Batman/Scott Snyder Rant *Spoilers*

Zhurrie

OK, so I just finished Batman #10 and the crushing let-down of the completely transparent writing and "reveal." Maybe because I devoured Encyclopedia Brown books as a child and Sherlock Holmes, and others as I got older and now as an adult... maybe because I read a lot of novels and truly great writing... who knows, but Scott Snyder does absolutely nothing for me. He is a formulaic and purely academic writer with no heart and soul in his work. It is like seeing a competent by-the-numbers magician, it can be fun and mildly engaging but it just leaves you wishing for more and better quality which you know is possible and out there. He really lost a lot of my respect with Severed which he sold out in the final issue to open the door for a continuation since sales were strong, but in a completely implausible and tacked-on fashion.

His Court of Owls story has been taken and ran with by DC to boost poor selling periphery books, to a new Talon book and it has to be one of the weakest, least impactful stories I've ever read. I have a hard time believing that anyone didn't see the big "reveal" of Lincoln March from a couple issues in for any number of reasons. Without any other threads or plotlines or twists it plodded on to the reveal. That would have been bad enough, but the even more asinine rationale and reasoning Snyder used to get there was insultingly bad. Sure, no one ever noticed that pin on the mother in the *massive* portrait that hangs prominently... yeah. OK. Any of it really there are so many holes and flaws with the story it is just pitiful. It's insulting, really.

I get that Snyder might seem flashy or fun to some and he is no doubt the darling of the comic world right now so I know these comments might not be met with much agreement, but I have to believe I'm not alone here. I seriously hope so at least. I'm OK with disagreement but please offer some reasoning or insight as to why. Also, keep in mind both Severed and Batman have kept me mostly positive until near the end or at the end as has a lot of his work. I'm not saying he is without talent, but I am saying that he is young and his writing has some flaws and weak points that just continually get given a pass because he is good *enough* at sleight of hand to distract from it with shiny baubles and misdirection. I wanted such an obvious conclusion to just be a red herring or to contain a great twist, I wanted this to be an addition to my top Batman shelf... sadly, along with Severed, it will probably get sold off as a complete chunk and forgotten.

BlackUmbrella

I expect $1.99 worth of entertainment from my comics (which is why I hate paying $2.99 or $3.99)*. If I get more than that, I'm happy. With this title, I can't imagine not picking up these issues.

I've been glad to see some real atmosphere back in the Batman title, and I feel like the story has been engaging. The action has been good, and I like this take on the character. Capullo's art is wonderful. As far as holes in the plot, it's awesome when things are airtight, but the reality is that most decent films, books, and ESPECIALLY comics do not meet that standard.

Batman books are rarely better than this run, and they are generally much worse. I could see being less impressed by it than most, but to totally rip on it doesn't make sense to me. Very few monthlies are this good.

Edit: *Incidentally, this is the only New 52 book I buy on the day it's released.

davidtobin100

Some interesting points there @Zhurrie. I also felt that the run took a bit of a drop in quality this issue due to the obvious reveal (which harkened back to Tommy Elliott in Hush) and the "crazy relation" (already used by Snyder in Black Mirror).

I wouldn't be quite so harsh on so much of the writers work as you. American Vampire is one of the best things coming from Vertigo at the moment, and Black Mirror is destined to go down as one of the defining Batman tales of this era. I think hammering him on one poor issue might be a little much, especially seeing as he has another issue to go to wrap up his story. I'm crossing my fingers that he can right the ship next month.

Zhurrie

To be clear, I thought I had been initially since I repeated it, I am not bashing him or even being harsh, I'm being realistic and honest as far as what I have read and experienced. Black Mirror is OK, again I enjoyed it enough but it isn't on my Batman shelf.

I've mentioned it before but there are tons of OK to even good Batman stories, there are very few excellent ones. I love excellent ones, I really had hoped against hope that this was going to be one of them and there were so many options to make it so but in the end the reality was that it was about as straightforward as one could get. That doesn't mean the world he built around it or the details or parts weren't great, there were some but the best parts feel rushed like a miniseries needing to cram in all the good stuff in X number of issues. Like the Bat-armor, it was rushed in and right back out again just to set up for the next issue where Talon obviously has his suit on. But you didn't get to enjoy the suits they were just plopped in abruptly to make sure all the points were hit rather than to let it breathe and have some soul and impact.

