think at the time people assumed this would be a new kind of Captain America, or that Iron Man was becoming Cap, etc., and of course, the most noise created were by those who guessed wrong and hated the thing they figured this was. And later we found out that this was actually the Norman Osborn Iron Patriot.

    And I think the other thing that Marvel does these days, and we saw this with the ending of the current volume of FF, is that if something gets controversal buzz ('They're cancelling FF because they hate Fox!!! There will be no more FF in the MU!!!') instead of getting out ahead of that, or countering that narrative, they let it play out. Because, hell, it is the most talk the FF had been getting since they 'killed' Johnny. And it boosted sales. The kickoff to the last FF story had a big bump over the prior month, and even the higher priced (I think it was $5 or even $6) final issue popped a big (well, big for FF) number as well. Had Marvel editorial countered the story that FF was being picked on because of studio politics, perhaps by hinting that there are about to be a LOT of other cancellations announced, maybe the final FF arc would have gotten lost in the shuffle. But by going with that first, and letting the controversy run its course, they sold more comics.

    I think they are doing the same with the X-books now. Sure, newly appointed X-editor Mark Paniccia has hinted that it would be weird timing for him to be given the X-office if it was all about to go away. And Alonso has said some reassuring things about the future of the X-Men post-SW. But I am guessing the reason they have been left off of some of the teasers, and why they might be the last titles to be announced and launched, is exactly because they are playing the kinds of marketing games you are talking about.

    I don't know that I blame them, as the job of marketers and digital strategy people is to try to keep the conversation going. And it seems that speculation-- including vocal negativity by those guessing the wrong thing and hating on the leaps they have made-- is good for sales. At least, short-to-medium term. So I don't agree that it serves no purpose. But I do agree that it may be, long-term, not the best, or fair-play, way to have a relationship with your readers and most passionate (or vocal) fans. You can only misdirect so many times before you are seen to be crying wolf about everything (to mix a metaphor).
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    I download my podcasts through OneCast and haven't seen a new episode in the feed since the Previews episode, #1562. Have there been changes to the feed or just problems with OneCast and/or my phone?
  • PantsPants Posts: 567

    I download my podcasts through OneCast and haven't seen a new episode in the feed since the Previews episode, #1562. Have there been changes to the feed or just problems with OneCast and/or my phone?

    I can't speak for OneCast, but there haven't been any changes to the feed that I'm aware of.
  • Evening639Evening639 Posts: 368
    Great topic. I always love to hear what creators, characters and companies other people are into.

    My own lists of "must reads" would be:

    Writers
    Kurt Busiek
    Chris Claremont
    Peter David
    J.M. DeMatteis
    Grant Morrison
    Paul Jenkins
    Greg Rucka
    J. Michael Straczynski
    Mark Waid
    Judd Winick

    Characters
    X-Men and X-Men related characters

    Companies
    Dark Horse
    BOOM! Studios
    Slave Labor Graphics
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    Pants said:

    I download my podcasts through OneCast and haven't seen a new episode in the feed since the Previews episode, #1562. Have there been changes to the feed or just problems with OneCast and/or my phone?

    I can't speak for OneCast, but there haven't been any changes to the feed that I'm aware of.
    Thanks, @Pants. OneCast has been annoying me a lot lately... and I think I've had all I can stands (and I can't stands no more).
  • TheOriginalGManTheOriginalGMan Posts: 1,763
    Just when @Pants thought he was "out" from reading DC ...

    image
  • LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803

    @Peter, if you don't already have it, you need to put Rima at the top of your ’70s want list. Fantastic Joe Kubert covers, gorgeous Nestor Redondo pencils inside, and a sci-fi short story backup by Alex Niño or Alex Toth in every issue. You can thank me later.

    As for my own back issue list, it's pretty simple, and anyone following the Comic Cover a Day thread knows it already. I mostly get stuff that will never be reprinted. Primarily I focus on The Adventures of Jerry Lewis, The Adventures of Bob Hope, and The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis—all three of which I get for the artwork of Bob Oksner and Owen Fitzgerald.

