Competition or community?

random73

So, I recently had a brief twitter conversation with a couple of local professional artists that I found rather surprising.

I'm a big fan of Mark Waid's digital comics site Thrillbent and I check it religiously every Wednesday. Yesterday ( 6/27/12 ) Waid posted a fan art contest to promote the site going into SDCC. Now, I personally have the artistic ability of a developmentally disabled chimp but I thought it would be cool as hell to see some local pros throw in some support. I tweeted the link to some local guys encouraging them to "Support the Waid!".

The response was pretty universally: i'd rather i work on/ or have people support my own stuff because as far as digial comics go we are all competition right now, and that is good!

The responses were all very friendly and polite and I am in no way disparaging anybody here, because I like all these guys. But I was surprised (and probably naive about how the industry works). I thought that as a shrinking industry going into the 21st century that we would all live or die together as a community and would want to support each other.

I personally just want to see all the creators I like working with other creators I like.

So that was a long set up to get to the discussion question...

Digital comics sites like Thrillbent or Four Star. Competition or Community?

Trev

Yes.

steve_bryant

As one of the people who was involved in the Twitter discussion, I want to clarify that don't feel that I'm in competition with anyone else.

But I do feel like every potential project is in competition for my time.

As a human being with a limited number of hours in my day, I have to make conscious choices about what to spend my time working on. Since my thumbnails for the zero issue of Steed and Mrs Peel were approved 2 weeks ago, I've been working on it every day for 12-18 hours a day—no weekends. I'm told that the next issue will arrive sooner and I'll have a longer deadline.

That said, I can't do everything that I want to do. I've already had to cut back my ComicTwart contributions. I still have 3 commissioned pieces waiting for me. And I have an obligation to my Kickstarter supporters, Sequential Pulp and Dark Horse to produce Athena Voltaire. On top of that. I have an amazing 11 year-old son who's the most important thing in my life, and am almost 2 years into my first post-divorce relationship.

With everything on my plate, I can't justify the 8–10 hours it would take to produce a drawing to enter in the Insufferable fan art contest. I don't find this to be an unreasonable stance, just as I don't expect Mark Waid to enter an Athena Voltaire fan writing contest. And I think if you asked Mark if he'd like to contribute something to Four Star Studios' Double Feature, he'd probably say that he's busy building Thrillbent.

If I'm building a house, and I have a number of friends and peers who are building their own houses at the same time, I don't expect them to drop what they're doing and volunteer to work on mine.

That said, I have contributed to many of the peers that you tweeted. I did an Athena Voltaire story for Double Feature, and my last two choices at ComicTwart were Hack/Slash and BattlePug. That Cassie Hack Twart piece ran as a pin-up in the most recent Hack/Slash trade paperback. I'm currently drawing The Corpse, a back-up feature running in Hack/Slash, and am writing Undead or Alive, a back-up that will be running in Hoax Hunters starting in January. I singled out BattlePug as one of the Dark Horse books I'm most excited to be among in my Athena Voltaire Dark Horse press release, and voted for BattlePug as Best Web Comic on my last Eisner Award ballot. Mike and Tim were both instrumental in my developing my most recent Athena Voltaire pitch, and both are on board to contribute covers/pin-ups for me, as well.

I think all of the above adds up nicely to a sense of community. :) And it doesn't begin to cover what I'm working on with my friend and frequent convention boothmate, Jim Heffron, or the projects I have going with my buddies JunBob Kim, Erik Roman, and Mark Stegbauer.

Additionally, as a professional, it's hard to justify entering contests. If a friend or peer asks me to contribute a cover, pin-up, or quote for their book, I don't turn them down.

I'm very much looking forward to meeting Mark face-to-face at SDCC next month, and would love to talk about Steed and Mrs. Peel, Thrillbent, webcomics, creator-ownership, and the changing comics market. I plan to send him home with a couple of Athena Voltaire trade paperbacks, and hope to cultivate a professional relationship with him.

