Episode 1605 Talkback - Captain America: Civil War Movie Review
Adam_Murdough
Posts: 506
There's no internal strife among the Geeks in this rundown of Marvel Studios' Captain America: Civil War--we all loved it! We sift through the nebula of MCU stars, old (Cap; Iron Man) and new (Black Panther; Spider-Man), appearing in the film, and revisit our favorite lines, moments, plot twists, Easter eggs, etc. Of course, SPOILERS abound! Whose side are YOU on? If it's the side of awesomeness, download this episode pronto! (1:16:26)
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Also, Don Cheadle suffered from a bit of claustrophobia after being in the armor for as long as he was during the filming of Iron Man 2, and had to take anti-anxiety meds to calm it down.
And because I mentioned it, here's the opening to the Iron Man Animated Series Season Two to get stuck in your head.
PS - I would have loved to hear @Peter give his thoughts on the movie. I don't think there is anything negative about a good healthy discussion of both the ups and downs of a movie.
So happy chris liked Black Panther
My new question coming out of it is Tony Mentions "UFO's over Phoenix " which does make me wonder if that was more than an conspiracy theory joke. At first I thought GOTG but that was Missouri, however we might see sequel scenes next year there. But wonder now if its Hulk heading off world for Thor which we know now has less than 5% on earth scenes so as co star he has to head off at some point and its an area Banner spent time and origin Gamma Base... the other is still connected to the Hulk in a way and That's that its where Rick Jones is from. Someone who is also connected to Captain Marvel that would also provided a outlet for aliens .... or am I just thinking to much
CHeers guys
That's why I believe Steve found out the truth beforehand.
M
While I wouldn't give the movie 5/5 stars like all of you did, I did have lots of fun watching it. But since so many are praising it... I'll go ahead and play devil's advocate, and list the things which bothered me. Here goes!
- The villain. While I loved the actor Daniel Bruhl, I have to say, I was underwhelmed by what we finally learn is Zemo's motivation and plan. I disagree with Chris here; while I did think it was well-acted, it nonetheless struck me as mustache-twisty. Essentially, it boils down to: "To get revenge, I, Helmut Zemo - whose name is a total cocktease in this film - I am going to frame Captain America's psycho pal for murder, in the fiendish hopes that it will turn Iron Man against Cap, then somehow cause the Avengers to choose sides / then they will actually come to blows with each other over this / then destroy themselves from within!!!" :confused: I mean... this Zemo started his plan *even before* the Sokovia Accords very conveniently help him out, lol. And about his name? He could've used the alias Franz Klein (or whatever), the story wouldn't have changed a bit. Truthfully, I'd've preferred that, with the reveal of his true Zemo name coming to us only at the end. At least then I wouldn't have spent the entire movie waiting for something which never materialized.
- Tony's actions. Forget about the fact that this is the second Avengers vehicle in a row built upon the plot of "Tony's good intentions get out of hand and wreak havoc for everyone"... let's just look at what drives him through this movie. Tony helps usher in the Sokovia Accords because he is sick of heroes acting on their own with no oversight, and recklessly risking innocent lives. He even gets guilted out in an entire scene where Alfre Woodard blames him for the death of her young son in Sokovia. So what does Tony do? He flies to New York, charms/blackmails a 16 year old kid into coming back to Germany with him, and smacks him right down into the middle of a violent, superpowered war. Was it fun to see New Spidey, and to see him with other Marvel heroes? Of course. But it also makes me hate Tony too much, who doesn't know how stable this boy's (6 month old) powers are - yet he still tosses the kid into the middle of a riot. Not for nothin', but I also cringed when the script had this young Spider-Man shout "holy shit." I get it, superheroes saying curse words is funny, but... these Marvel superhero films are supposed to be more family-friendly than Fox's or DC/WB's.
- Character growth. Out of the 12 heroes in Civil War? Only two (Black Panther and maybe Bucky) undergo any character growth by film's end. Even our *title character* is exactly the same at the end as he was at the beginning. As for all the other heroes here... I sometimes felt they were just glorified, fan-servicing extras. Warm bodies for the airport fight, so we could call this movie Civil War and not Civil Duel. Mark Millar's Civil War comic book miniseries took 7 issues to debate the fascinating concepts behind the Superhuman Registration Act; why it made sense / why it didn't. I think this movie spent a grand total of three minutes of screen time on those issues. And I know, this is a movie, not a comic book miniseries, but... I really loved the comic, and felt like its story didn't get due diligence here.
- Skirting MCU movie continuity. Why didn't any of our Avengers raise a hand during Ross' big "look what destruction you cause" speech, and say "In the first Avengers movie, the U.S. government is the one who launched a nuclear missile at Manhattan, intending to destroy all life and every building within a 5 mile radius. We're the ones who neutralized your death missile / staved off the alien attack / and saved billions of dollars in property damage let alone countless human lives. So... why are you blaming us again? Also, in Avengers 2, would you have preferred it if we let the near-omnipotent robot destroy Sokovia and then all life on Earth, instead of us intervening and killing the robot?"
- Other things that bugged me: I felt a general sense of "there is way too much on this plate." Avengers sequel + Cap sequel + Civil War subplot (very sub) + Black Panther setup + Setup/maintenance of other MCU characters. It was all done well. But it often felt like a Vegas buffet to me, instead of a perfect three-course meal, like I felt "Cap II: Winter Soldier" was. Also, who exactly shot that convenient video of Bucky killing Howard and Maria Stark? :lol: How on earth could Zemo know Tony would be joining Cap & Bucky in Siberia at the end, so he could show Tony the convenient video? Tony's arrival was spontaneous. And am I the only one weirded out by Cap's romance with the 25 year old niece of the love of his life?? :joy:
Okay, that's it. Regardless of all my gripes above, I truly did have fun with "Cap III: Civil War." I give it a B+
There was no reason to believe that either side was looking to kill the other (aside from T'Challa) when the airport battle occurred. And T'Challa was on Tony's side also.
Was Zemo treated any differently then the MCU Mandarin? People assumed one thing & got another. They took liberties like they have in the past.
As for his plan, is it really different then the scheme from villains in the comic books? What about your typical Bond villain? Are there certain things that had to fall into place? Certainly, but we also don't know how specific those plans needed to be. Maybe if things didn't all turn right, there were variations of the plan to get the same end result.
Unless I'm mistaken, it technically wasn't the US government who ordered the nuke on NY. It was the World Council, similar to the UN. With a world representative making such calls, they've come to grips with being accountable. There's no accountability when the Avengers act as a private entity.
M
Zemo: Well, while this guy isn't like Zemo in the comics, he IS definitely a schemer and a long term planner. I imagine that while he is imprisoned he is planning something even now. And I think the reason why we are allowed to know that he is Zemo throughout the film is to to actually see his character grow, change, and in the end actually attempt suicide. Should he be used in future films, and my expectations are leaning that way, I'm sure all that will be important. I don't feel I need to learn the totality of this character in one movie. It was interesting finding out that his initial plan got frustrated, so he went to plan B (blow up something to flush out Bucky), and while I can't explain who shot the video of the Stark assassination (maybe they had other agents doing recon to insure Bucky carried out his missions?), I can answer how Zemo new Stark would (eventually) be there to face either Cap or Bucky. It's because he let it be known that he killed the real psychiatrist. Tony would then know he was mistaken about Bucky, would go ask the Cap-team where Steve went, and abracadabra: it's a set up. Sure, it was convenient, but it made sense in a movie.
Character Growth: Well, I think Cap's character also grew. He now realizes he truly can't trust the government, that there are some folks that he still can truly trust, made a new ally in Black Panther, and that even though he was in severe conflict with Tony, he still reaches out to him in the end. Plus, he realized that he probably should have made a move on Sharon long before. Speaking of which, I can't really be "weirded out" by Cap's romance with Sharon since I've been reading about it in the comics since 1968 or so. In addition, there's Vision, though without acknowledging it yet, probably realized he has feelings for Wanda, and Wanda got more field experience (even though in one instance, it didn't turn out well, but she redeemed herself at the airport). Also I think the comic Civil War and the movie Civil War conflicts are slightly different. In the movie, the issue was control vs. freedom, while in the comics not only was the control vs. freedom issue "discussed" (lots of fighting there too!) but also the heroes' secret identities, plus the aspect of getting former villains involved. As a result, I didn't feel shortchanged because I didn't go in thinking I had to compare it to Civil War, the comic. It was just Cap and a few others not wanting to be controlled by the government, with the underlying Zemo plot in which he just used the accords to further his ends. Even without the accords he would've eventually shown the video to Tony to try and divide them because of Cap and Bucky's friendship.
No mention of the missing footage, no mention of the camera getting shot, but doesn't mean it wasn't covered up by HYDRA.
M
So maybe we'll get lucky and the real Zemo will show up too. ;)
M
M
Civil War Zemo is no Busiek- or Nicieza-written Zemo, but at the same time, he's not this guy.
For a screen Marvel Universe that's afraid to say Nazis, this one man revenge squad Zemo was great.
The bit with his phone though was done a couple years ago by superhero anime Samurai Flamenco.
Yes yes yes. I agree with your analysis of the movie. I can think of about five MCU films that were superior.