    I don't know if you sold Peter on Rima, but you certainly sold me on it. Adding that to the list of things to check out.

    And yeah, anything Oksner is gold in my book, too. Fantastic comedy cartooning chops, and he drew what are arguably the cutest women in comics history. :x
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,736

    Fantastic comedy cartooning chops, and he drew what are arguably the cutest women in comics history. :x

    I suppose you could argue it, but I wouldn’t.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    Julienae said:

    Great ep, as always. I was intrigued by the sort of "Must Read/Buy" lists in this episode... so much so that I fired up my own synapses and tried to come up with my own top creators/top characters list. I found myself waffling on the characters list, but realized Moon Knight was a recurring character in my pull. Anyway, here's my contemporary list fwiw: (Also, this is my first post of the forums, so be gentle...)

    Creators/Artists:
    Paul Pope
    Matt Fraction
    Ed Brubaker
    Steve Epting
    Scott Snyder
    Jason Aaron
    Jeff Lemire
    Greg Capullo
    Fiona Staples
    Brian K. Vaughan
    Jim Mahfood
    Ben Templesmith

    Welcome aboard @Julienae !
  • hauberkhauberk Posts: 1,511
    My own must read/buy list is pretty short:

    Greg Rucka
    Dan Brereton
  • compsolutcompsolut Posts: 150
    Must read/buy for myself is pretty short, but I am pretty willing to buy a lot if it looks good, so I don't know how that factors in :)

    Creators:
    Ed Brubaker
    Brian K Vaughan
    James Tynion IV
    Ethan van Sciver
    Mike/Linda Allred
    Fiona Staples

    Characters/Titles:
    Nightwing/Dick Grayson
    Batman - main title
    Sherlock Holmes - most anything I will try
  • TheOriginalGManTheOriginalGMan Posts: 1,763
    Creators:
    Jonathon Hickman
    Ed Brubaker
    Brian K Vaughn
    Charles Soule
    Mark Waid
    Nick Spencer
    Matt Fraction
    James Robinson
  • hornheadhornhead Posts: 137
    I don't really have "must buy" creators, but I will "mostly buy" several.. there are many that I will pick up most, but not quite all, that they do. It's mainly if I find that a trusted creator that's tied to a concept that I think sounds good, it's a very good bet that I will like the book. I've found over the years that I have a pretty good ratio of hits/misses when I try things (and who wants to be picking up misses, why waste your money).

    There's other "trusted names" who I may not get all of their work but if they're tied to a concept that looks to be in my wheelhouse, the book is likely to be a good bet for me:
    Writers:
    Rucka (catching up on Lazarus which is so good)
    Lemire (I'll get most of his writing, if he's also drawing it I'll definitely pick up)
    Snyder
    Busiek
    Aaron
    Kirkman
    and to a lesser extent Brubaker, Soule, Hickman, & Bendis

    Artists:
    Darwyn Cooke (like Lemire, when writing/drawing is a must buy)
    Walt Simonson (again writing & drawing makes it a must- like on the current book Ragnarok)
    Aja
    Samnee
    Lark
    Azaceta
    Jock
    Maleev
    Sean Murphy
    Rafa Albuquerque
    James Harren
    Dustin Nguyen
    Brian Hurtt (I'll check out his next work after Sixth Gun wraps up..)

    There are MANY more artists that I like than these.. I just find that when they're tied to a concept and/or writer I like that seals the deal.. I just can't buy every book out there with cool art- there are too many. Looking through my pull list- I really have NO titles on there that have art that I'm indifferent to or don't like.

    As for publishers & characters, I'm more of a Marvel guy among the big 2, and a Daredevil & Conan guy from way back.. but I'm flirting with the idea of taking a break from the Conan the Avenger title. For now, I'm still on board.
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