I do find it interesting the people who commented the most about liking the Ultimate Edition also liked the theatrical version. Was there any chance they were going to like it less?
@Mr_Cosmic Oddly enough, I hated Man of Steel yet really liked Batman v Superman. Indeed, the films were laid out differently for me by the press. I saw MoS excited for its good reviews, then felt really let down by what I'd watched... and I saw BvS fearing its awful reviews, then felt really surprised by how much I enjoyed it.
Also at play is that I could watch BvS while distancing myself from the two aspects of MoS which disturbed me the most: Pa Kent's advice to his son about hiding from society at whatever the cost; and Superman snapping Zod's neck at the end. Yes, Pa Kent "appears" in BvS, but it's just for a moment, and he's talking about letting a bunch of horses die instead of innocent schoolchildren (an improvement!). And as for killing Zod? Somehow not seeing it in BvS - having it be this haunting spectre from the past - made it easier for me to pretend it was a "you had to be there moment." That maybe it happened differently than what I saw/remembered. In BvS, I can chalk up Batman's (and society's) fear and dread about Superman to the general mass destruction caused by taking down Zod and Faora at the end of MoS. I didn't have to dwell on the specific idea that Superman murdered his first adversary.
Truthfully, I walked out of BvS feeling so happy and relieved, that I decided to give MoS another shot! It was playing on FX that weekend, so I recorded it and watched. And you know what? I began to appreciate it much more. I enjoyed it way more than I did in 2013! Until about the 37 minute mark - when Pa Kent tells Clark to let kids die - at which point I got furious again and shut the movie off. Oh well, I tried! :joy: :joy: :joy:
I do find it interesting the people who commented the most about liking the Ultimate Edition also liked the theatrical version. Was there any chance they were going to like it less?
M
To be fair, I think the only people seeing the Ultimate Edition at this point are those buying a digital copy (I don't think it is for rent yet). So the only people that are invested enough to pay the $20 are those that are already on board.
We might get more a variety of comparisons if and when the Ultimate Edition is available for rent, or if it ever streams through a Netflix or Amazon or something. That is a lower bar of entry for those that weren't as hot on BVS but liked it enough to give a longer cut a look.
@Mr_Cosmic Oddly enough, I hated Man of Steel yet really liked Batman v Superman. Indeed, the films were laid out differently for me by the press. I saw MoS excited for its good reviews, then felt really let down by what I'd watched... and I saw BvS fearing its awful reviews, then felt really surprised by how much I enjoyed it.
Also at play is that I could watch BvS while distancing myself from the two aspects of MoS which disturbed me the most: Pa Kent's advice to his son about hiding from society at whatever the cost; and Superman snapping Zod's neck at the end. Yes, Pa Kent "appears" in BvS, but it's just for a moment, and he's talking about letting a bunch of horses die instead of innocent schoolchildren (an improvement!). And as for killing Zod? Somehow not seeing it in BvS - having it be this haunting spectre from the past - made it easier for me to pretend it was a "you had to be there moment." That maybe it happened differently than what I saw/remembered. In BvS, I can chalk up Batman's (and society's) fear and dread about Superman to the general mass destruction caused by taking down Zod and Faora at the end of MoS. I didn't have to dwell on the specific idea that Superman murdered his first adversary.
Truthfully, I walked out of BvS feeling so happy and relieved, that I decided to give MoS another shot! It was playing on FX that weekend, so I recorded it and watched. And you know what? I began to appreciate it much more. I enjoyed it way more than I did in 2013! Until about the 37 minute mark - when Pa Kent tells Clark to let kids die - at which point I got furious again and shut the movie off. Oh well, I tried! :joy: :joy: :joy:
Kent didn't murder Zod; it was manslaughter.
Pa really didn't tell Kent to let kids die. He stated he didn't know (what to do), making him more honest (for my tastes). It was a good way to teach his son not to make knee jerk reactions, but think about the cause & effects of his actions.
@Matt - murder, manslaughter.. My point is, Superman intentionally killed his enemy, and that still nauseates me. I've heard the arguments as to why it shouldn't, and none have changed my mind. I respect the opinions of those who disagree. But that's my opinion.