That is actually more my gripe in this case. From issue #1 where you couldn't even tell the two apart because they were so similar in the art there was a bit too much of a nod. I don't expect every story to be airtight to be enjoyable, many are not and I'm OK with that. But take the pin in this issue, instead of it being right there on display and a well-known symbol for a parent with a kid there, why not have Bruce find an old photo or something a bit more discreet that is the tell? That's what I'm saying here. The stories seem more exciting and full of intrigue than they really do. IMO it is because he is very formulaic and academic, when you hear of him talk about writing he mentions this a lot even. He is young, he has very clear and defined tricks up his sleeve and safe fall-backs and devices, I don't doubt he will grow in his craft in time but he is a bit too inflated for his own good right now. If this had been an Encyclopedia Brown case when I was 12 I wouldn't have had to flip to the back of the book for help.

BlackUmbrella

From issue #1 where you couldn't even tell the two apart because they were so similar in the art there was a bit too much of a nod.

I was actually very relieved about this being settled, as my fear when I read that first issue was that Capullo just sucked at coming up with characters. ;P

Zhurrie

@BlackUmbrella :)

DoctorDoom

I have to say, that while I'm a bit behind, and don't dislike the book so far....

I just don't see what everyone else does (regarding the high praise for this book). It hasn't blown me away, really.

I do like the art, though.

Zhurrie

I did forget to mention that I have mostly loved the art, I have nothing bad to say for Capullo ever. There was one issue with fairly weak/rushed looking art in this run but for all of the great art he did pump out here, I can't complain one bit. It has been exceptional.

random73

I havn't read issue #10 yet (comes in my DCBS box tomorrow) but otherwise I'm caught up with this series. First time I've collected Batman regularly since, well...ever. I thought issue #5 was a brilliant example of what comics as a medium can do, that you can't get in film, or novels. Batman was lost and confused and didn't know anymore if he was coming or going. And I as a reader felt confusion. It was one of the few times as an adult I felt like a comic writer/artist team showed me something new. So, I have some feelings of general goodwill toward Scott Snyder for making comics feel fresh again. As far as "paint by numbers" goes, I know what you mean, I think, because that's how I felt about those Dan Brown Davinici Code books that were so popular a couple years ago. They were meticulously plotted but had no soul. Stephen King describes writing as "archeology". So, I understand not likening things that are "formulaic". Or "cookie cutter". But all told, I think it has been a good series. Snyder introduced a neat new villan to the batman mythos (and realize this universe is populated with likes of Crazy Quilt so that is something) expanded Gotham City, 13th floor (come on! That was fun) as for the massive portrait, well, there is something to be said for hiding in plain sight. I remember reading Gaiman's Neverwhere for the first time and thinking, "this is a comic guy getting used to a new medium". I thought, Stardust was a little better and American Gods was brilliant (and Anastazi Boys was a paycheck). So, this a long ramble to say, I get your beef, but the kid is doing good work, cut him some slack and see where he goes.

LibraryBoy

I liked it a lot at first, but I was ready for this storyline to be over with around issue 6, not expanded into a gigantic crossover. The longer it went, the more familiar it seemed, and the more my interest waned. We've seen the "new villain and/or villainous army runs roughshod over Gotham, challenging Batman's authority" story before, just as we've also seen "newly created character with close ties to Bruce ends up being the villain." Even if it turns out that stuff like Hush, Knightfall, or the conclusion to the Goodwin/Simonson Manhunter didn't occur in the DCnU, they still occurred in the Batman comic books, and continuity doesn't supplant real world memory, much as the companies sometimes seem to think otherwise.

And it's even more noticeable to me since, with the return of Batman Inc., we now have Batman fighting two different villainous armies. It's all just a bit much right now. As a result, I'm getting Batman Inc. and have dropped unincorporated Batman. I loved the first run of Batman Inc and the new series looks to be picking up in much the same manner, I don't want to see a story I was ready to have end get expanded, and the additional Owls content in Batman doesn't justify the price increase at all IMO.

