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Episode 1704 Talkback - July 2018 Previews

Be-Bop-a-Lula, here comes Previews! We go through the July 2018 catalog for items shipping to stores beginning in September 2018. (2:01:36)

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  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    @wildpigcomics, yes! Mike did pencil many issues of Superman Adventures. He was a perfect choice, being a comic book artist and also a storyboarder for the cartoon. You may also remember Mike as the long-time artist and co-creator of Darkhawk, or as one of the Batman artists during the “Knightfall” Bat-event.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    Seconded on Beasts of Burden, @Adam_Murdough. One of my absolute favorites being produced today. Sad that Jill won’t be painting this one, but if I had to pick one artist to replace her, it would be Benjamin Dewey. He does great animals. Anyone not familiar with his Tragedy Series webcomic should google it right now. He also is the artist of Autumnlands, written by Kurt Busiek (another great series), which is kind of Kamandi-esque.
  • pookiepookie Posts: 8
    Just throwing it out there. Check out page 405, the book Pariah Missouri. it's 320 pages of watercolored occult goodness (evilness?) You order it and I'll personally send you the digital link too!
    Andres
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    That Nazi gorilla has to be Pryemaul, last seen (to my knowledge) in the fantastic “Doctor 13” backup series by Brian Azzarello and Cliff Chiang. Did I mention that Pryemaul is also a vampire?

    image
  • Dan_in_WIDan_in_WI Posts: 33
    I heard that Dark Horse's Mystery Science Theater 3000 caught your eye. I'm not sure from listening if you were aware that following a record setting 2016 Kickstarter (beating out Veronica Mars as the previous record holder in the entertainment category) the series was relaunched on Netflix in 2017 with creator Joel Hodgson at the helm and an all new cast on camera. A second Netflix season (12th overall) is forthcoming as well. This comic project was initially announced last year and it is now coming to fruition
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    Just wanted to point out one book that wasn’t mentioned in the episode. Fantagraphics is putting out a new translated collection of Mort Cinder. I'm pretty sure it’s been printed in America before, but I don’t think it’s ever been collected in English. Mort Cinder is not just a milestone of South American comics, but one of the classics of comics in general, written by Héctor Germán Oesterheld and drawn by Alberto Breccia—two of the greatest comic book creators ever.
  • aquatroyaquatroy Posts: 526
    SHAZAM!: THE MONSTER SOCIETY OF EVIL DELUXE EDITION HC
    Written by OTTO BINDER
    Art by C.C. BECK and PETE COSTANZA
    Cover by MICHAEL CHO
    At first he was simply a disembodied voice on the radio, taunting Captain Marvel with his ever-more-fiendish schemes to conquer the world. Then, readers gasped as Mr. Mind was revealed—all two inches of him! Was this lowly creature really the epitome of evil he claimed to be? Fortunately, Billy Batson understood the folly of underestimating someone based on their size! As small as he was, Mr. Mind was big trouble—especially once he turned the menacing members of his Monster Society of Evil loose to wreak havoc!
    This new title collects the entire 24-chapter serial from the Golden Age of Comics with new essays by Fawcett Comics expert P.C. Hamerlinck and film producer and comics historian Michael Uslan. Collects stories from CAPTAIN MARVEL ADVENTURES #22-46!
    ON SALE 02.06.19
    $49.99 US | 272 PAGES
    7.0625” x 10.875”
    FC | ISBN: 978-1-4012-8769-6

    Only two things could make this better.
    1 - Put Captain Marvel on the cover.
    2 - If Chip Kidd had a hand in the design.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    aquatroy said:

    2 - If Chip Kidd had a hand in the design.

    I don’t want Kidd anywhere near this book. I love most of his novel cover design work, but I’ve liked very little of his comic-related interior design.
  • aquatroyaquatroy Posts: 526
    OK. I have the "The Golden Age of the World's Mightiest Mortal" book and it's gorgeous!
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    aquatroy said:

    OK. I have the "The Golden Age of the World's Mightiest Mortal" book and it's gorgeous!

    My feeling is that a book designer should be like a baseball umpire, you shouldn’t really be noticed during the game (or in this case, during the reading of the book). A designer’s job is to bring clarity and readability to the subject of the book. Kidd’s designs often get too cluttered and flashy for my taste. He often distorts (see the Jack Cole book) or severely crops the comic book art for visual impact, but the result is that it takes away the context of the artwork. If you’re doing a book on Image or the early ’90s comic book industry that might be appropriate, but in general comics are a storytelling medium, and his interior design work doesn’t really reflect that. For me anyway. For some subjects (the sections of books he’s done on toys, for instance), it’s a fine approach, but for others—again, his Jack Cole book being a prime example—it distracts from the point of the book.

    Geoff Spears’ photography is very nice, and is really the heart of all of Kidd’s comic-related books. But there isn’t going to be any photography (at least not any new photography) in this book. There really shouldn’t be any room in this book for Kidd to “be Kidd”.
  • ChrisMurrinChrisMurrin Posts: 149
    Thanks for the shout out for Ghoul Scouts Volume 1! Volume 2 came out earlier this month, and Steve and Mark are already hard at work on Volume 3!
  • mphilmphil Posts: 369
    Excellent episode as always. The only thing on my order that (I don't think) wasn't mentioned is Moonshine Vol 2, by Brian Azzarello. If you haven't read the first trade, it's on DCBS as well. This book is a mix of gangsters, moonshiners, and some horror thrown in. A solid "buy" for me.
  • BionicDaveBionicDave Posts: 362
    Did I hear correctly - is Margaret Atwood writing a Canadian/ alt. universe Kavalier & Clay comic? Lol I tried to Duck it (the DuckDuckGo version of "Googling") but found nothing. This project would make sense if it's connected to Dark Horse, as Daniel Chabon is an editor there and his bro Michael wrote K&C...
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978

    Did I hear correctly - is Margaret Atwood writing a Canadian/ alt. universe Kavalier & Clay comic? Lol I tried to Duck it (the DuckDuckGo version of "Googling") but found nothing. This project would make sense if it's connected to Dark Horse, as Daniel Chabon is an editor there and his bro Michael wrote K&C...

    It's not tied in to Kavalier & Clay, it is merely Kavalier & Clay-esque in its plot. She grew up reading comics in the ’40s in Canada, so this is kind of a nod to that time. It is at Dark Horse though, where she’s already done a couple of other comic projects, and Chabon did edit her Angel Catbird series.
  • BionicDaveBionicDave Posts: 362
    Thanks for the info @nweathington, I'm definitely going to check this out :)
  • https://www.newsarama.com/40421-shazam-the-monster-society-of-evil-deluxe-edition-hc-captain-marvel.html

    There was an article on CBR stating this as well. Seems a shame seeing as there was a lot of enthusiasm for this book. Any ideas what the concerning content might have been?
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    Again?!? Why bother soliciting a second time years after the first cancellation if you aren't going to get an accurate temperature reading on whether or not it will fly? Yes, the depictions of blacks and Japanese characters are appalling, and I can certainly understand retailers not wanting to carry the book for fear of offending their customers, and for people being upset about the book in general. Just don’t tease me with a second solicitation!

    Okay, I'm half-joking about that. I'm only interested in having the book for the story’s historical significance, for the fun of the storytelling, and for the wonderful (if at times offensive) artwork. Easy for me to say, I know—I’m not black or Japanese. But I have a problem with any work of art, even one intended purely for entertainment, being for all intents and purposes censored. Art reflects society, and our society at the time was quite racist (to put it mildly). Hiding things like this story, in my opinion, makes it easier to forget (for those who don’t experience racial inequality) just how insensitive (or hateful) we were. And I don’t think that’s a good thing. Again, easy for me to say.

    The story is still out there. You can still read it. But you won’t get any context to go with your reading experience like you would have gotten with the book. And context is everything. Go to the link to read the first chapter and see for yourself.
  • mphilmphil Posts: 369
    😭 I was looking forward to this so much. I don't understand why they can't just put an intro that discusses the historical context.
  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    mphil said:

    😭 I was looking forward to this so much. I don't understand why they can't just put an intro that discusses the historical context.

    They had two essays lined up for that purpose, one by my friend and Fawcett expert, P.C. Hamerlinck, who actually knew C.C. Beck, the other by Michael Uslan.
  • mphilmphil Posts: 369
    Uh, hearing that makes me even more upset. I actually value those essays as much as the comic. I think they aren't understanding that people want this to learn about the *history* of the comic book medium.

    I mean, you can buy Mein Kampf on Amazon but you can't buy this comic book?

    I hope at the very least those essays will be released in some other form.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 173
    @mphil, I think the book might have come out if not for the fact that they now have a movie to sell and don't want to risk a single person going viral and targeting the movie for a takedown bc they found the images offensive. (I assume Disney wouldn't dare publish Mein Kampf.) IMO, context (historical or any other kind) seems to be increasingly irrelevant in our zero tolerance society once the right person gets offended. In just the past 12 months covers have been pulled for a Vampirella comic and Chaykin's Divided States of Hysteria.

    The Vampirella cover was a tribute to outrageous exploitation covers of the past (and featured a line that some people considered transphobic) and the Chaykin cover (of a lynched Muslim man) was an attempt by Chaykin to illustrate what he sees as a hatred for Muslims in this country. Some people were also calling for a boycott of Image because Chaykin had a scene illustrating an instance of transphobia towards a character who actually was a positive portrayal of transgenders. Someone on one of the comics websites actually condemned him for this because they were tired of seeing transgenders being abused as a story "trope". The character went on to do a lot of other things - including be a heroine - and the story was an indictment of how transgenders are treated in this country, but none of that matters.

    Chaykin could not be more liberal (or at least what liberal used to mean), but it doesn't matter. The feelings of one person with enough of a social media presence can get almost anything shut down anything these days. And I say this as a Puerto Rican who has felt deeply uncomfortable - or in today's vernacular, "offended" - watching parts of West Side Story, but never believed it should be pulled from public viewing. I really worry about how much worse things will get when "hate speech" is officially outlawed as it is in some European countries. At the rate things are going, I think it's inevitable.
  • So if I’m hearing you all right it all came down to racial depictions in the story?
    I agree with what you’re all saying-the story is a product of its time, essays explaining the historical context would probably assuage most of those feelings, people are too sensitive.
    If people can’t see or take a piece of art as a product of its time and that it might contain some anachronistic depictions then we really have gone too far.
    I think I’ve mentioned before that I grew up on The Phantom comics in Australia. Looking back now there are similar issues that have the possibility of causing offence (the depiction of the Japanese in The Phantom Goes to War is one example) but it is what it is and should be enjoyed as such. People need to not go out of their way to look for a reason to be offended.
  • BrackBrack Posts: 682
    edited August 8
    I used to have similar feelings that I now realise I was parroting from cartoon and comic dudes who'd parroted them from Ray Bradbury, I even bought the t-shirt. But then I watched the French Tex Avery DVDs and it turned out I wasn't missing all those racist jokes they'd cut out.

    I am now of the position that it's perfectly fine that companies consider people's feelings, or consider the potentially bad publicity for their upcoming movie, rather than allowing a tiny group of people to pay over the odds to enjoy some ancient racist, but historically important, but mainly racist, comics.

    Also it didn't help that a lot of dudes whose opinions on censorship I'd been parroting since a teenager turned out to be creeps, leading to the suspicion that their position was actually an excuse to keep on creepin' on.

    There's a lot of good non-racist comics out there I haven't read that I'm not going to lose my mind if a company doesn't want to sell me some 70 year old racist ones.

  • BionicDaveBionicDave Posts: 362
    I'm also disappointed by this Shazam book cancellation. Though, as @nweathington conceded of himself, I'm also neither black nor Japanese, so perhaps my perspective is less in tune. I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if the negative depictions were of Jews - as I do happen to be that - and I admit, it does give me some pause. This book isn't some academic-looking text meant to be opened for mere study; the truth is, this particular publication is, by its nature, very kid-friendly. It's colorful comic book stuff. I could easily see it being casually handed off to children even if DC included 20 warning essays at the front. I hate censorship, but seeing as how the offensive material is minimal... maybe DC could simply edit it? Or move it to the back of the book, with additional call-out editorial? Just seems like a crime to keep so much important and wonderful classic artwork away from the world simply because a tiny part of it is incendiary.
  • VertighostVertighost Posts: 173
    edited August 9
    Some good points, @BionicDave, especially about children. Speaking just for myself, as a Puerto Rican I can say I personally wouldn't be bothered by a reprinting of similar material featuring offensive caricatures of Latinos, but I understand others might feel differently.

    I am wondering if a possible solution to this would be to package these kinds of reprints in plastic and put a Mature Readers warning label - a "trigger warning" - on the cover that prominently reads something along the lines of "Reprints old material that may offend modern readers". The LCS could also be instructed not to sell it to minors. I don't know if this would be enough for the kinds of people who prefer that these books are never seen by anyone again, but it seems like it would do the trick of insuring that nobody accidentally gets offended by the material. The only people who would buy it would be adults who were interested in it.
  • DARDAR Posts: 973
    Pants mentioned the character the Black Bomber. Read up on him

    image
  • DARDAR Posts: 973
    Sorry I thought this was the Comic Talk thread.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,781
    edited August 12
    The regarding the Monster Society of Evil cancellation, I think it is a bummer that this book didn't come out (or come out much earlier, to keep it clear of the movie) for those who wanted it, especially as there were essays giving context ready to go, as @nweathington said.

    But I think that @BionicDave puts the concern well:

    ...This book isn't some academic-looking text meant to be opened for mere study; the truth is, this particular publication is, by its nature, very kid-friendly. It's colorful comic book stuff. I could easily see it being casually handed off to children even if DC included 20 warning essays at the front...

    And I agree. I think the problem, in DC being worried about the potential optics of the problematic material, is that they are not an academic press. What they publish won't be racked in the history or cultural studies section of the bookstore or the library. Particularly in a year with a Shazam movie, a book like this is likely to get featured with other Shazam/Captain Marvel things that are in print, say on a book store display, or in a library.

    And while I totally thing that readers, even young readers, probably *could* navigate historical material like that, especially with the help of essays or editorial notes giving context. At the end of the day, that is not the business that DC is in. They are not archivists or academics. And they never promised us they would make everything they own and possibly could reprint available. Rather, they are (like Marvel) first and foremost the publishing division of a larger character-based entertainment company. And if any concern about something problematic in a Shazam book (that, let's be honest, was going to be a specialty item for a niche audience) might confuse or distract from their giant investment in their giant product next April... well, I get why that niche item might lose out. At the end of the day, for a company that is going to be in the Shazam business next year, I can see that as a business decision. (Even if it is a bummer for those that wanted that book. It's too bad they didn't get it out 5 or 10 years ago, when there would likely have been less concern about being so protective of Shazam as a brand).

  • nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 5,978
    David_D said:

    The regarding the Monster Society of Evil cancellation, I think it is a bummer that this book didn't come out (or come out much earlier, to keep it clear of the movie) for those who wanted it, especially as there were essays giving context ready to go, as @nweathington said.

    But I think that @BionicDave puts the concern well:

    ...This book isn't some academic-looking text meant to be opened for mere study; the truth is, this particular publication is, by its nature, very kid-friendly. It's colorful comic book stuff. I could easily see it being casually handed off to children even if DC included 20 warning essays at the front...

    And I agree. I think the problem, in DC being worried about the potential optics of the problematic material, is that they are not an academic press. What they publish won't be racked in the history or cultural studies section of the bookstore or the library. Particularly in a year with a Shazam movie, a book like this is likely to get featured with other Shazam/Captain Marvel things that are in print, say on a book store display, or in a library.

    And while I totally thing that readers, even young readers, probably *could* navigate historical material like that, especially with the help of essays or editorial notes giving context. At the end of the day, that is not the business that DC is in. They are not archivists or academics. And they never promised us they would make everything they own and possibly could reprint available. Rather, they are (like Marvel) first and foremost the publishing division of a larger character-based entertainment company. And if any concern about something problematic in a Shazam book (that, let's be honest, was going to be a specialty item for a niche audience) might confuse or distract from their giant investment in their giant product next April... well, I get why that niche item might lose out. At the end of the day, for a company that is going to be in the Shazam business next year, I can see that as a business decision. (Even if it is a bummer for those that wanted that book. It's too bad they didn't get it out 5 or 10 years ago, when there would likely have been less concern about being so protective of Shazam as a brand).
    I don’t really disagree with any of that, or with what Dave said. I understand why they pulled the plug (again). I just don’t get why they resolicited in the first place without doing some serious market research (asking store owners, librarians, minority interest groups, etc., for their opinions). You think the first solicitation a few years ago would have taught them that lesson.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,781

    David_D said:

    The regarding the Monster Society of Evil cancellation, I think it is a bummer that this book didn't come out (or come out much earlier, to keep it clear of the movie) for those who wanted it, especially as there were essays giving context ready to go, as @nweathington said.

    But I think that @BionicDave puts the concern well:

    ...This book isn't some academic-looking text meant to be opened for mere study; the truth is, this particular publication is, by its nature, very kid-friendly. It's colorful comic book stuff. I could easily see it being casually handed off to children even if DC included 20 warning essays at the front...

    And I agree. I think the problem, in DC being worried about the potential optics of the problematic material, is that they are not an academic press. What they publish won't be racked in the history or cultural studies section of the bookstore or the library. Particularly in a year with a Shazam movie, a book like this is likely to get featured with other Shazam/Captain Marvel things that are in print, say on a book store display, or in a library.

    And while I totally thing that readers, even young readers, probably *could* navigate historical material like that, especially with the help of essays or editorial notes giving context. At the end of the day, that is not the business that DC is in. They are not archivists or academics. And they never promised us they would make everything they own and possibly could reprint available. Rather, they are (like Marvel) first and foremost the publishing division of a larger character-based entertainment company. And if any concern about something problematic in a Shazam book (that, let's be honest, was going to be a specialty item for a niche audience) might confuse or distract from their giant investment in their giant product next April... well, I get why that niche item might lose out. At the end of the day, for a company that is going to be in the Shazam business next year, I can see that as a business decision. (Even if it is a bummer for those that wanted that book. It's too bad they didn't get it out 5 or 10 years ago, when there would likely have been less concern about being so protective of Shazam as a brand).
    I don’t really disagree with any of that, or with what Dave said. I understand why they pulled the plug (again). I just don’t get why they resolicited in the first place without doing some serious market research (asking store owners, librarians, minority interest groups, etc., for their opinions). You think the first solicitation a few years ago would have taught them that lesson.
    Yes-- definitely the resolicitation (follow by the re-cancellation) is not a good look.
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