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What Is The Value Of Art?

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    rebisrebis Posts: 1,820
    The artist thought more of the comics then the person that put them in the dumpster.
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    Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    rebis said:

    The artist thought more of the comics then the person that put them in the dumpster.

    He certainly got more use out of them!

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    kiwijasekiwijase Posts: 451
    I once read a story about an installation artist who decided to dump the contents of his rubbish bin on the floor of the art gallery he was exhibiting at and have it be one of his exhibits. Only thing is, he forgot to cordon it off, and when the cleaners came in during closing hours, they took the "exhibit" as ordinary old rubbish, and threw it away!
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    KrescanKrescan Posts: 623
    he was happy to take something worth money and make it into something worth less, i wonder on a daily basis how many times this guy gets slapped

    i figured everyone knows what an old comic book looks like, and with the mentality that old comic books are worth thousands you'd think he'd at least look them up

    he probably did and still decided to do it, which means he should get slapped again
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    rebisrebis Posts: 1,820
    Krescan said:

    he was happy to take something worth money and make it into something worth less, i wonder on a daily basis how many times this guy gets slapped

    i figured everyone knows what an old comic book looks like, and with the mentality that old comic books are worth thousands you'd think he'd at least look them up

    he probably did and still decided to do it, which means he should get slapped again

    I disagree. The person to be slapped is the one that threw them in the dumpster. That person assigned worth to the objects by placing them where he/she did.
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    Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    rebis said:

    Krescan said:

    he was happy to take something worth money and make it into something worth less, i wonder on a daily basis how many times this guy gets slapped

    i figured everyone knows what an old comic book looks like, and with the mentality that old comic books are worth thousands you'd think he'd at least look them up

    he probably did and still decided to do it, which means he should get slapped again

    I disagree. The person to be slapped is the one that threw them in the dumpster. That person assigned worth to the objects by placing them where he/she did.
    Frankly, I think they both deserved to be slapped. The only true value of a book -- any book -- is in reading it. And you can't do that when it's plastered to chickenwire. My appreciation for art has limits.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    I'm in the minority here.

    I think it's a cool piece of art, and wish he'd known the value of the books and done it anyway.

    That would have been audacious.

    Besides, every rare comic lost makes the other copies more valuable.*

    *Now if someone would just make a life-size papier-mache aircraft carrier out of copies of The Death of Superman.
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    rebisrebis Posts: 1,820

    rebis said:

    Krescan said:

    he was happy to take something worth money and make it into something worth less, i wonder on a daily basis how many times this guy gets slapped

    i figured everyone knows what an old comic book looks like, and with the mentality that old comic books are worth thousands you'd think he'd at least look them up

    he probably did and still decided to do it, which means he should get slapped again

    I disagree. The person to be slapped is the one that threw them in the dumpster. That person assigned worth to the objects by placing them where he/she did.
    Frankly, I think they both deserved to be slapped. The only true value of a book -- any book -- is in reading it. And you can't do that when it's plastered to chickenwire. My appreciation for art has limits.
    It can still be read. Just, not in sequence.

    Being an "art first" guy, I'm not as offended by the repurposing of the comic as others seem to be. To me this work is much like what DJ's do when they lift samples from songs to make something new.
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    David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    Also, the value of the comics from the dumpster is now part of the narrative of the art. Even if the value of the comics was not part of the sculptor's intention, it has now become part of the context of the piece. It has now partly become a piece about trash and treasure. And, now that it has become repurposed art to be displayed, the art of those pages, as well as the inclusion in a new work, will likely be seen by many more eyeballs then if they were treated as an asset, sealed in plastic, and filed away in a box.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    rebis said:

    The person to be slapped is the one that threw them in the dumpster. That person assigned worth to the objects by placing them where he/she did.

    Self-slapped, I'll give you.
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    Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    edited July 2013
    rebis said:

    rebis said:

    Krescan said:

    he was happy to take something worth money and make it into something worth less, i wonder on a daily basis how many times this guy gets slapped

    i figured everyone knows what an old comic book looks like, and with the mentality that old comic books are worth thousands you'd think he'd at least look them up

    he probably did and still decided to do it, which means he should get slapped again

    I disagree. The person to be slapped is the one that threw them in the dumpster. That person assigned worth to the objects by placing them where he/she did.
    Frankly, I think they both deserved to be slapped. The only true value of a book -- any book -- is in reading it. And you can't do that when it's plastered to chickenwire. My appreciation for art has limits.
    It can still be read. Just, not in sequence.

    Being an "art first" guy, I'm not as offended by the repurposing of the comic as others seem to be. To me this work is much like what DJ's do when they lift samples from songs to make something new.
    Yeah, and that's an old controversy as well. I'm not a fan of 'sampling'.
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    KrescanKrescan Posts: 623
    It's a cool piece of art.....it would have been a cool piece of art if he'd done as a commenter on the site said and made photo copies of the comics

    and then sold the comics for what they're worth (which dumpster so not full price but it would've been something fairly significant) and then given that money away to charity since "money has not got such a value to (him)"

    some people need that money the artist apparently isn't one of them

    i'm a "food first" guy, if you're starving the mona lisa is just a lady looking at you being hungry
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    David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited July 2013
    Krescan said:

    It's a cool piece of art.....it would have been a cool piece of art if he'd done as a commenter on the site said and made photo copies of the comics

    and then sold the comics for what they're worth (which dumpster so not full price but it would've been something fairly significant) and then given that money away to charity since "money has not got such a value to (him)"

    some people need that money the artist apparently isn't one of them

    i'm a "food first" guy, if you're starving the mona lisa is just a lady looking at you being hungry

    I would argue that, artistically, photocopies of the comics would be different than the comics themselves. There is something to be said artistically of using a found object as part of the piece. Part of the point of the use of the comics, I would guess, is that it is a certain kind of old object that once had one purpose and now is being repurposed. I don't know that the point was *just* for the art of the comic pages to be seen. To put it in our terms- the piece was a sculpture made out of first print originals. It may have meant a different thing if it were made out of trades, you know what I mean?

    And as for the idea that instead of being a sculptor he should get into the business of appraising and selling things to better feed people. . . I mean, I see what you are saying, but let's be fair-- if we follow that argument to its logical end point, could not all artistic endeavor be measured in economic impact and how many people it feeds? Could that not be applied to all endeavor, professional or avocational? Should we not be doing something that better makes money and feeds people rather than write these posts? Do we only have responsibility to try to sell and donate money when we find comic books in the trash? Or should we feel responsible to try to sell things like scrap metal that we see in the trash?

    I think by that standard, nearly everything people do is time wasted. But not everything is utilitarian and about survival. In fact, some say that art is what humans started doing once there was surplus. Art comes out of surplus, and therefore an object (like old funnybooks) may be considered by an artist for their artistic potential rather than their potential as an asset.
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    KrescanKrescan Posts: 623
    you're right, i'm upset because i don't like the guys aloofness about the whole thing

    in reality he probably was like "they're worth what now? well i'm going to pretend that that sort of thing is beneath me and that i find the whole thing amusing"
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    David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    Krescan said:

    you're right, i'm upset because i don't like the guys aloofness about the whole thing

    in reality he probably was like "they're worth what now? well i'm going to pretend that that sort of thing is beneath me and that i find the whole thing amusing"

    Maybe. Or, once it started to get press, he responded in ways that appealed to his audience. Or maybe it is what he really felt. I don't know him. But choosing a life as a sculptor is usually not the way to economic stability, so I wouldn't be surprised if he values art over profit. That may be aloof. Or it may actually be integrity to the art he believes in.
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    RickMRickM Posts: 407
    His earlier work, "Gutenberg Bible Re-Purposed as Prom Streamers," is the one that pissed me off.
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    HexHex Posts: 944
    Art is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

    There are many many people out there that think comics are worthless "low" art, that would most likely think this is a much more appropriate use of the medium.
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    mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 4,624
    edited July 2013
    This story can only increase the monetary value of his mache man. It has gone from something that looks like a 3rd grade art project to legimatly interesting. It also opened up a new market for his project; if he doesn't take his art to seriously.

    It's a pretty cool story though. I'm not sure how I would feel if I were him. I have a feeling I wouldn't be too upset. He didn't pay for those comics, and early Avengers issues had no value to him. Now his Paper Avenger has a great story with a real history, so I guess he came out on top. Maybe he can sell the mache man for more than the dumpster copies were worth.
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    TorchsongTorchsong Posts: 2,794
    "Art is what you can get away with." - Andy Warhol

    As Pop Art it works - and if he used valuable books to make it, more's the statement it makes. Like David said, many artistic/graphic design movements were brought in on the idea of using "found" objects.

    A more powerful statement might be if he'd bought the books, paid that $30k, and then repurposed/destroyed them to make his piece. We'd either be burning him in effigy, calling him a fool, or both.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Torchsong said:

    A more powerful statement might be if he'd bought the books, paid that $30k, and then repurposed/destroyed them to make his piece. We'd either be burning him in effigy, calling him a fool, or both.

    Yep. That would be ART, by gum.

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    mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 4,624
    That would be art
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    John_SteedJohn_Steed Posts: 2,087
    Like THE KLF burning 1 million pounds.



    (governments do it as well - without claiming it to be art though)
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    Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    I'd still rather have the comics.
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    batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    I actually think its a cool idea, but this particular piece is ugly. I also wouldn't be happy if someone intentionally used rare and valuable books for such a thing personally. And the guy comes across like a douche to me.
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    LibraryBoyLibraryBoy Posts: 1,803
    The comics are only worth $30K if you can find someone willing to pay that much for them.
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