There have been some great moments in the Batman book (the Batcycle on the El Train, for instance) and some that made me groan (Dick, you're a sleeper agent for the DEATH CIRCUS OF DEADLY DOOM!!!!). If other people are enjoying it right now, that's great, but it's not really my bag right now. It might swing back around in the future, and that's great if it does, but for me right now, it's Dropsville.

dubbat138

Read the newest issue of Batman and it feels like Snyder pulled a "Hush" on this storyline. And I hated "Hush".

SigurdJarlson

I've really enjoyed it, my only complaint is that it's taken a year to complete. I would like to see shorter arcs, but a longer arc isn't too bad now and then.

TrustyMutsi

This book got me back into collecting a monthly book. I haven't enjoyed a comic this much since JMS's Amazing Spider-Man (which got me back into comics).

I love the little touches he adds to Bruce, like him fiddling with Joe Chill's shell casings, his and Dick's back-and-forth... I feel like this is a David Fincher version of Batman, especially part with the sequential picture frames in the underground maze...

I'm sorry you're not enjoying it, but I can't rave enough about this book.

Zhurrie

I never said I wasn't enjoying it, I love a lot about it except for the terrible and anti-climactic and weak reveal and what I can only assume is the ending with the armor suits. I think it is just given a lot of passes and Snyder tends to get a lot of them with things and to be honest it was pretty straight-forward and paint by numbers and even similar to other works. That was my gripe here.

John_Steed

it's Snyder's 15 minutes.... <:-P

fxmatt

I didn't think the reveal was weak or anticlimactic. It totally took me by surprise and in my opinion was a powerful punch! I think years from now people will look back at this story as key in the evolving Batman myths. At least if they don't retcon it in two years.

Matt

This book got me back into collecting a monthly book. I haven't enjoyed a comic this much since JMS's Amazing Spider-Man (which got me back into comics).

I love the little touches he adds to Bruce, like him fiddling with Joe Chill's shell casings, his and Dick's back-and-forth... I feel like this is a David Fincher version of Batman, especially part with the sequential picture frames in the underground maze...

I'm sorry you're not enjoying it, but I can't rave enough about this book.

To each his own, I just had to chuckle when I saw you reference JMS' Spider-man. Mostly because I think the whole Spider totem was ridiculous and an unnecessary add-on to Pete's origin.

JMS did have some interesting stories, that's just something I always associate with his Spidey run.

Sometime I think writers try too much to add onto great origins. If you try to tighten a screw too much you wind up snapping its head.

M

random73

Just got to read #10. Loved the art. Well put together quality issue. But the reveal is so trite that there is no making it compelling. I didn't mind the clue in the painting. And the storytelling Is done well but trite is trite. (Wait! Spiderman/Punisher/Batman/nightwing/etc. became a vigilante because his parent/wife/kids/girlfriend/etc. was killed by bad guys. ). So, although you can't polish a turd you can roll it in glitter. And this a a turd wrapped in glitter a really nice execution of a fundamentally flawed concept.

Zhurrie

OK so after reading #11 I can firmly say I will never read another Scott Snyder book. This "finale" was a complete flop and a true mess in almost every regard. This had some of the worst sequential storytelling I can recall (aside from Forgotten Realms). Just a muddled mess of art and layouts and massive stretches of the reader's ability to suspend all sense of reality or even common sense. What makes it all so crushing is that up until issue #10 it was the exact opposite of that, it had amazing art and sequential storytelling and really drew people in... then it just went entirely off the rails. There are almost too many specific examples to mention. The one that really bugged the hell out of me was when Batman falls from 10,000 feet and uses his "high velocity batrope" and crashes into the tower, Talon is there magically. So he somehow got blown up, flew down to the ground floor of the tower, took the elevator or steps up to precisely the floor and room that Batman crashes through... yeah, no. This was a complete and utter mess and one of the lamest endings to a run that had me entirely enjoying it up until #10 and #11. What a joke.

KaptainSequential

@-)

fredzilla

So, although you can't polish a turd you can roll it in glitter. And this a a turd wrapped in glitter a really nice execution of a fundamentally flawed concept.

Correction ;) :
http://youtu.be/yiJ9fy1qSFI

BTW - issue 10 was totally cliche and I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing yet, but I'm still digging Batman and I think Snyder's run has over all been good.

random73

I stand corrected! :-?