New Coke was a ploy. They wanted to change Old Coke from "Coke Made with Sugar" to "Coke Made with HFCs" and didn't want anyone to notice. And so New Coke was put in the middle.
I will make one point on the meta discussion (the talking ABOUT the talking) and then try to let the discussion get back to the specific thing at hand (upcoming DC Animated titles)--
Talking about DC New 52 is comics talk, and relevant to any topic that involves those comics or characters, so it is never not allowed. However, take the following as my personal opinion. These are not rules for us to argue about, just a thought to consider--
I get the need to vent, and that some things are polarizing, and bring out the negative. And there is always room for that.
But, sometimes, if you have been negative about something for awhile, you may want to stop and consider how many times you may have typed the same thing. Think of it as a sort of 'autoresponse' check:
If you are expressing a general something that maybe you say every time a certain subject comes up, and if it is a subject that comes up a lot, then maybe we've heard you on it recently. And unless you versed in or engaging in the specifics of the discussion (e.g. you've read the comic that is being talked about, or the announcement being discussed has led to a new angle in your thinking, etc.) then maybe you can reasonably expect we know what you think about this. And unless your thinking has changed, then you probably feel the same thing, in general, about the subject as you did the other day.
And, of course, everyone knows it is a discussion, and a forum. But I think the pushback against the negativity is not so much about it being negativity, as that in some cases it is not about the specifics about what is talking about. In some cases, whenever someone sees anything connected to the New 52, then it is time to vent in general about the direction the publisher has taken. And not necessarily about the specifics of the discussion. As some of the people doing the venting have reminded us many times they are not reading these books anymore. Or jumped off at the relaunch. And, at this point, years into the relaunch, that sort of negativity is now so general that it may not have a lot to add anymore to a discussion of the actual things themselves. It is one thing to read or see something and have a negative reaction. Because then we are talking about an experience of a thing. But to hear over and over again why you are not reading anything from this or that publisher is just a repetition of a negation. And, sure, it is your right. It is allowed. But it doesn't tend to lead the discussion anywhere. You know what I mean?
And so I understand why some are frustrated by so many discussions of specific current DC things getting a lot of 'I don't read them and here's why' general refrains.
I know that is broad, and there are all sorts of exceptions. But I think you get what I am saying. I will use a specific example that I was guilty of--
When it came to Before Watchmen, I was very negative about it as an idea, and spent a lot of time discussing that with people, and making comments about it, etc. But when it went from an announcement of comics to the comics themselves, I wasn't reading them, but there were those who were that wanted to talk about them as comics, without having it be another discussion about whether or not DC should be doing it in the first place. And I got that. They asked to have room to just discuss the comics as comics, and I respected that wish.
So, my suggestion (and it is only that) is that if you are venting whether about New 52, or other subjects that encounter a lot of repetition (Marvel prices and double-shipping come to mind), you may want to take a second and wonder, 'Am I about to say that thing I always say and said two days ago? Is this my autoresponse?' And if it is, then maybe that energy is better put into something we haven't heard from you lately instead.
I disagree. I hate lamp. I wish they would stop thinking of their bottom lines and go back to when they were making lamp the way i want them to so I can be included. In all the years that I did love lamp, it has never been as bad as lamp is now. In fact, I'd rather they just do away with lamp altogether than make lamp that I can't be part of. The whole lamp thing has been a failure because they failed to get me to love lamp again.
Allow me to be a "Positive Peter" then, and talk about what could work about this as opposed to what couldn't (assuming any of it is true):
- The first seven or so issues of N52 Justice League would make a great animated movie. Justice League vs. Darkseid. 'Nuff said. You can take all that extra time an animated feature allows to give more exposition, more action, more everything. - Consider making stuff out of some of those already canceled properties. Blackhawks sucked as a single issue series, but held its own in trade format, and would like make a nice alterna-GIJoe property. Everyone hates Liefeld on Hawk & Dove, but we don't hate Hawk & Dove. I could see that being a good one-shot. And...of course...bring back the damn Legion! - One-shots for Aquaman and Wonder Woman, based on their individual titles. With good animation, not fly by night stuff. Give me the Trench. Give me Black Manta. Show me The Others. Give me Diana fighting the Gods.
It's very easy to kick DC while they're down, but I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's still a few things they're doing right.
I would add to your list of positive 52, OMAC animated could be great fun. Animal Man, animation might be the best way to deal with that story Swamp Thing, ditto Frankenstein, Would love to see this.
If I want old lamp, I have old lamp to go back to in my back lamp and trade lamp bins. And if new lamp fails, I can pick it up for cheap in the 50-cent lamp bins at future lampcons.
Bullshit. Nick was told to get off the forums. And that's all the difference when it comes to the people Nick is addressing. They 'need' to be heard. They 'need' to vent. And everyone else should fuck off? Bullshit. Negative nancys can't handle not being heard. So much that they MUST. KEEP. POSTING. And it's the same handful of posters in several threads beating the same drum over and over. As Nick said, you bitching on a forum isn't going to change publishers. DC has twitter. DC has Facebook. Grow some balls and join those pages and talk to them directly. Everything else is noise.
Again - as in the old days, other posters can turn things around. Don't respond to the haters. Post as if you never even read their posts. Turn the discussion to what you want to talk about.
And might I suggest to CGS: update the Vanilla Forum plugins to include an ignore feature. That'll go a long way to drown out the people making these threads into boring retreads of the same whiiiiiiiiiiining.