I'm sorry if you took exception to the way your initial tweet was answered. Sometimes, it takes more than 140 characters to adequately address a question. If the way that they've dealt with me is any indication of how they work with anyone else, I can't think of a group of guys more supportive of the comic community than Four Star Studios.

random73

No, no, not at all Steve, everybody was more than gracious in their responses and honestly I appreciate anybody responding at all!

The discussion was really larger than could be appropriately discussed via twitter so I thought it would be interesting to post here.

I'm curious about the different digital formats out there. Four star is using a .99 price point for comics and Thrillbent is posting free comics to build an advertising model and demonstrate hits to the site. I suspect, and this is just my opinion, that the advertising model will have more legs on the long run.

I would love to see new Athena Voltaire stuff up in the Thrillbent site every week. Hell yeah I want you to have time to work on your own stuff! I love your stuff and if I could loan four hours out of my day so you could have a 28 hour day I would. And of course, family comes first, as it should.

random73

Oh yeah, I didn't think about you guys being pros entering a fan art contest. That would actually be taking away some joy from the fans. Like I said though, I just want all the creators I like to work with other creators and I had visions of awesome pin ups and sketches dancing in my head like sugarplum faireys.

Zhurrie

As an artist, I'd never do it. Ever. Art is partially about image and perceived value but it is also about passion and very personal emotions and rawness... sometimes way more than any viewer could know and sometimes with pieces that wouldn't even seem so. Time and inspiration can't be forced to end up with a great result. It isn't even about competition but it is about a lot of the very real and present issues in art. So many people are willing to do stuff on "spec" (free) or super devalue themselves for a contest or other potential exposure, it is actually a very bad thing for all artists. It is also partly demeaning like making a chimp dance for a peanut. If I were running a contest and asked Mark Waid to draw something on his own time for it I doubt he would, or any known artist. Oh, and also usually rights and ownership come into play with these things which is another can of worms. I am always disappointed in any known artist that then resorts to these kinds of things because they know full well they wouldn't do them and it isn't the right way to spotlight or highlight new talent. If that is what they want to do then they should promote and help some artists that they really are into the work of and champion them and bring them up in the game or use their pull to establish them. This is certainly nowhere near the first millionth time this kind of thing has been brought up and it will always end in three camps, the fan that just genuinely sees it as "fun", the eager/naive/young talent that wants to prove them-self and get exposure no matter what, and the artists that will balk at the entire thing and never even for a second think to participate.

Pinups and sketches of other people's worlds/characters etc. are awesome but there is usually a pretty common denominator that those doing the work are all friends or associates or have some connection with each other on a personal or professional level like a group of artists that work in a particular style or movement. That is actually how it should be for both sides of the coin anyhow, the original creator should care how his/her creations are handled and the artist should have some connection or love of both the original artist and material. Not just I'm going to draw this other dude's stuff to get noticed.

Fan art/contests/etc. are basically fostering spec work and undervalue artists and art itself, they should not be done and artists should really know better than to do them unless they are prepared to do them with such seriousness and with real value to anyone participating (I'm talking to the point that the artist them-self would even participate if it were someone else's contest).

random73

See? I am revealing my ignorance. As a non artist fan boy I just thought, "Fun!".

I would never have considered it was work for free or devaluing anyone's art. Of course, that's because I don't do it for a living. I'm learning stuff. Neat.

Zhurrie

Yeah, it is one of those things that I actually never expect people to think of but what Steve and myself have mentioned is the reality. Art is a big world and a really interesting one from so many angles and perspectives. It is very easy for an outside observer to hear someone say something like Steve or myself did and take offense or see them as some stuck up prima-donna type when that isn't even close to the real reason. I'm glad you were open to the reasoning and rationale.

random73

Heck yeah, you weren't condecending or rude just sharing information. I'm thrilled to learn new stuff or hear other points of view. I get tetchy when my POV is devalued but you didn't do that at all.

BrianBaer

God, I love this forum. Every time a fight doesn't break out, an angel gets its wings.