I remember when John died, at eight years old, it was too big for me grasp. I didn't understand what was going on and why my dad was just sitting by the stereo crying.
I have that memory, too- I think I was four or five, but I remember trying g to wrap my head around my dad being sad about someone dying who was not family or a friend, but was still important to him.
I was in fifth grade at the time. One of my good friends from childhood was all into the Beatles. She sat behind me in English class, and I remember talking with her about it, and her crying, the morning after it happened. I remember some television news footage too, but it's a lot more vague.
I don’t remember exactly what either of us said, but talking with her is what stands out to me. I haven’t seen her in 22 years, but I’ll never forget her face because of that moment.
I got in a shoving match with an ROTC cadet.
I kept putting the campus flag at half-mast, and he kept putting it back up.
I remember when John died, at eight years old, it was too big for me grasp. I didn't understand what was going on and why my dad was just sitting by the stereo crying.
I have that memory, too- I think I was four or five, but I remember trying g to wrap my head around my dad being sad about someone dying who was not family or a friend, but was still important to him.
I was in fifth grade at the time. One of my good friends from childhood was all into the Beatles. She sat behind me in English class, and I remember talking with her about it, and her crying, the morning after it happened. I remember some television news footage too, but it's a lot more vague.
I don’t remember exactly what either of us said, but talking with her is what stands out to me. I haven’t seen her in 22 years, but I’ll never forget her face because of that moment.
I got in a shoving match with an ROTC cadet.
I kept putting the campus flag at half-mast, and he kept putting it back up.
My friends had to drag me away.
Would you have done that (or do something similar) for any other celebrity?
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
M
You’re assuming everyone crying of the death of John Lennon was emotionally attached to Lennon himself, whereas I would say most of those people were emotionally attached to his music much moreso than his celebrity. It’s easy to get emotionally attached to art. Art is designed to generate an emotional response. And I think music speaks more directly to people than most other forms of art.
When an artist like John Lennon is very much in the public eye and is such a vibrant personality, it’s to be expected that some of that emotion attached to his music is transferred to his person as well. That’s just human nature.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
M
You’re assuming everyone crying of the death of John Lennon was emotionally attached to Lennon himself, whereas I would say most of those people were emotionally attached to his music much moreso than his celebrity. It’s easy to get emotionally attached to art. Art is designed to generate an emotional response. And I think music speaks more directly to people than most other forms of art.
When an artist like John Lennon is very much in the public eye and is such a vibrant personality, it’s to be expected that some of that emotion attached to his music is transferred to his person as well. That’s just human nature.
Fair enough. Then I don't have that kind of attachment to any piece of art in any form. Its interesting to me (not as a criticism, but as an observer) that people generate that kind of connection.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
M
You’re assuming everyone crying of the death of John Lennon was emotionally attached to Lennon himself, whereas I would say most of those people were emotionally attached to his music much moreso than his celebrity. It’s easy to get emotionally attached to art. Art is designed to generate an emotional response. And I think music speaks more directly to people than most other forms of art.
When an artist like John Lennon is very much in the public eye and is such a vibrant personality, it’s to be expected that some of that emotion attached to his music is transferred to his person as well. That’s just human nature.
Fair enough. Then I don't have that kind of attachment to any piece of art in any form. Its interesting to me (not as a criticism, but as an observer) that people generate that kind of connection.
Would you have done that (or do something similar) for any other celebrity?
M
I object to your term "celebrity".
John wasn't a "celebrity", he was the heart, soul and voice of a generation.
Was Martin Luther King a celebrity?
According to Webster, yes.
\sə-ˈle-brə-tē\ noun 1 : the state of being celebrated : fame 2 : a famous or celebrated person Other forms: plural ce·leb·ri·ties
To rework my initial question:
Would any other VOICE get the same treatment?
M
Fuck a buncha Websters.
I'm sorry you cannot grasp the kind of emotional/spiritual connection members of my generation had with The Beatles, and especially John.