Love and kisses. :)
My response to Nick was not "get off the forums".. it was "get off the FORUMS ( where people DISCUSS things), and just go read DC's press releases on CBR or Newsarama" He was complaining that people were expressing their opinions, not just sharing news. Go ahead... read his post. I didn't mean never come back, but if he wants just cold hard news, he should go read those things. If he doesn't want my opinion, or yours, or anybody else's, he's looking for something in the wrong place.
The definition of FORUM, dating back to ancient Rome, is that it was a gathering place/event where people shared information.
This post is about DC turning it's animation output's attention to the N52 version of their universe, and if people don't agree with or like that, where the hell else is the proper place to discuss it? Nick, and others, can skip over those posts, disregard them, mark them out with a sharpee, or shoot a hole in his monitor, but as long as it's an open forum, people should feel comfortable posting them.
And, I will point out, that Nick's response to someone not liking the N52 was extremely NEGATIVE.
Lots of people have zero tolerance for newbie posts... how to get in to comics, what series to read, etc. But thank God this is a place where people can post such questions and get honest, heartfelt responses.
Someone out there may be sick of YOUR posts, positive or negative. I think you should be able to post your undying man-love for George Perez ( ;) )as often as you wish. Be warned, though, that would be a very opinionated post, and you should really stick to the facts to avoid upsetting anyone.
And as far as an ignore button, bring it on. If some asshole is that offended by my unbridled ability to think and share my opinion, he or she shouldn't be endangered by exposure to my thoughts.
Aw man. There's some great ones that I was hoping would be animated. From my experiences so far, when talking to younger fans, they're only interested in the new 52. What about us older ones? I'm not even 30 yet but the 80s, 90s and 00s brought us some great stories that would make fantastic animated films that would sell well.
Comments
M
Also, the Moon Landing is fake.
Talking about DC New 52 is comics talk, and relevant to any topic that involves those comics or characters, so it is never not allowed. However, take the following as my personal opinion. These are not rules for us to argue about, just a thought to consider--
I get the need to vent, and that some things are polarizing, and bring out the negative. And there is always room for that.
But, sometimes, if you have been negative about something for awhile, you may want to stop and consider how many times you may have typed the same thing. Think of it as a sort of 'autoresponse' check:
If you are expressing a general something that maybe you say every time a certain subject comes up, and if it is a subject that comes up a lot, then maybe we've heard you on it recently. And unless you versed in or engaging in the specifics of the discussion
(e.g. you've read the comic that is being talked about, or the announcement being discussed has led to a new angle in your thinking, etc.) then maybe you can reasonably expect we know what you think about this. And unless your thinking has changed, then you probably feel the same thing, in general, about the subject as you did the other day.
And, of course, everyone knows it is a discussion, and a forum. But I think the pushback against the negativity is not so much about it being negativity, as that in some cases it is not about the specifics about what is talking about. In some cases, whenever someone sees anything connected to the New 52, then it is time to vent in general about the direction the publisher has taken. And not necessarily about the specifics of the discussion. As some of the people doing the venting have reminded us many times they are not reading these books anymore. Or jumped off at the relaunch. And, at this point, years into the relaunch, that sort of negativity is now so general that it may not have a lot to add anymore to a discussion of the actual things themselves. It is one thing to read or see something and have a negative reaction. Because then we are talking about an experience of a thing. But to hear over and over again why you are not reading anything from this or that publisher is just a repetition of a negation. And, sure, it is your right. It is allowed. But it doesn't tend to lead the discussion anywhere. You know what I mean?
And so I understand why some are frustrated by so many discussions of specific current DC things getting a lot of 'I don't read them and here's why' general refrains.
I know that is broad, and there are all sorts of exceptions. But I think you get what I am saying. I will use a specific example that I was guilty of--
When it came to Before Watchmen, I was very negative about it as an idea, and spent a lot of time discussing that with people, and making comments about it, etc. But when it went from an announcement of comics to the comics themselves, I wasn't reading them, but there were those who were that wanted to talk about them as comics, without having it be another discussion about whether or not DC should be doing it in the first place. And I got that. They asked to have room to just discuss the comics as comics, and I respected that wish.
So, my suggestion (and it is only that) is that if you are venting whether about New 52, or other subjects that encounter a lot of repetition (Marvel prices and double-shipping come to mind), you may want to take a second and wonder, 'Am I about to say that thing I always say and said two days ago? Is this my autoresponse?' And if it is, then maybe that energy is better put into something we haven't heard from you lately instead.
OMAC animated could be great fun.
Animal Man, animation might be the best way to deal with that story
Swamp Thing, ditto
Frankenstein, Would love to see this.
The definition of FORUM, dating back to ancient Rome, is that it was a gathering place/event where people shared information.
This post is about DC turning it's animation output's attention to the N52 version of their universe, and if people don't agree with or like that, where the hell else is the proper place to discuss it? Nick, and others, can skip over those posts, disregard them, mark them out with a sharpee, or shoot a hole in his monitor, but as long as it's an open forum, people should feel comfortable posting them.
And, I will point out, that Nick's response to someone not liking the N52 was extremely NEGATIVE.
Lots of people have zero tolerance for newbie posts... how to get in to comics, what series to read, etc. But thank God this is a place where people can post such questions and get honest, heartfelt responses.
Someone out there may be sick of YOUR posts, positive or negative. I think you should be able to post your undying man-love for George Perez ( ;) )as often as you wish. Be warned, though, that would be a very opinionated post, and you should really stick to the facts to avoid upsetting anyone.
And as far as an ignore button, bring it on. If some asshole is that offended by my unbridled ability to think and share my opinion, he or she shouldn't be endangered by exposure to my thoughts.
This guy on the other hand: