Episode 1248 Talkback: Before Watchmen
Pants
Posts: 567
'Before Watchmen' has arrived. We take a Buy/Borrow/Pants look at the first month of books - 'Minutemen', 'Silk Spectre', 'Comedian' and 'Nite Owl'. (57:43)
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Comments
Matthew
The difference here seems to be that Alan Moore isn't involved. You could look at these as fan fiction essentially or maybe the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
I don't really understand Mike's issue with the Amanda Conner art. I don't think that just because they use a 9 panel grid that you then have to ape the entire style of the Watchmen art. My approach would probably be to try something completely different. I would probably try to stay as far away from the original style of Watchmen and try something new...why not, people are skeptical about these books anyway.
Minutemen and Silk Spectre were the only two I was considering buying, but when I filled out my DCBService order there were books I wanted more than those, and it takes more than morbid curiosity to get my ducats these days.
I checked out both on the stands, though. So pretty, both of them. I really like both Cooke and Conner on art. In the end, neither book made it home with me, but I may end up grabbing some of the Silk Spectre's simply for the covers. A few of Conner's covers are just demanding to be framed!
Speaking of her, I disagree with Mike's assessment of Conner, but he makes some great points defending his opinion, and providing a nice insight into one artist's views on structure. Well spoken dissent has a place, and that's what I think we heard here.
Oh, I may go back and check out Nite Owl. The Geeks' review suggests I should at least give it a flip-through...
avclub.com/articles/before-watchmen-gets-a-progress-report-and-batman,82191/
J. Michael Straczynski has written good comics in the past, but his writing has taken a steep decline in recent years after ill-conceived stories in The Amazing Spider-Man and Superman. Neither of those titles touches Before Watchmen: Nite Owl #1 (DC), a repugnant book that is an offense to Alan Moore’s work. The overwrought dialogue, the winking references to “TVs that will fit in our pockets,” the gratuitous attempts to make the book “mature”—it all works against the storytelling principles of Watchmen. The “no free lunch” theme of the issue could have been ripped from a seventh-grade creative-writing assignment, and even worse, Straczynski’s plot developments actually diminish Dan Dreiberg’s character.
Of all the Before Watchmen titles, Nite Owl is the one to skip. Straczynski’s idea of fleshing out Dan Dreiberg’s character is giving him an abusive dad who makes his wife beg for him to beat her. The relationship between Dan and (Nite Owl I) Hollis Mason was a major source of heart in Watchmen, but their first meeting is cut short so that the plot can get back to Evil Daddy and his leather belt. Dan comes home from the meeting to find all his Nite Owl memorabilia burned in the backyard, and when his father has a heart attack, he decides to sit in silence with his mother and let him die. Straczynski is trying to turn Nite Owl into Rorschach, and it just doesn’t gel with everything that has been previously established about the character.
It’s unfortunate that Rorschach’s first Before Watchmen appearance is scripted by Straczynski, who writes him as a caricature of Moore’s character. The abuse of Rorschach’s “hurm” for comedic purposes is disgraceful, especially when it happens six times in one issue. Subtlety is lost on Straczynski, who feels the need to have Nite Owl talk about his creeping sense that Silk Spectre and he are meant to be together, a sentiment that’s expressed much more gracefully in a four-panel sequence of Nite Owl watching Dr. Manhattan and Silk Spectre flirt. The closing lines of the issue have a Saturday-morning-cartoon feel, which is the last thing that should be said about anything associated with Watchmen. It’s a shame the story is so rough, because the art team of Andy and Joe Kubert is phenomenal, with Joe’s inks bringing a layer of grit to the story that the writing fails to capture.
chris
the comedian was pretty good too (did Azzarello kill Marilyn or JFK in one of his 100 bullets issues? seems like he did kill one of them) the talk about it feeling like it stopped I was thinking that that's how everyone was when they found out he'd been shot (at least how my mom and grandmother explained it that everyone just stopped whatever they were doing)
I didn't like minutemen, i agreed with Jamie that it was just the excerpts being made into a comic but it has potential
and i haven't read nite owl just yet so i'll be stopping the podcast till i'm finished
chris
The spirit of the book was carried through the other three for me. Not silk spectre.
Taken that Cooke gave her the same layout as he took on shows how one is a master of the craft, which is needed for this, and one is not.
Minutemen: weak buy
Silk Spectre: buy
Comedian: buy
Nite Owl: buy
Notice: no strong buys yet! I hope to get at least a few further down the road. Anyway, I liked Amanda Conner's art. I think she was focusing on the idea that Laurel Jane is a teenager, so that's why you had the sort of Archie-looking art and even the SUPER-cartoony panel of what she is thinking about in some of the last panels of the grid. I'm also guessing that's why she was chosen for the assignment in the first place (her ability to go cartoon-y). Sooo, I think she used the grid well for her assignment. Though Mike seems to have a certain conceit about the use of the grid, I think there is room for experimentation and there probably aren't just a few ways to do it!
Well, I'm looking forward to reading more in the single issues because I liked Len Wein's comments about the series in that Bleeding Cool #0. Besides, if I wait for the trades I probably wouldn't buy it. I'm just not that organized...
Gonna say of the 4 (Minutemen, Silk Spectre, Comedian, Nite Owl) Silk Spectre is the one head and shoulders above the rest. Great Art, Great story. I closed the book thinking Conner needs to be on a top of the line book immediately! Kubert's art was also strong in Nite Owl, but the story was just so-so (at best).