Before Watchmen

jaydee74

So I'm sure there were discussions on this on the old forum but what does everyone think about this project? I'm sure a lot of people know how Alan Moore feels about it and not only that but how he feels about those who are involved with the project and anyone who would even consider buying said project. What are your thoughts?

knightwingbk

I could care less about the politics of it, but I will definitely check out some of the issues.

jaydee74

Alan Moore And 'Before Watchmen' Creators Comment On The Ethics Of 'Watchmen' Prequel
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/01/alan-moore-dave-gibbons-before-watchmen-creators-quotes-ethics-prequel/

Some interesting quotes from Moore:
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/03/13/alan-moore-watchmen-contract-gibbons/

SolitaireRose

My thoughts? We need this as much as we need that Casablanca TV series or After MASH.

jaydee74

I agree with a lot of it. I thought Watchmen was an amazing story and doesn't need anything to come before or after. However, I do love the creative teams on the projects and I'm curious. I'm just not sure how interested overall I am in something I just never considered was needed to begin with.

WetRats

In one oh his interviews, Alan Mordru stated that the characters in Watchmen weren't "complete characters" and that there was enough to them to tell other stories.

To me, that's exactly why these books are appealing: they have the potential to flesh them out into real characters, rather than mere props for Mr. Mordru's plot.

jaydee74

I agree with that and I guess I would have liked to have seen Alan Moore doing the fleshing out as opposed to other writers. One of the things I love about Astro City is that you get a single voice telling those stories and there is something nice about that. The same could be said for the world of Hellboy and the Goon.

WetRats

I agree with that and I guess I would have liked to have seen Alan Moore doing the fleshing out as opposed to other writers. One of the things I love about Astro City is that you get a single voice telling those stories and there is something nice about that. The same could be said for the world of Hellboy and the Goon.

In my experience, Kurt Busiek, especially in Astro City, tells stories that are far more about character than plot. Alan Mordru seems to care far more about his plots than he does the people in them.

jaydee74

Agreed 100% which is why I love Astro City so much. I guess I was more saying I would have liked to have seen the person who created the Watchmen characters give us more of their backstory. I am intrigued enough to listen to the buzz about these series. If there is enough positive buzz about these projects, I might consider checking them out when they are available in trade.

WetRats

Agreed 100% which is why I love Astro City so much. I guess I was more saying I would have liked to have seen the person who created the Watchmen characters give us more of their backstory.

I just don't get the impression that the person who created the Watchmen cares about their backstories.

That's probably why I find his work kind of ... soulless... It's all head and no heart.

jaydee74

Do you feel that way about everything he's written? I don't get that from some of his stuff that I've read. Certainly not The Killing Joke or For the Man Who Has Everything. That's an interesting perspective though. I've never really thought of Moore's work like that but I guess I can see it that way with a few things. Interesting.

WetRats

Do you feel that way about everything he's written? I don't get that from some of his stuff that I've read. Certainly not The Killing Joke or For the Man Who Has Everything. That's an interesting perspective though. I've never really thought of Moore's work like that but I guess I can see it that way with a few things. Interesting.

I find The Killing Joke very soulless. As I remember*, the characters were just props to be pushed around, much as The Joker was doing in the story, I felt Alan Mordru doing with the story.

And honestly, For the Man Who Has Everything made very little impression on me. I can't remember the details.


*I've only read Killing Joke once. I was so revolted by it, that I never intend to revisit it.

jaydee74

I know a lot of people feel that way about that story. I just don't have the same reaction to it although I do get people's perspective. I've always loved For The Man Who Has Everything. I thought it had a lot of character and up until I read Batman: The Cult, I thought it was one of the best Jason Todd appearances I've ever read. I guess the more I think about the story though, I do see your point about Killing Joke. I don't know. I liked how Moore did certain characters in the story. Especially Jim Gordon but different strokes I guess.

Question. How come you call him Alan Mordru?

WetRats

Question. How come you call him Alan Mordru?

Saw some fan art in which Mordru looked like Moore.

Thought it was appropriate, especially since Moore fancies himself a wizard.

jaydee74

I like that.

WetRats

I like that.

Yeah, I can't not think of him as such now.

jaydee74

I'm gonna have a hard time not thinking of him as such either. Thanks. ;)

JohnTilton

I will check it out, but to be honest, having an even every freaking year is kind of lame. they need to focus on the characters more like snyder does for batman and what mark waid is doing on daredevil.

WetRats

I will check it out, but to be honest, having an even every freaking year is kind of lame. they need to focus on the characters more like snyder does for batman and what mark waid is doing on daredevil.

And yet they keep selling. AvX preorders are very high.

DoctorDoom

I'll give some things a shot. I don't have high hopes, but I'm certainly not ready to trash it either.

jaydee74

That's all you can do really.

mguy1977

My thoughts? We need this as much as we need that Casablanca TV series or After MASH.

Amen.

No need for it. I will read something else instead like LOEG & Promethea. Throw in some Knightfall trades and I'm all set.

Matthew

David_D

My thought, to keep it simple, is that it is a bummer that DC couldn't just leave it alone, and focus this energy and top talent on the good, renewed thing it has going. Or on something completely new. Heck, or even on another round of Wednesday's Comics. I worry that this will become a tacky footnote, like DK2.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone that wants to check it out. And I certainly understand the curiosity and desire to, given the talent they have on these books. But I think I will have to not put my money where my mouth is, and pass.

Miraclemet

Alan Moore And 'Before Watchmen' Creators Comment On The Ethics Of 'Watchmen' Prequel
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/01/alan-moore-dave-gibbons-before-watchmen-creators-quotes-ethics-prequel/

Moore's choice of words are always soooo far off... he describes his contract as "draconian" (or sever) but it was no different than other contracts was it? Artist created content was the property of the publisher, with the caveat that if it went out of print after sometime the rights would revert to the author.

When the market changes (in this case the birth of the "evergreen title" via the trade format) someone is always the last contract under the old guard who gets screwed. Unfortunately it just happen to be one of the most opinionated creators in comics with one of the more revered creations in comics. Wouldn't most authors be thrilled that a publisher was continuing to package, promote and publish their work? If you published 10 short stories and then the publisher bundled them up into an anthology and re-released them and you continued to make money of them in this new format, wouldn't you be happy?

My other favorite quote is when Moore comments that Moby Dick didnt need a prequel or sequel. Nothing like a writer aligning his work with a classic of modern literature. Why didnt he just say "The Bible"? (though that really was 2 parts... Pt 1 Old testament, and then the "sequel" when they added all the CGI).

And Mr Moore? Comic books (ni this case DC) arent just dependent on ideas you had 25 years ago (which is what you say in the article). They are dependent on a slew of ideas that guys like Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Seigel & Shuster, Joe Simon, and lots of other creators had 50, 60, 75 and more years ago... Watchmen is just part of that landscape, not the whole world...

ugh... he drives me so crazy... I dont think After the Watchmen could be awesome enough to off set the annoyance I feel towards that man in the pre-hype period leading up to the comics coming out...

WetRats

Moore's choice of words are always soooo far off... he describes his contract as "draconian" (or sever) but it was no different than other contracts was it?

It was one of the best contracts written at that point. So good he asked for the same contract for V for Vendetta.

As you point out, "evergreen" titles didn't exist prior to Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns. I wonder how Miller made out with his contract.

I won't go on about Alan Mordru's overestimation of his own importance, as I did so at length on the previous forum, I'll just say "Yep. You're right."

DoctorDoom

"Alan Mordru". I love it.

"The beard that walks like a man!"

Matt

Not so much ‘Before Watchmen,’ but has anyone watched the Ultimate Cut of the movie? Just last evening. I thought it was long, but fantastic. I’m glad it has the Black Freighter interwoven in the movie. There’s also a couple lines of dialogue I didn’t remember from the theatrical release.

Probably Snyder’s best work...clearly a basis for BvS:DoJ