Episode 1697 Talkback - Avengers: Infinity War Movie Review

Adam_Murdough

The culmination of ten years of Marvel Studios filmmaking, Avengers: Infinity War is already a cosmic-scale blockbuster, and it's thrown down the Gauntlet to all other superhero movies past and present. Now, no fewer than five CGS Geeks assemble to share their reactions to this watershed moment in comic-book cinema. It's a GEM of an episode! (1:26:52)

Listen here.

Mr_Cosmic

@Adam_Murdough Black Widow has bleached hair for the same reason Steve has a beard and a blacked out star on his chest. They are criminals in hiding post Civil War.

jaydee74

I was thinking that too. Even though Natasha was on Tony's side, she did let Steve and Bucky go and that made her a fugitive. I didn't mind the look. Also, in regards to Peter's death scene, he knew it was happening before it happened. His spider-sense told him was what was going on and that's why he had the reaction he did.

Matt

jaydee74 said:

I was thinking that too. Even though Natasha was on Tony's side, she did let Steve and Bucky go and that made her a fugitive. I didn't mind the look. Also, in regards to Peter's death scene, he knew it was happening before it happened. His spider-sense told him was what was going on and that's why he had the reaction he did.

If it’s Tobey’s Spider-man I might buy that, but they didn’t really establish that ability in the MCU. Plus, I don’t think he needed Spider-sense to tell him his body is dissipating.

And it wasn’t the realization that he had of his dying, but the sappiness of how it played out. The dialogue & time it took for him to die felt ridiculous.

hauberk

Matt said:

jaydee74 said:

I was thinking that too. Even though Natasha was on Tony's side, she did let Steve and Bucky go and that made her a fugitive. I didn't mind the look. Also, in regards to Peter's death scene, he knew it was happening before it happened. His spider-sense told him was what was going on and that's why he had the reaction he did.

If it’s Tobey’s Spider-man I might buy that, but they didn’t really establish that ability in the MCU. Plus, I don’t think he needed Spider-sense to tell him his body is dissipating.

And it wasn’t the realization that he had of his dying, but the sappiness of how it played out. The dialogue & time it took for him to die felt ridiculous.

Sure they did - the on the bus, the hair on his arm when up when the ship came down. It's what sent him to the battle.

Matt

hauberk said:

Matt said:

jaydee74 said:

I was thinking that too. Even though Natasha was on Tony's side, she did let Steve and Bucky go and that made her a fugitive. I didn't mind the look. Also, in regards to Peter's death scene, he knew it was happening before it happened. His spider-sense told him was what was going on and that's why he had the reaction he did.

If it’s Tobey’s Spider-man I might buy that, but they didn’t really establish that ability in the MCU. Plus, I don’t think he needed Spider-sense to tell him his body is dissipating.

And it wasn’t the realization that he had of his dying, but the sappiness of how it played out. The dialogue & time it took for him to die felt ridiculous.

Sure they did - the on the bus, the hair on his arm when up when the ship came down. It's what sent him to the battle.

Eh. That really didn’t establish the ability. Sure we presume that’s how it works in this version, but felt more like a one-off then establishing an ability.

ShaneKelly

I took it as they were establishing his Spider-sense ability on the bus scene.

Matt

ShaneKelly said:

I took it as they were establishing his Spider-sense ability on the bus scene.

It’s a ball drop then. His hairs go up, presumably establishing a new ability & he makes no comment about it. Even in passing? He at least did that in Secret Wars when he got his new suit.

TheOriginalGMan

Eh, I think they were definitely signaling his Spidey sense with the hairs on the arm. Heck, it's part of our pop culture, at this point. I think the average person going to that movie knows what it was meant to imply.

hauberk

Matt said:

ShaneKelly said:

I took it as they were establishing his Spider-sense ability on the bus scene.

It’s a ball drop then. His hairs go up, presumably establishing a new ability & he makes no comment about it. Even in passing? He at least did that in Secret Wars when he got his new suit.