As for the Pa Kent scene in MoS, here is my problem with it: when a young boy is deeply anguished and looks to his dad, and asks if he should let innocent children die merely to keep *someone* from *possibly* seeing that the boy is different? And the dad replies "maybe" - and backs it up by saying the world would flip out if it knew about you? To me, that is horrible parenting, especially for a character who is revered for being one of the greatest parents in comics. That dialogue deeply bothered me. If your goal as a screenwriter is to humanize Pa Kent by showing that he's honestly uncertain about what to do? Then when Clark asks "what was I supposed to do? Just let them die?" Have Pa Kent say something like "no, of course not. I'd never want you to stand by and do nothing while innocent people die. What I'm saying is.. you have got to be more careful. There's more at play here than you get right now. But we'll figure it out. Together. You will always have me." ( Or whatever.) My point here is - I am fine with a daunted, humanized Pa Kent. What I'm not fine with is having him cross the line into saying things which could terrify and mislead his child - and that's what I got from the scene as shot. Again, I realize that not everyone agrees with me, I respect that. But for me? That scene was one of the things which killed Man of Steel.
@Matt - murder, manslaughter.. My point is, Superman intentionally killed his enemy, and that still nauseates me. I've heard the arguments as to why it shouldn't, and none have changed my mind. I respect the opinions of those who disagree. But that's my opinion.
As for the Pa Kent scene in MoS, here is my problem with it: when a young boy is deeply anguished and looks to his dad, and asks if he should let innocent children die merely to keep *someone* from *possibly* seeing that the boy is different? And the dad replies "maybe" - and backs it up by saying the world would flip out if it knew about you? To me, that is horrible parenting, especially for a character who is revered for being one of the greatest parents in comics. That dialogue deeply bothered me. If your goal as a screenwriter is to humanize Pa Kent by showing that he's honestly uncertain about what to do? Then when Clark asks "what was I supposed to do? Just let them die?" Have Pa Kent say something like "no, of course not. I'd never want you to stand by and do nothing while innocent people die. What I'm saying is.. you have got to be more careful. There's more at play here than you get right now. But we'll figure it out. Together. You will always have me." ( Or whatever.) My point here is - I am fine with a daunted, humanized Pa Kent. What I'm not fine with is having him cross the line into saying things which could terrify and mislead his child - and that's what I got from the scene as shot. Again, I realize that not everyone agrees with me, I respect that. But for me? That scene was one of the things which killed Man of Steel.
I'm not looking to justify either scene (there's a thread with pages & pages where I did that). I just have a petpeeve about calling the killing "murder" & claiming Pa told Clark to let the kids die, when neither are accurate.
That's all. Oh, and to let you know to keep Children's Services on speed dial. I parent the same way.
@Matt - No worries, I've got a petpeeve about saying Pa didn't tell Clark to let the kids die, when that's not accurate. So I feel your frustration. And rest assured: if I ever find a cute little alien baby in a wrecked starship, I will give him to some other CGS'er.
@nweathington - That brings up the interesting question of "would Superman have been put on trial for killing Zod?" Is it manslaughter when the killed lifeform is not of this Earth? Is Zod technically a man?
I think there were still witnesses present who saw that Superman killed Zod to prevent him from heat-visioning more people, so that would've worked in Big Blue's favor...
@nweathington - That brings up the interesting question of "would Superman have been put on trial for killing Zod?" Is it manslaughter when the killed lifeform is not of this Earth? Is Zod technically a man?
I think there were still witnesses present who saw that Superman killed Zod to prevent him from heat-visioning more people, so that would've worked in Big Blue's favor...
Its technically murder 3. Still a felony. Worse case scenario is life in prison.
For myself, the only parts that felt like good film-making were the scenes that have already been story boarded to perfection in the comics. All of the 'original' aspects of the film completely turned me off, as I've noted much earlier in this thread.
Even a stinker like Superman Returns had more joy and hope and represented Superman far better than Snyder's vision.
Just finished the "ultimate" edition. With the exception of a couple small added scenes that helped the story a little bit, it's in no way a better movie. In fact, it might actually make it worse or at least shows how incredibly and confusingly off track and directionless they were from the beginning. So overwritten and pompous and heavy handed. So aimless and lazy. So simply out of touch with the sources. Although still really happy for the most part w batman/Bruce and Alfred. While not in love, pleased with ww.
Finally came up in my Netflix queue & I finally watched the whole movie. Kent & his supporting crew really got underused. The Batman stuff was just as bad as I figured based on all the stuff I watched. Eisenberg was worse then I thought he was based on the stuff I saw.
