Netflix Daredevil Season 3 - Spoiler Talk Thread

matchkitJOHN

Starting this thread. If I remember the rules correctly please mention what episode you are at so folks can skip your post if they are not there yet.

matchkitJOHN

EPISODE 6

So far I have really been enjoying this season! The first fight between Bullseye and Matt was short and sweet and I look forward to their final confrontation. This has to be the most comic-booky of the three seasons so far. Nice origin of Bullseye. Loved how Kingpin has manipulated and plays the long game and he still probably has some aces up his sleeve.

Vertighost

EPISODE 2

@matchkitJOHN, I hope you're right and it gets better. Personally I find the season to be excruciatingly slowly paced. Worse than usual. And whenever Kingpin's not on screen it's extra slow. I also find the whole idea of Matt losing faith in his cause the absolutely laziest and most unoriginal way to give him a character arc. Gee, I wonder if he'll reach a crisis point where he realizes he's committed to his cause again? Can't they come up with something more creative?

Matt

Vertighost said:

EPISODE 2

@matchkitJOHN, I hope you're right and it gets better. Personally I find the season to be excruciatingly slowly paced. Worse than usual. And whenever Kingpin's not on screen it's extra slow. I also find the whole idea of Matt losing faith in his cause the absolutely laziest and most unoriginal way to give him a character arc. Gee, I wonder if he'll reach a crisis point where he realizes he's committed to his cause again? Can't they come up with something more creative?

What should they have done with Matt instead, while using the Born Again storyline as the basis for season 3?

Vertighost

EP 3 & part of 4

I've never read Born Again, but I'm sure this show is not being completely faithful to that or any storyline. Off the top of my head what they should do with the show (i.e. what I actually might enjoy) is radically compress it. If you're going to redo Born Again do it in 5 episodes. I'm very familiar with Miller's DD and this is a slog for me whereas Miller's comics were not.

The issue for me is not just Matt's character arc which is extremely cliched now (the heroes on the CW - particularly Supergirl and the Flash - go through this self pitying "I-suck" and "Everything-is-my-fault" routine almost weekly.). But the show could keep that and I could forgive it and enjoy the show anyway if not for the radical decompression, lack of story momentum and slooow pacing and the need to give the actors who play Karen and Foggy something to do for 13 episodes.

IMO the show repeats and tells the viewer what's already been established or is obvious and does it slowly. For example, I just watched episode 3 and it spent most of its time showing us that the cops don't like that Kingpin's out on a deal, Karen doesn't like it, Foggy doesn't like it, Matt doesn't like it, New Yorkers don't like it. Establishing everyone's perspective on Kingpin getting a deal is not interesting drama to me.

Then, in order to give the actors who play Karen and Foggy something to do: Karen's going to insist on being the main reporter on the story (the fact that she got a job as a journalist in the first place last season was ridiculous and that she isn't fired here for refusing to adhere to journalistic ethics just reinforces the ludicrousness. The show has never shown us what's so special about her writing or journalistic abilities that the editor prizes her so quickly), and Foggy's going to confront a politician about not doing more to get Kingpin behind bars.

Then in yet another eye-rolling turn to give Foggy an arc, the first part of episode 4 has Foggy's girlfriend convince him to run for office - specifically as a one-issue candidate. His issue? To get Kingpin behind official prison bars again. The purpose of this? To keep Foggy safer from Kingpin. Logic has left the building here. I am terrified that an incarcerated incredibly powerful crime boss (who can easily hire killers to do his dirty work for him since he's in custody) will kill me for bothering him in the past. So my solution is that I am going to run for public office (even though I don't believe I have a chance in hell of winning) just so.... I can spend all my time on the campaign trail antagonizing him further? I dont' believe I'll win and then, so, best case scenario, I get him back behind bars and then.... I'm safe b/c I ran for public office?

This is the kind of ridiculous contrivance a comic book (or superhero tv show) can get away with only when the reader/viewer doesn't mind because everything else is entertaining/fun. IMO this is just a slog. I'm just hoping that Elektra returns or another hero enters at this point. The only thing that made Season 2 the only somewhat watchable season of DD for me was the presence of Elektra and The Punisher.

Matt

Vertighost said:

EP 3 & part of 4

I've never read Born Again, but I'm sure this show is not being completely faithful to that or any storyline. Off the top of my head what they should do with the show (i.e. what I actually might enjoy) is radically compress it. If you're going to redo Born Again do it in 5 episodes. I'm very familiar with Miller's DD and this is a slog for me whereas Miller's comics were not.

The issue for me is not just Matt's character arc which is extremely cliched now (the heroes on the CW - particularly Supergirl and the Flash - go through this self pitying "I-suck" and "Everything-is-my-fault" routine almost weekly.). But the show could keep that and I could forgive it and enjoy the show anyway if not for the radical decompression, lack of story momentum and slooow pacing and the need to give the actors who play Karen and Foggy something to do for 13 episodes.

IMO the show repeats and tells the viewer what's already been established or is obvious and does it slowly. For example, I just watched episode 3 and it spent most of its time showing us that the cops don't like that Kingpin's out on a deal, Karen doesn't like it, Foggy doesn't like it, Matt doesn't like it, New Yorkers don't like it. Establishing everyone's perspective on Kingpin getting a deal is not interesting drama to me.

Then, in order to give the actors who play Karen and Foggy something to do: Karen's going to insist on being the main reporter on the story (the fact that she got a job as a journalist in the first place last season was ridiculous and that she isn't fired here for refusing to adhere to journalistic ethics just reinforces the ludicrousness. The show has never shown us what's so special about her writing or journalistic abilities that the editor prizes her so quickly), and Foggy's going to confront a politician about not doing more to get Kingpin behind bars.

Then in yet another eye-rolling turn to give Foggy an arc, the first part of episode 4 has Foggy's girlfriend convince him to run for office - specifically as a one-issue candidate. His issue? To get Kingpin behind official prison bars again. The purpose of this? To keep Foggy safer from Kingpin. Logic has left the building here. I am terrified that an incarcerated incredibly powerful crime boss (who can easily hire killers to do his dirty work for him since he's in custody) will kill me for bothering him in the past. So my solution is that I am going to run for public office (even though I don't believe I have a chance in hell of winning) just so.... I can spend all my time on the campaign trail antagonizing him further? I dont' believe I'll win and then, so, best case scenario, I get him back behind bars and then.... I'm safe b/c I ran for public office?

This is the kind of ridiculous contrivance a comic book (or superhero tv show) can get away with only when the reader/viewer doesn't mind because everything else is entertaining/fun. IMO this is just a slog. I'm just hoping that Elektra returns or another hero enters at this point. The only thing that made Season 2 the only somewhat watchable season of DD for me was the presence of Elektra and The Punisher.

You’re focusing on the foreground. There’s stuff in the background that get revealed later in the season. I’d almost go so far as to say this season is co-focused on Matt & Fisk.

So, if I’m understanding you, you’d be okay with the tropes if it was compressed to 5 episodes? You’ve only had one low point in your life where you’ve doubted yourself? Color me green.

Vertighost

Well it needn't be shrunk to 5 episodes for me to find it ok. You had asked what else they could have done while still keeping the Born Again character arc. But I'd be fine with a 24 episode season if I found the rest of the story compelling/entertaining and didn't constantly feel like they were stretching out the little bit of interesting material they do have.

jaydee74

I thought this was about as perfect as it could get. From the very first episode to the end, I was just smiling. All the actors really brought their A Game to this season and it was just breathtaking and heartbreaking and just fun to watch. It makes it all the more frustrating that Netflix cancelled it.

Vertighost

I thought episodes 4 and 5 were a huge improvement. Matt seems to have thankfully dropped the self pity and has a goal and direction. The jail break was really well done and the runaway car was a great surprise climax. It makes sense how Kingpin learns the truth about Matt and the scenes with him learning about Bullseye were staged in a new and interesting way.

I'm curious to see how this much more stable and seemingly well-intentioned Bullseye is handled.

Mihawk

Hope Netflix plan is to try and sell back these shows early to Disney, and then they decide to put the shows on Hulu, so at least they can keep their darker tones. And if can at least get back Chairle Cox, Vincent D'onofrio, and Jon Bernthal I'd be happy.