Hardly a ball drop. They used visual shorthand to take him from a head down position to fully aware that something was happening. Clearly not a static issue given that no one else on the bus experienced the same thing.

Perhaps the Wikipedia article authors just glossed over this element? ;-P

Matt

hauberk said:

Matt said:

ShaneKelly said:

I took it as they were establishing his Spider-sense ability on the bus scene.

It’s a ball drop then. His hairs go up, presumably establishing a new ability & he makes no comment about it. Even in passing? He at least did that in Secret Wars when he got his new suit.

Hardly a ball drop. They used visual shorthand to take him from a head down position to fully aware that something was happening. Clearly not a static issue given that no one else on the bus experienced the same thing.

Perhaps the Wikipedia article authors just glossed over this element? ;-P

It was a ball drop moment because his hairs weren’t shown standing up as he was about to dissipate. And it’s quite a long trip to Titan. No mention of anything weird happening to his body with Tony?

Maybe, but the hair scene was in the trailers. No need to read Wikipedia when there were a plethora of articles on the movie.

https://youtu.be/l0ni-6xbyRU

Matt

TheOriginalGMan said:

Eh, I think they were definitely signaling his Spidey sense with the hairs on the arm. Heck, it's part of our pop culture, at this point. I think the average person going to that movie knows what it was meant to imply.

It’s implied, but I don’t recall Tobey’s hairs standing when his Spidey sense kicked in. I can’t speak for Andrew’s hair, I’ve only seen his first movie & only one viewing.

Matt

Matt said:

jaydee74 said:

I was thinking that too. Even though Natasha was on Tony's side, she did let Steve and Bucky go and that made her a fugitive. I didn't mind the look. Also, in regards to Peter's death scene, he knew it was happening before it happened. His spider-sense told him was what was going on and that's why he had the reaction he did.

If it’s Tobey’s Spider-man I might buy that, but they didn’t really establish that ability in the MCU. Plus, I don’t think he needed Spider-sense to tell him his body is dissipating.

And it wasn’t the realization that he had of his dying, but the sappiness of how it played out. The dialogue & time it took for him to die felt ridiculous.

I feel like the issue with his death has become about his “feeling” of his dissipation. That’s going down the wrong rabbit hole.

jaydee74

I think even for a 2 hour and 40-minute movie, they couldn't editorialize every single thing. I believe as many others do that the bus scene establishes the Spider-Sense. I feel it was shown that he has that power and you don't need to talk about it. Here are two articles about whether or not Peter knew what was happening before it happened.

As for the relationship between Peter and Tony. I like it. I think it's different than the comics and that's fine. Why should be exactly the same? I like the mentor/father-figure Tony has with Peter and it made Peter's end all the more heartbreaking. As I said, I'm knowledgeable enough about the comics and yet I still found this sad and I don't mind saying I teared up.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/04/29/avengers-infinity-war-heartbreaking-spider-man-realization/

https://screenrant.com/infinity-war-spider-man-death-spidey-sense/

Matt

jaydee74 said:

I think even for a 2 hour and 40-minute movie, they couldn't editorialize every single thing. I believe as many others do that the bus scene establishes the Spider-Sense. I feel it was shown that he has that power and you don't need to talk about it. Here are two articles about whether or not Peter knew what was happening before it happened.

As for the relationship between Peter and Tony. I like it. I think it's different than the comics and that's fine. Why should be exactly the same? I like the mentor/father-figure Tony has with Peter and it made Peter's end all the more heartbreaking. As I said, I'm knowledgeable enough about the comics and yet I still found this sad and I don't mind saying I teared up.

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/04/29/avengers-infinity-war-heartbreaking-spider-man-realization/

https://screenrant.com/infinity-war-spider-man-death-spidey-sense/

I’d prefer articles or clips that involve interviews with the directors or writing crew then articles written about it.

There were moments before his death that could’ve indicated the same feeling as the bus. Even just a “The hairs on my arm are standing again.”