Second movie into the DCEU and I still think Kent is the best character (Diana has the possibility of being at least on par). The 2 characters I think are the most interesting in DC, Batman & Lex, are the 2 least developed & likable in the DCEU.
Hey, sorry I'm late to the party. I'm here to have an opinion on the new Jack Kirby New Gods movie before it's released. What?... Wrong thread?... Dammit, how do I keep doing that?!?
Comments
M
Also at play is that I could watch BvS while distancing myself from the two aspects of MoS which disturbed me the most: Pa Kent's advice to his son about hiding from society at whatever the cost; and Superman snapping Zod's neck at the end. Yes, Pa Kent "appears" in BvS, but it's just for a moment, and he's talking about letting a bunch of horses die instead of innocent schoolchildren (an improvement!). And as for killing Zod? Somehow not seeing it in BvS - having it be this haunting spectre from the past - made it easier for me to pretend it was a "you had to be there moment." That maybe it happened differently than what I saw/remembered. In BvS, I can chalk up Batman's (and society's) fear and dread about Superman to the general mass destruction caused by taking down Zod and Faora at the end of MoS. I didn't have to dwell on the specific idea that Superman murdered his first adversary.
Truthfully, I walked out of BvS feeling so happy and relieved, that I decided to give MoS another shot! It was playing on FX that weekend, so I recorded it and watched. And you know what? I began to appreciate it much more. I enjoyed it way more than I did in 2013! Until about the 37 minute mark - when Pa Kent tells Clark to let kids die - at which point I got furious again and shut the movie off. Oh well, I tried! :joy: :joy: :joy:
We might get more a variety of comparisons if and when the Ultimate Edition is available for rent, or if it ever streams through a Netflix or Amazon or something. That is a lower bar of entry for those that weren't as hot on BVS but liked it enough to give a longer cut a look.
Pa really didn't tell Kent to let kids die. He stated he didn't know (what to do), making him more honest (for my tastes). It was a good way to teach his son not to make knee jerk reactions, but think about the cause & effects of his actions.
M
As for the Pa Kent scene in MoS, here is my problem with it: when a young boy is deeply anguished and looks to his dad, and asks if he should let innocent children die merely to keep *someone* from *possibly* seeing that the boy is different? And the dad replies "maybe" - and backs it up by saying the world would flip out if it knew about you? To me, that is horrible parenting, especially for a character who is revered for being one of the greatest parents in comics. That dialogue deeply bothered me. If your goal as a screenwriter is to humanize Pa Kent by showing that he's honestly uncertain about what to do? Then when Clark asks "what was I supposed to do? Just let them die?" Have Pa Kent say something like "no, of course not. I'd never want you to stand by and do nothing while innocent people die. What I'm saying is.. you have got to be more careful. There's more at play here than you get right now. But we'll figure it out. Together. You will always have me." ( Or whatever.) My point here is - I am fine with a daunted, humanized Pa Kent. What I'm not fine with is having him cross the line into saying things which could terrify and mislead his child - and that's what I got from the scene as shot. Again, I realize that not everyone agrees with me, I respect that. But for me? That scene was one of the things which killed Man of Steel.
That's all. Oh, and to let you know to keep Children's Services on speed dial. I parent the same way.
M
Okay, not really, but still, if you're going to be nitpicky, go all the way with it.
M
I think there were still witnesses present who saw that Superman killed Zod to prevent him from heat-visioning more people, so that would've worked in Big Blue's favor...
M
M
Even a stinker like Superman Returns had more joy and hope and represented Superman far better than Snyder's vision.
Second movie into the DCEU and I still think Kent is the best character (Diana has the possibility of being at least on par). The 2 characters I think are the most interesting in DC, Batman & Lex, are the 2 least developed & likable in the DCEU.
M
I’ve been saying this since BvS:DOJ, Snyder wanted the DCEU to be Watchmen.
http://collider.com/zack-snyder-why-batman-kills-in-batman-v-superman/amp/
I feel like he’s fallen into the Phantom Zone with only flashes of his presence through the Zone-a-Phone when BvS:DoJ comes up!
Is he on to new things? Seems entirely focused on defending his old bad things.
To quote Stu Macher in Scream: ”but wait...there’s more!”
https://movieweb.com/amp/justice-league-zack-snyder-cut-exists-runtime/