That's what its sounding like. And don't be sorry. I don't get the same connection people have with God (in what're name/form) & religion, BUT I understand the psychological need people have to have that connection. I'm just an observer.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
Its interesting to know people were crying when they heard Lennon was murdered. It made me realize how much I don't have a connection with celebrities. I recall being said when I recently heard Paul Walker died, but that was because I knew he had a daughter & felt bad for her. I can't say I got anymore emotional then "Oh man, that sucks." It's the same reaction I'd give if my wife told me 1 of her coworkers I met 3 times died.
And to be honest, I don't get invested too much in the daily lives of celebrities either. Their relationships, marriages, divorces, births, mansions, addictions, or struggles growing up. Truthfully, if you're putting out interesting entertainment I really don't give a shit about how the events in your life have no baring on my own.
M
You’re assuming everyone crying of the death of John Lennon was emotionally attached to Lennon himself, whereas I would say most of those people were emotionally attached to his music much moreso than his celebrity. It’s easy to get emotionally attached to art. Art is designed to generate an emotional response. And I think music speaks more directly to people than most other forms of art.
When an artist like John Lennon is very much in the public eye and is such a vibrant personality, it’s to be expected that some of that emotion attached to his music is transferred to his person as well. That’s just human nature.
Fair enough. Then I don't have that kind of attachment to any piece of art in any form. Its interesting to me (not as a criticism, but as an observer) that people generate that kind of connection.
M
Then you, sir, are a cold, heartless bastard. ;)
When something happens to my family, close friends, & dog I get emotional & say more then "Oh man, that sucks."
I was walking around singing "Ticket to Ride" the other day, apropos of nothing, so I'll put that as my pre-Rubber Soul pick.
I remember it was a snowy day but school was still in session so my parents gave me and a few other kids a lift to school that day when we heard about Lennon's assassination. I remember it was sad, and I knew who the Beatles were, but I wasn't particularly broken up about them. It wasn't like someone from KISS had died (I'm being partially serious/partially humorous here. :) ).
We may have inadvertently poisoned our daughter's relationship with the Beatles music, as an early method to get her to fall asleep as a baby was to play the Rockabye Baby! Lullaby Renditions of The Beatles over and over. And "Yellow Submarine" was one of the songs I would sing to her over and over as a lullaby.
It worked then. But now she shouts if I attempt a single note of 'Submarine these days!
We may have inadvertently poisoned our daughter's relationship with the Beatles music, as an early method to get her to fall asleep as a baby was to play the Rockabye Baby! Lullaby Renditions of The Beatles over and over. And "Yellow Submarine" was one of the songs I would sing to her over and over as a lullaby.
It worked then. But now she shouts if I attempt a single note of 'Submarine these days!
When something happens to my family, close friends, & dog I get emotional & say more then "Oh man, that sucks."
M
I stand corrected. You are not a cold, heartless bastard, merely one possessing a soul with the depth of a Petri dish. :D
Seriously, though, there are no songs that evoke any kind of emotional response in you whatsoever? No song that makes you wistfully remember your first girlfriend? No song that reminds you of that awesome road trip you took with your best buds back in your college days? Not even a Christmas carol that brings up the joy you felt when you found that Junior Detective Set you’d wanted so badly under the tree on Christmas morning? Nada?
When something happens to my family, close friends, & dog I get emotional & say more then "Oh man, that sucks."
M
I stand corrected. You are not a cold, heartless bastard, merely one possessing a soul with the depth of a Petri dish. :D
Seriously, though, there are no songs that evoke any kind of emotional response in you whatsoever? No song that makes you wistfully remember your first girlfriend? No song that reminds you of that awesome road trip you took with your best buds back in your college days? Not even a Christmas carol that brings up the joy you felt when you found that Junior Detective Set you’d wanted so badly under the tree on Christmas morning? Nada?
Sure; 'With or Without You' by U2 - first kiss 'Possession' by Sarah McLachlan - sense of homicidal power 'Full of Grace' by Sarah McLachlan - loss of my first love 'Mad World' by Michael Andrews & Gary Jules - low point in my life 'Back in Black' by AC/DC - a "rebirth"
With the exception of 'Possession', I've exorcized those demons that the song brought about (Possession helps fuel THOSE demons). I recall how I felt with each song, I just don't feel it anymore.
Also, despite the feelings I had connected with a song, I won't really give more then a "that sucks" when the singer(s) die. It's just...logical. ;)
When something happens to my family, close friends, & dog I get emotional & say more then "Oh man, that sucks."
M
I stand corrected. You are not a cold, heartless bastard, merely one possessing a soul with the depth of a Petri dish. :D
Seriously, though, there are no songs that evoke any kind of emotional response in you whatsoever? No song that makes you wistfully remember your first girlfriend? No song that reminds you of that awesome road trip you took with your best buds back in your college days? Not even a Christmas carol that brings up the joy you felt when you found that Junior Detective Set you’d wanted so badly under the tree on Christmas morning? Nada?
Sure; 'With or Without You' by U2 - first kiss 'Possession' by Sarah McLachlan - sense of homicidal power 'Full of Grace' by Sarah McLachlan - loss of my first love 'Mad World' by Michael Andrews & Gary Jules - low point in my life 'Back in Black' by AC/DC - a "rebirth"
With the exception of 'Possession', I've exorcized those demons that the song brought about (Possession helps fuel THOSE demons). I recall how I felt with each song, I just don't feel it anymore.
Also, despite the feelings I had connected with a song, I won't really give more then a "that sucks" when the singer(s) die. It's just...logical. ;)
M
See, you do have a soul! You just keep it locked up in the basement.
When something happens to my family, close friends, & dog I get emotional & say more then "Oh man, that sucks."
M
I stand corrected. You are not a cold, heartless bastard, merely one possessing a soul with the depth of a Petri dish. :D
Seriously, though, there are no songs that evoke any kind of emotional response in you whatsoever? No song that makes you wistfully remember your first girlfriend? No song that reminds you of that awesome road trip you took with your best buds back in your college days? Not even a Christmas carol that brings up the joy you felt when you found that Junior Detective Set you’d wanted so badly under the tree on Christmas morning? Nada?
Sure; 'With or Without You' by U2 - first kiss 'Possession' by Sarah McLachlan - sense of homicidal power 'Full of Grace' by Sarah McLachlan - loss of my first love 'Mad World' by Michael Andrews & Gary Jules - low point in my life 'Back in Black' by AC/DC - a "rebirth"
With the exception of 'Possession', I've exorcized those demons that the song brought about (Possession helps fuel THOSE demons). I recall how I felt with each song, I just don't feel it anymore.
Also, despite the feelings I had connected with a song, I won't really give more then a "that sucks" when the singer(s) die. It's just...logical. ;)
M
See, you do have a soul! You just keep it locked up in the basement.
This has made me realize aside from family, close friends, & specific pets, I wouldn't say there's anyone or group that's impacted or influenced me enough to breakdown at the death. No celebrities, no voices (for WetRats), politicians, spokespeople, religious figures, etc that would really rock me to the core if they got married, divorced, had kids, or died.
Even if we're talking the art vs. the person. If the art impacted me, it'll live on forever. I'd say the A-Team impacted some of my values. I was sad to hear George Peppard died, but at the same time, it was his role of Hannibal I cared more about. Peppard sounded like a guy I really wouldn't have wanted in my inner circle of friends.
I was only 4 when John was killed, so I guess I have some recollection of it, but given that it happened in the December of the first Christmas I really remember, any memories I have of that period are Christmas-related.
I hate to admit it, but I think my biggest connection to the Fab Four at that point in my life was the Stars on 45 Beatles medley! I didn't start to really learn about the band until Paul's string of duet hits kicked off a year or two later.
When something happens to my family, close friends, & dog I get emotional & say more then "Oh man, that sucks."
M
I stand corrected. You are not a cold, heartless bastard, merely one possessing a soul with the depth of a Petri dish. :D
Seriously, though, there are no songs that evoke any kind of emotional response in you whatsoever? No song that makes you wistfully remember your first girlfriend? No song that reminds you of that awesome road trip you took with your best buds back in your college days? Not even a Christmas carol that brings up the joy you felt when you found that Junior Detective Set you’d wanted so badly under the tree on Christmas morning? Nada?
Sure; 'With or Without You' by U2 - first kiss 'Possession' by Sarah McLachlan - sense of homicidal power 'Full of Grace' by Sarah McLachlan - loss of my first love 'Mad World' by Michael Andrews & Gary Jules - low point in my life 'Back in Black' by AC/DC - a "rebirth"
With the exception of 'Possession', I've exorcized those demons that the song brought about (Possession helps fuel THOSE demons). I recall how I felt with each song, I just don't feel it anymore.
Also, despite the feelings I had connected with a song, I won't really give more then a "that sucks" when the singer(s) die. It's just...logical. ;)
M
See, you do have a soul! You just keep it locked up in the basement.
This has made me realize aside from family, close friends, & specific pets, I wouldn't say there's anyone or group that's impacted or influenced me enough to breakdown at the death. No celebrities, no voices (for WetRats), politicians, spokespeople, religious figures, etc that would really rock me to the core if they got married, divorced, had kids, or died.
Even if we're talking the art vs. the person. If the art impacted me, it'll live on forever. I'd say the A-Team impacted some of my values. I was sad to hear George Peppard died, but at the same time, it was his role of Hannibal I cared more about. Peppard sounded like a guy I really wouldn't have wanted in my inner circle of friends.
M
I’m actually much the same way, Matt. My emotional ties to art (in all its myriad forms) seem to be much stronger than yours on the whole, but I very, very rarely cry over people I don’t personally know. I may be saddened to hear of their passing, saddened for their familiy, saddened for what they might have yet accomplished, but that’s about it. And I think a large number of people are that way, actually. It’s difficult to care that strongly about someone you have no direct connection with.
People who get “rocked to the core” over celebrity weddings, divorces, etc., are probably living vicariously through those celebrities. I think that’s something different than what we’ve been talking about with the Beatles. Like I said, I think most people connect first (and perhaps only) with the music, and then expand that connection to include the performers themselves. Those connections may be expressed the same way, but they are fundamentally different.
Wait a minute. The A-Team? I take it back. You have no soul.
You mean the notion of helping people despite your own blight (like being actively pursued by the military for a crime you didn't commit) means you have no soul?
How about fighting for the little guy against people who think they're above the law?
Wait a minute. The A-Team? I take it back. You have no soul.
You mean the notion of helping people despite your own blight (like being actively pursued by the military for a crime you didn't commit) means you have no soul?
M
No, the notion of helping people despite your own plight as long as they have to money to pay you to do so. That was the premise of the show, yes? “Maybe you can hire [emphasis mine] the A-Team”?
Wait a minute. The A-Team? I take it back. You have no soul.
You mean the notion of helping people despite your own blight (like being actively pursued by the military for a crime you didn't commit) means you have no soul?
M
No, the notion of helping people despite your own plight as long as they have to money to pay you to do so. That was the premise of the show, yes? “Maybe you can hire [emphasis mine] the A-Team”?
How many episodes did they actually get their fee? How many of THOSE episodes did they get the full amount? Having watched the series numerous times, there are far more times they DIDN'T get paid then when they did.
There were episodes the bad guys offered more then the clients. They're were a lot of episodes they found them in a situation where they decided to help out.
Trust me, if they were really mercenaries I wouldn't have enjoyed the show.
Wait a minute. The A-Team? I take it back. You have no soul.
You mean the notion of helping people despite your own blight (like being actively pursued by the military for a crime you didn't commit) means you have no soul?
M
No, the notion of helping people despite your own plight as long as they have to money to pay you to do so. That was the premise of the show, yes? “Maybe you can hire [emphasis mine] the A-Team”?
How many episodes did they actually get their fee? How many of THOSE episodes did they get the full amount? Having watched the series numerous times, there are far more times they DIDN'T get paid then when they did.
There were episodes the bad guys offered more then the clients. They're were a lot of episodes they found them in a situation where they decided to help out.
Trust me, if they were really mercenaries I wouldn't have enjoyed the show.
M
I’m just messing with you, Matt, but the fact remains that they do ask for a fee, and they do state in the opening credits that they are mercenaries for hire. But I think it’s great you can take something meaningful from such a ridiculous show (and I say “ridiculous” with affection—I watched the show pretty much every week for the first two or three seasons). Maybe you do have a soul after all.
Comments
I kept putting the campus flag at half-mast, and he kept putting it back up.
My friends had to drag me away.
M
John wasn't a "celebrity", he was the heart, soul and voice of a generation.
Was Martin Luther King a celebrity?
When an artist like John Lennon is very much in the public eye and is such a vibrant personality, it’s to be expected that some of that emotion attached to his music is transferred to his person as well. That’s just human nature.
\sə-ˈle-brə-tē\
noun
1 : the state of being celebrated : fame
2 : a famous or celebrated person
Other forms: plural ce·leb·ri·ties
To rework my initial question:
Would any other VOICE get the same treatment?
M
Fair enough. Then I don't have that kind of attachment to any piece of art in any form. Its interesting to me (not as a criticism, but as an observer) that people generate that kind of connection.
M
I'm sorry you cannot grasp the kind of emotional/spiritual connection members of my generation had with The Beatles, and especially John.
M
I remember it was a snowy day but school was still in session so my parents gave me and a few other kids a lift to school that day when we heard about Lennon's assassination. I remember it was sad, and I knew who the Beatles were, but I wasn't particularly broken up about them. It wasn't like someone from KISS had died (I'm being partially serious/partially humorous here. :) ).
It worked then. But now she shouts if I attempt a single note of 'Submarine these days!
How about "Burning down the House" by Talking Heads? Would that count?
I stand corrected. You are not a cold, heartless bastard, merely one possessing a soul with the depth of a Petri dish. :D
Seriously, though, there are no songs that evoke any kind of emotional response in you whatsoever? No song that makes you wistfully remember your first girlfriend? No song that reminds you of that awesome road trip you took with your best buds back in your college days? Not even a Christmas carol that brings up the joy you felt when you found that Junior Detective Set you’d wanted so badly under the tree on Christmas morning? Nada?
'With or Without You' by U2 - first kiss
'Possession' by Sarah McLachlan - sense of homicidal power
'Full of Grace' by Sarah McLachlan - loss of my first love
'Mad World' by Michael Andrews & Gary Jules - low point in my life
'Back in Black' by AC/DC - a "rebirth"
With the exception of 'Possession', I've exorcized those demons that the song brought about (Possession helps fuel THOSE demons). I recall how I felt with each song, I just don't feel it anymore.
Also, despite the feelings I had connected with a song, I won't really give more then a "that sucks" when the singer(s) die. It's just...logical. ;)
M
Even if we're talking the art vs. the person. If the art impacted me, it'll live on forever. I'd say the A-Team impacted some of my values. I was sad to hear George Peppard died, but at the same time, it was his role of Hannibal I cared more about. Peppard sounded like a guy I really wouldn't have wanted in my inner circle of friends.
M
I hate to admit it, but I think my biggest connection to the Fab Four at that point in my life was the Stars on 45 Beatles medley! I didn't start to really learn about the band until Paul's string of duet hits kicked off a year or two later.
People who get “rocked to the core” over celebrity weddings, divorces, etc., are probably living vicariously through those celebrities. I think that’s something different than what we’ve been talking about with the Beatles. Like I said, I think most people connect first (and perhaps only) with the music, and then expand that connection to include the performers themselves. Those connections may be expressed the same way, but they are fundamentally different.
How about fighting for the little guy against people who think they're above the law?
M
The fashion police would tell you otherwise.
<:-P
There were episodes the bad guys offered more then the clients. They're were a lot of episodes they found them in a situation where they decided to help out.
Trust me, if they were really mercenaries I wouldn't have enjoyed the show.
M
M