And I’m still not sure how we’re riding this bucket elevator down the hole.

jaydee74

I found this video and thought it was interesting enough so I wanted to share it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icgVoIWpUbM

hauberk

Matt said:

TheOriginalGMan said:

Eh, I think they were definitely signaling his Spidey sense with the hairs on the arm. Heck, it's part of our pop culture, at this point. I think the average person going to that movie knows what it was meant to imply.

It’s implied, but I don’t recall Tobey’s hairs standing when his Spidey sense kicked in. I can’t speak for Andrew’s hair, I’ve only seen his first movie & only one viewing.

Utterly irrelevant - those are different Spider-Men with different interpretations of the powers. The only relevant elements here are the Tom Holland appearances. To that effect, this is the first time that the Spider-sense has been depicted with a bare arm. Didn't see it on Titan? He was in a full body armored costume, was he supposed to take off a glove and roll up his sleeve so that you could acknowledge that it was being consistently applied?

Matt

hauberk said:

Matt said:

TheOriginalGMan said:

Eh, I think they were definitely signaling his Spidey sense with the hairs on the arm. Heck, it's part of our pop culture, at this point. I think the average person going to that movie knows what it was meant to imply.

It’s implied, but I don’t recall Tobey’s hairs standing when his Spidey sense kicked in. I can’t speak for Andrew’s hair, I’ve only seen his first movie & only one viewing.

Utterly irrelevant - those are different Spider-Men with different interpretations of the powers. The only relevant elements here are the Tom Holland appearances. To that effect, this is the first time that the Spider-sense has been depicted with a bare arm. Didn't see it on Titan? He was in a full body armored costume, was he supposed to take off a glove and roll up his sleeve so that you could acknowledge that it was being consistently applied?

Disagree. It was a dick comment about how this is the first time we’ve seen the Spider-sense presented with raised arm hairs. Sure the ability is apart of pop culture, but in the past it’s been presented with flashing images intermitten with blue & red flashes and as a 360 degree view. Moving forward, are we just supposed to presume when he experiences Spider-sense his arm hair is raised?

So he couldn’t have commented that since the ship arrived in New York, he’s been feeling weird. Like some type of enhanced awareness? Doesn’t even have to roll up a sleeve or pant leg to show it.

And don’t say there wasn’t a point in the movie to make that comment. It took only a few moments for him to comment on what his new suit could do & getting webshooters back in the Secret Wars. Rather then expand more on the “you shouldn’t be here, it’s not safe” conversation, he couldn’t mentioned something then.

hauberk

Matt said:

hauberk said:

Matt said:

TheOriginalGMan said:

Eh, I think they were definitely signaling his Spidey sense with the hairs on the arm. Heck, it's part of our pop culture, at this point. I think the average person going to that movie knows what it was meant to imply.

It’s implied, but I don’t recall Tobey’s hairs standing when his Spidey sense kicked in. I can’t speak for Andrew’s hair, I’ve only seen his first movie & only one viewing.

Utterly irrelevant - those are different Spider-Men with different interpretations of the powers. The only relevant elements here are the Tom Holland appearances. To that effect, this is the first time that the Spider-sense has been depicted with a bare arm. Didn't see it on Titan? He was in a full body armored costume, was he supposed to take off a glove and roll up his sleeve so that you could acknowledge that it was being consistently applied?

Disagree. It was a dick comment about how this is the first time we’ve seen the Spider-sense presented with raised arm hairs. Sure the ability is apart of pop culture, but in the past it’s been presented with flashing images intermitten with blue & red flashes and as a 360 degree view. Moving forward, are we just supposed to presume when he experiences Spider-sense his arm hair is raised?

So he couldn’t have commented that since the ship arrived in New York, he’s been feeling weird. Like some type of enhanced awareness? Doesn’t even have to roll up a sleeve or pant leg to show it.

And don’t say there wasn’t a point in the movie to make that comment. It took only a few moments for him to comment on what his new suit could do & getting webshooters back in the Secret Wars. Rather then expand more on the “you shouldn’t be here, it’s not safe” conversation, he couldn’t mentioned something then.

So, should Garfield have had dialog explaining why he didn't have organic webshooters? Who is to say that that dialog wasn't present in an original cut and eliminated because over 80% of the screeners understood the visual language presenting the arm hair thing. There's also been no dialog on how Aunt May was suddenly smoking hot. Everyone that I've talked to and, aside from you, the entire sample commenting here shares the interpretation that it was clearly Spider-sense.

I kind of feel like you're being intentionally obtuse.

hauberk

With regard to survivors, I don't recall seeing Banner alive in the aftermath. What is causing the interpretation that he survived being phased into a cliff face? He wouldn't have smoked out if he were already dead before Thanos ashed everyone else.

Matt

hauberk said:

Matt said:

hauberk said:

Matt said:

TheOriginalGMan said:

Eh, I think they were definitely signaling his Spidey sense with the hairs on the arm. Heck, it's part of our pop culture, at this point. I think the average person going to that movie knows what it was meant to imply.

It’s implied, but I don’t recall Tobey’s hairs standing when his Spidey sense kicked in. I can’t speak for Andrew’s hair, I’ve only seen his first movie & only one viewing.

Utterly irrelevant - those are different Spider-Men with different interpretations of the powers. The only relevant elements here are the Tom Holland appearances. To that effect, this is the first time that the Spider-sense has been depicted with a bare arm. Didn't see it on Titan? He was in a full body armored costume, was he supposed to take off a glove and roll up his sleeve so that you could acknowledge that it was being consistently applied?

Disagree. It was a dick comment about how this is the first time we’ve seen the Spider-sense presented with raised arm hairs. Sure the ability is apart of pop culture, but in the past it’s been presented with flashing images intermitten with blue & red flashes and as a 360 degree view. Moving forward, are we just supposed to presume when he experiences Spider-sense his arm hair is raised?

So he couldn’t have commented that since the ship arrived in New York, he’s been feeling weird. Like some type of enhanced awareness? Doesn’t even have to roll up a sleeve or pant leg to show it.

And don’t say there wasn’t a point in the movie to make that comment. It took only a few moments for him to comment on what his new suit could do & getting webshooters back in the Secret Wars. Rather then expand more on the “you shouldn’t be here, it’s not safe” conversation, he couldn’t mentioned something then.

So, should Garfield have had dialog explaining why he didn't have organic webshooters? Who is to say that that dialog wasn't present in an original cut and eliminated because over 80% of the screeners understood the visual language presenting the arm hair thing. There's also been no dialog on how Aunt May was suddenly smoking hot. Everyone that I've talked to and, aside from you, the entire sample commenting here shares the interpretation that it was clearly Spider-sense.

I kind of feel like you're being intentionally obtuse.

For you, yes, he should’ve had a 5 minute monologue about the missing organic webshooters; it’s clearly the same thing. There also should’ve been a screen crawl with an explanation of May’s hotness.

I’m happy for everyone else. I’ve always base my point of view on what “everyone else” thinks. I can’t tell you the number of bridges I’ve conga lined over.

I’m not even certain how we got down this rabbit hole? Was it because of my eye rolling at Pete describing how he was feeling as he was dissipating? That had nothing to do with the Spider-sense, but the scene itself. For the record, the transcript can be reviewed & find I never said the hair raising wasn’t Spider-sense. I said it’s presumed to be. I also indicated I would’ve liked more of a reference to it. It felt like a one-off moment.

i_am_scifi

Sooooooo...in conclusion, it was his Spider-sense? 😇

Matt

Presumably.

BionicDave

Saw ‘Infinity War’ yesterday, thought it was awesome, then (as per my custom) I quickly listened to the CGS review episode, and thought it was great, too - up until 43:13. I guess it is inevitable: it is apparently impossible for you guys to praise a Marvel movie without bashing DC yet again.

In this case, I really hope Chris was at least bashing only DCEU movies (including “Wonder Woman” tho?) and not the entirety of published DC Comics when he said “I love DC too but I’m sorry, they just don’t have that. Like, they don’t have… it’s a different approach, it’s just a different… feel, and I love that too but Marvel just has that, they have that interaction with the characters, that just works so well, and humanizes them.” Truthfully, I don’t know for sure what his target was. He led up to that by preaching about Marvel’s Silver Age of comics, so when he brought up DC, he very well might’ve been saying that Marvel Comics has some kind of exclusive copyright on great writing and great characters. But for many of us who love both Marvel and DC? None of that part of the podcast was respectful or fun. Seeing Matt running all over the forums trolling DC fans is one thing - but if that’s becoming a staple of the podcasts themselves? I’ll just skip them from now on.

We all know it’s a tough time to be a fan of DC movies. These early efforts at a modern DCEU have been a mixed bag at best, and they happen to be struggling to their feet at a time when Disney has its MCU running world-record sprints and marathons all around them. Even for those of us old enough to understand the pendulum of trends - how Marvel rules one era, then DC does, then back to Marvel, etc. - it’s still a uniquely bittersweet time for comic fans, as we’ve never had to contend with things like modern social media, as well as a monolithic Hollywood studio system weaponizing what was once a petty, niche publishing rivalry between nerds into corporate brand warfare for the mainstream masses. If you happen to like DC, you learn to have a thick skin/ stay patient/ stay mostly quiet/ focus on DC’s efforts in other media. But it helps when you can rely on your friends to respect what you love. I might not know you CGS guys in real life, but after years of listening to you and even interacting with you, I do consider you my friends. Which is why it stings to get this DC hate from you.

Orius

I love DC movies, particularly Watchmen, The Dark Knight, V For Vendetta, and not just the gritty ones either, since I also love the two Richard Donner Superman movies.

But you know, ever since Man of Steel came out, it is a bit tough for DC fans. I want to like DC movies as much as Marvel ones. Heck, a while ago, I was bothered by how much comedy Marvel crammed into their stories. In fact, I still am. But even I, one of the biggest critics of the MCU, have to admit that Marvel just has a stronger grip on the movie-making business. Yes, the business, not necessarily the storytelling. The storytelling's great, especially after how Infinity War shocks us with that ending, but I feel like the key element here is that Marvel handled the cinematic stuff patiently, building character arcs one at a time. And this is something I feel Warner Brothers isn't incapable of doing. The Dark Knight and the other films I mentioned above show that WB is capable of doing characters justice... sometimes.

So I will remain opened to being a fan of DC movies - if they ever let me be so again. But right now, I think I just need to take a break till WB gets their crap together. Wonder Woman was great (from what I hear). Pull another one like that and I might give you the time of day.

Matt

BionicDave said:

Saw ‘Infinity War’ yesterday, thought it was awesome, then (as per my custom) I quickly listened to the CGS review episode, and thought it was great, too - up until 43:13. I guess it is inevitable: it is apparently impossible for you guys to praise a Marvel movie without bashing DC yet again.

In this case, I really hope Chris was at least bashing only DCEU movies (including “Wonder Woman” tho?) and not the entirety of published DC Comics when he said “I love DC too but I’m sorry, they just don’t have that. Like, they don’t have… it’s a different approach, it’s just a different… feel, and I love that too but Marvel just has that, they have that interaction with the characters, that just works so well, and humanizes them.” Truthfully, I don’t know for sure what his target was. He led up to that by preaching about Marvel’s Silver Age of comics, so when he brought up DC, he very well might’ve been saying that Marvel Comics has some kind of exclusive copyright on great writing and great characters. But for many of us who love both Marvel and DC? None of that part of the podcast was respectful or fun. Seeing Matt running all over the forums trolling DC fans is one thing - but if that’s becoming a staple of the podcasts themselves? I’ll just skip them from now on.

We all know it’s a tough time to be a fan of DC movies. These early efforts at a modern DCEU have been a mixed bag at best, and they happen to be struggling to their feet at a time when Disney has its MCU running world-record sprints and marathons all around them. Even for those of us old enough to understand the pendulum of trends - how Marvel rules one era, then DC does, then back to Marvel, etc. - it’s still a uniquely bittersweet time for comic fans, as we’ve never had to contend with things like modern social media, as well as a monolithic Hollywood studio system weaponizing what was once a petty, niche publishing rivalry between nerds into corporate brand warfare for the mainstream masses. If you happen to like DC, you learn to have a thick skin/ stay patient/ stay mostly quiet/ focus on DC’s efforts in other media. But it helps when you can rely on your friends to respect what you love. I might not know you CGS guys in real life, but after years of listening to you and even interacting with you, I do consider you my friends. Which is why it stings to get this DC hate from you.

I’ll have to listen to the last couple movie reviews I was apart of. I don’t recall a discussion on DC movies being brought up.

And I’m only trolling the hardo DC fans, and only on occasion. The ones who claim if you don’t like BvS:DoJ it’s only because you don’t understand it.

I can’t speak for Chris or the other chaps, but I had high hopes for the DCEU after Man of Steel (just look at my posts on that thread). I’m still hoping for a sequel. There’s probably some disappointment that they’re stumbling instead of picking up stride; I only partly blame Snyder for that.

I’ll be there at the theatre for MoS2 and Wonder Woman 2, just as I was for the first outings. At this point, I’m only going to the theatre to see movies that interest me. Not just because they’re in a genre I like.

Matt

Orius said:

I love DC movies, particularly Watchmen, The Dark Knight, V For Vendetta, and not just the gritty ones either, since I also love the two Richard Donner Superman movies.

But you know, ever since Man of Steel came out, it is a bit tough for DC fans. I want to like DC movies as much as Marvel ones. Heck, a while ago, I was bothered by how much comedy Marvel crammed into their stories. In fact, I still am. But even I, one of the biggest critics of the MCU, have to admit that Marvel just has a stronger grip on the movie-making business. Yes, the business, not necessarily the storytelling. The storytelling's great, especially after how Infinity War shocks us with that ending, but I feel like the key element here is that Marvel handled the cinematic stuff patiently, building character arcs one at a time. And this is something I feel Warner Brothers isn't incapable of doing. The Dark Knight and the other films I mentioned above show that WB is capable of doing characters justice... sometimes.

So I will remain opened to being a fan of DC movies - if they ever let me be so again. But right now, I think I just need to take a break till WB gets their crap together. Wonder Woman was great (from what I hear). Pull another one like that and I might give you the time of day.

Warner Brothers’ issue is they want the payoff without taking the risk. Any time there was a hint of a bumpy road, they pivot to change course. I enjoyed what Snyder did with MoS (and I think the Ultimate Edition of Watchmen is one of the best in the genre), but I think he was given too freedom and tried to make the DCEU the same as Watchmen.

They were profitable, but just didn’t seem to gain the appeal they should’ve. Which is bizarre that BvS: DoJ could make that kind of scratch & not be that well received. Did the people who liked it see the film 5-6 times?

I read the criticism often that the DCEU should’ve done solo films to build to the group ones. It worked for the MCU, but I don’t think it’s the only way. Both Spidey & Black Panther spun out of Civil War. I think they could’ve stayed the course, but probably should’ve excelerated the movie releases. MCU was doing a couple movies a year. The DCEU seemed to “wait & see” before the next movie came out.

I think both The Dark Knight & Wonder Woman are great movies, but I think they’ve become grossly overhyped. I’d probably rank TDK #3 in that trilogy. I think WW gets the accolades it does because of what it (reportedly) represents instead of what it actually is.

The 3 MCU movies in 2017 did lean more to the humor side then I’d have preferred. When you say “I still am,” is that in reference to Black Panther & IW as well?

Was the ending of IW shocking? It’s the one I was expecting. Maybe I’d have been more surprised if it didn’t happened then seeing it. Like how Cap didn’t get killed at the end of Civil War.

Orius

Matt said:

Warner Brothers’ issue is they want the payoff without taking the risk. Any time there was a hint of a bumpy road, they pivot to change course.

I read the criticism often that the DCEU should’ve done solo films to build to the group ones. It worked for the MCU, but I don’t think it’s the only way. Both Spidey & Black Panther spun out of Civil War. I think they could’ve stayed the course, but probably should’ve excelerated the movie releases. MCU was doing a couple movies a year. The DCEU seemed to “wait & see” before the next movie came out.

I think that's the whole problem with Warner Brothers, one that both Marvel and DC fans alike have been saying for a long time - they're so impatient. They want that MCU success without doing the homework.

The Civil War cameos work, yes, but that's only with the establishment of familiar characters that have been developed over the course of many years (aka Iron Man and Captain America). The cameos are secondary (heck, tertiary) to the main focus, which was Tony and Steve, so those cameos didn't become a distraction or a problem. Therefore, I still firmly believe that solo movies were the way to go first.

And it's easy to forget that Marvel's early days weren't all sunshine and rainbows either; Iron Man 2 and The Incredible Hulk didn't exactly have the MCU's brand of success today, so I think WB's frustrations over Man of Steel's lackluster results were unwarranted. On that aspect, I think you're right in that they should have stayed the course in spite of critical failure for MoS.

Matt said:

The 3 MCU movies in 2017 did lean more to the humor side then I’d have preferred. When you say “I still am,” is that in reference to Black Panther & IW as well?

Actually, that stemmed more from my annoyance at Ant-Man & The Wasp's comedic tone. I mean, I get that the first movie was a comedy, but that trailer just reminds me of that part of the MCU I couldn't care much about, no matter how I tried in the past (and besides, IW left me spoiled for more drama and despair rather than the opposite like everyone else). I don't know. I guess Marvel's brand of comedy just didn't work for me sometimes - and I love quite a number of comedies.

Black Panther and Infinity War do have a dash of comedy as well, but the comedy never overshadowed the drama of the storyline like, say, Thor: Ragnarok did (in fact, I called Black Panther "Thor: Ragnarok done right" due to their similar stories about lying fathers and a bloodshed history behind their throne). There's a stronger focus to what's important to the characters in both BP and IW that made them better, that made them stand out - and not that different from how The Winter Soldier stand out either, another movie with "focus". I feel like that's the keyword here, "focus".

Matt said:

Was the ending of IW shocking? It’s the one I was expecting. Maybe I’d have been more surprised if it didn’t happened then seeing it. Like how Cap didn’t get killed at the end of Civil War.

To be fair, Cap didn't get killed till after the Civil War comic book event ended (or mostly ended, I guess). He was killed in "Fallen Son", not exactly Civil War. It was more like a "Civil War: Aftermath" sort of storyline, like "Ultimate Fallout".

Erm, yeah, it was shocking to me, because I never expected Disney/Marvel to go through with it. I thought they would maybe meet it halfway or even less, not go all the way in the manner the Infinity comic book did. I mean, they did cut down on Tony Stark's alcoholism problem in Iron Man 2 - though I guess death is a simpler concept to explain to children than alcoholism...

wildpigcomics

BionicDave said:

Saw ‘Infinity War’ yesterday, thought it was awesome, then (as per my custom) I quickly listened to the CGS review episode, and thought it was great, too - up until 43:13. I guess it is inevitable: it is apparently impossible for you guys to praise a Marvel movie without bashing DC yet again.

In this case, I really hope Chris was at least bashing only DCEU movies (including “Wonder Woman” tho?) and not the entirety of published DC Comics when he said “I love DC too but I’m sorry, they just don’t have that. Like, they don’t have… it’s a different approach, it’s just a different… feel, and I love that too but Marvel just has that, they have that interaction with the characters, that just works so well, and humanizes them.” Truthfully, I don’t know for sure what his target was. He led up to that by preaching about Marvel’s Silver Age of comics, so when he brought up DC, he very well might’ve been saying that Marvel Comics has some kind of exclusive copyright on great writing and great characters. But for many of us who love both Marvel and DC? None of that part of the podcast was respectful or fun. Seeing Matt running all over the forums trolling DC fans is one thing - but if that’s becoming a staple of the podcasts themselves? I’ll just skip them from now on.

We all know it’s a tough time to be a fan of DC movies. These early efforts at a modern DCEU have been a mixed bag at best, and they happen to be struggling to their feet at a time when Disney has its MCU running world-record sprints and marathons all around them. Even for those of us old enough to understand the pendulum of trends - how Marvel rules one era, then DC does, then back to Marvel, etc. - it’s still a uniquely bittersweet time for comic fans, as we’ve never had to contend with things like modern social media, as well as a monolithic Hollywood studio system weaponizing what was once a petty, niche publishing rivalry between nerds into corporate brand warfare for the mainstream masses. If you happen to like DC, you learn to have a thick skin/ stay patient/ stay mostly quiet/ focus on DC’s efforts in other media. But it helps when you can rely on your friends to respect what you love. I might not know you CGS guys in real life, but after years of listening to you and even interacting with you, I do consider you my friends. Which is why it stings to get this DC hate from you.

Dave, I was merely expressing my opinion when it comes to what I consider the contrast between the recent Marvel and DC films in terms of overall quality. I have praised the Wonder Woman film numerous times; I would hold it up to any of the Marvel flicks. That said, I wasn't "bashing" DC, or expressing "hate" towards it, let alone ranting, shouting, or foaming at the mouth.

Marvel has an "exclusive copyright on great writing and great characters?" Some of the greatest yarns the medium has ever produced have come out of DC: Batman Year One, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Sandman, Moore's Swamp Thing, Crisis, New Teen Titans by Wolfman/Perez, O'Neil/Adams Batman, the list goes on and on...Granted, I grew up primarily reading Marvel, and I naturally gravitate towards those characters. I have always believed that the approach to characterization that Lee/Kirby/Ditko/Heck, etc. brought to the Marvel Silver Age shook up the superhero medium for the better, and paved the way for numerous classics from both companies.

If anything, I was referring to how that approach to characterization is evident in the Marvel films to a far more satisfying degree than the DC offerings. Wonder Woman is a notable exception from my point of view, as that outstanding film took the time to really develop and humanize her character through humor and pathos (and her superb chemistry with Steve Trevor). The Donner Superman film (which remains my favorite comic book adaptation) lovingly captures both the mythic and human elements of the Man of Steel. The Nolan Batman trilogy is a masterpiece in my book. The recent DC films, which I root for with every new release, are too often rushed, too top heavy with interminable action scenes, and characterization suffers as a result (again, Wonder Woman is a refreshing exception). I owned a comic shop for nearly 20 years, and took on all the inevitable struggles that come with that business. How could I not respect and love DC characters?

As always, thanks for listening, and for supporting the show. I'm sorry to read that you took my comments as disrespectful and hateful. Providing our unvarnished opinions is part and parcel of what CGS is about, and it's all in service to the medium we all love. I hope you'll stick around.

Best,

Chris

Matt

Orius said:

Matt said:

Was the ending of IW shocking? It’s the one I was expecting. Maybe I’d have been more surprised if it didn’t happened then seeing it. Like how Cap didn’t get killed at the end of Civil War.

To be fair, Cap didn't get killed till after the Civil War comic book event ended (or mostly ended, I guess). He was killed in "Fallen Son", not exactly Civil War. It was more like a "Civil War: Aftermath" sort of storyline, like "Ultimate Fallout".

Actually, “Fallen Son” was the aftermath of his death. I believe he was killed in Captain America #25. I recall being pissed it was in the miniseries.

I was referencing the movie version. The Russo Brothers gave an excellent reason why he didn’t die in the movie.

matchkitJOHN

I want a new segment on the show. Seeing how Pants never wants to talk about trailers while he is in the room then I think they should have him go out to the hallway and turn off his mike and we have:

CGS Trailer Talk with Our Pants Off! :smiley: