As a general summing up of the entire New 52, I make these observations, touched on in my capsule reviews above:
1 - Stories are too long. A lot of them feel more like filler to pad out a story to fit in a trade. I don't want to get the trade if it has that much filler. Tighten up those stories! If they have to be a year long, at least make them interesting enough so that we want to pick up the next issue! Compress time accordingly!
2 - Too many ugly costumes. Too many costumes that are visually busy! Simplify!!!! Turn off the raver lights!
3 - Reinvented characters seem to be moving away from the original concepts that made them unique or interesting to begin with. Changing things simply for the sake of changing them isn't creative, but is sure can be annoying.
4 - The characters and their backgrounds need more fleshing out -- and for God's sake, could they stop every so often to take a bathroom break or something!? Some of these stories go on so long that it seems like the characters have no private lives or concerns. Kyle Rayner was going to see about a job in GL:NG #1 -- twelve issues later, he still hasn't got there!
5 - I'm also concerned that the continuity is a little too tight in the New 52, to the point where a series can't 'breathe' on its own and expand accordingly. Everything is being connected and interconnected so heavily that it begins to feel a little inbred.
I like Justice League, but it seems a bit forgettable from month to month. The first story arc was neat, but rushed, and for brand new readers, they should have built up the team over a longer period of time with proper introductions of each character. I think DC had a chance to build a strong reader base over time and blew it.
I am just not sure what to make of StormWatch. I have trouble remembering who each character is. I don't understand the story lines. I can't seem to be excited by any of the plot threads. I always give ongoing series 12 issues before dropping them...and I am close to dropping StormWatch at the next convenient outpost.
Books I wish I had picked up, and will probably read digitally (when I buy my Windows 8 tablet):
Red Hood and the Outlaws - Kennth Rocafort and cheesecake go well together Wonder Woman - Seems a bit polarizing, but I am drawn to it VooDoo - The art looks amazing Action Comics
New books: None of the new stuff has caught my attention enough to order it. I think I may pick up the JLA book when it comes out though.
like most things the DCnU is a both/and rather than an either/or for me.
I like Barry. I miss Wally. I'm collecting (and enjoying) Batman, Batgirl and Nightwing for the first time ever. I dropped Demon Knights, Ressurection Man, Stormwatch (which i really expected to be good) I dug Aquaman for the first time ever. Now Aquaman bores me again. I discoved Kenneth Rocafort who i had somehow missed before now. I miss having Mike Norton on my DC books. Green Arrow has been jacked up terribly. Animal Man & Swamp Thing got new leases on life. I was disappointed in old favorites Dan Jurgens and George Perez. (fairly or not) I was happily surprised with Earth 2 I was excited by then quickly disappointed with Before Watchmen. most costumes are terrible. I like tatooed Roy Harper in a trucker cap.
I discoved Kenneth Rocafort who i had somehow missed before now.
I was disappointed in old favorites Dan Jurgens and George Perez. (fairly or not)
Kenneth Rocafort was one of the reasons why I didn't like Red Hood & The Outlaws, and one of the reasons why I won't be getting Superman anymore. In fact, Rocafort teamed up with Scott Lobdell is a real deal killer so far as I'm concerned.
I wasn't disappointed with either Jurgens or Perez, except that their Superman work feels a bit flat. And that, given Perez's complaints when he came off of the book, appears to be the result of micromanaging from editors and management.
Interesting thoughts all around. And extra credit to @Chuck_Melville for taking time to really unpack the books he is reading so thoroughly. There is some takes there I agreed with, and a lot of the books were ones I didn't read past #1 so it was cool to hear more about them. All in all it made for some interesting reading. I hope to be able to do the same myself once I get and read my issue 12s and encourage others to do the same.
Batwoman Pretty, but also pretty boring. Nice art, nice layouts, but one long boring story. After a year, I still can’t get a feel for how effective Batwoman really is in the Gotham environment. I want to like this book better than I do… but I dropped it after #10.
You held out longer than I did. I think I made six.
Well, I wanted to give the book a chance. The Detective stories were pretty good, and the art was decent enough. But this just wasn't keeping my interest.
Basically, what I remember about this series was that it was a long day at the circus and lead into the Court Of Owls. At that point, I really, really lost interest.
‘Pants’.
I don't understand how Nightwing gets a 'pants'. But I'm more biased than a Fox News anchor. XD
Actually, I might edge it more towards a 'borrow' after giving it a bit more thought. I still like the character, and the stories weren't all that bad... but neither was I was overwhelmed by much of anything. I think the series had better days before the New 52.
I don't think anything featuring Dick will live up to what Dixon was doing over ten years ago, but Higgins has certainly been improving on the book.
@Nick; And on the topic of Geoff Johns, this is my opinion, but I've felt that since the end of Blackest Night, Johns has slowly fell off. His quality of work has dwindled, from my perspective, and few of his books have had high points for me. I think the WORLD of the Sinestro Corp War, and I understand his aspirations for GL, but he certainly hasn't been at the level he COULD be. In terms of raw talent, he is arguably the best mainstream writer next to Bendis.
And Detective still sells well (around the same numbers as GL if I recall), and that book has moments where it's a steaming pile. haha
Batwoman Pretty, but also pretty boring. Nice art, nice layouts, but one long boring story. After a year, I still can’t get a feel for how effective Batwoman really is in the Gotham environment. I want to like this book better than I do… but I dropped it after #10.
You held out longer than I did. I think I made six.
Well, I wanted to give the book a chance. The Detective stories were pretty good, and the art was decent enough. But this just wasn't keeping my interest.
I really missed Rucka's voice on this book.
Williams' art is genuinely brilliant, but his scripts just don't bring the character to life for me.
I found myself flipping through the issues, rather than reading them.
Many books I read the initial few issues with a mind to get them in trade or hardcover.
Batwoman - I do miss Rucka (I'm biased because he's one of my favorite writers) but I didn't feel the story was all that lacking. Batgirl - As mad as I want to be about Steph not being in the suit, it's Gail Simone, it's Babs, and it's Batgirl. Batman Detective - seeing a pattern here? :) Legion Lost Teen Titans
A couple titles I double-dip on (getting both the digital on day and date and then the trade): Demon Knights Legion of Super Heroes
A few others I've ordered in trade based on word of mouth on here and other places: All-Star Western Red Lanterns - actually enjoyed it more than I thought I would.
And then there's the books I continue to buy: Wonder Woman Aquaman Red Hood & the Outlaws Supergirl
So one way or another, DC's found a way to get a nice chunk of change out of me, no doubt about it.
There are story decisions and character directions I don't like, but I avoid those books as a result and instead throw my money at those I do like (at the moment: Aquaman, Supergirl, Batman Incorporated, Worlds' Finest), so it that regard, new DC is no different to old DC to me. I do have two big problems with the line despite all that, though: pacing and attitude.
From the outset, we were told that writers were free to ignore the old "six issue stories for the trade" mentality and could make their stories whatever length they needed to be. I think a lot of people assumed that meant more 2 or 3 parters, and while we're seeing that, it looks like the 7, 8, 9 or more issue storyline (particularly with the crossovers) is getting to be more of the thing. And if the story truly warrants the extra elbow room, fine, but now I think they're stretching some stories well past their should-be ending points, killing my interest in books I was really liking at the outset (Demon Knights and Batman chief among those). I'm not saying we need to go back to only done-in-ones, but still, you can only keep some of these things going for so long before it's obvious you're just stalling.
The attitude thing is a little harder to define, because it's a lot of things. It's saying you have very concrete plans at the outset, and then going back, counteracting previous statements, and getting defensive when fans call you on it. It's avoiding fans' questions at cons, and instead turning the responses into attacks at those very fans. It's not just saying "we have no plans for that character at this time," but then also portraying fans in a negative light just because they may be passionate about those very characters (Wally West, Donna Troy, Cassie Cain, Stephanie Brown, etc.). It's getting defensive when people compare the new stuff to the old stuff, even though A.) the big change was so surprising that people didn't have much time to make their peace with the old stuff before accepting the new, and B.) comparison is inevitable, particularly here in Nerd Land (see also, Marvel vs DC, Kirk vs Picard, Classic Who vs New Who, etc. etc. etc.).
I hadn't realized it until now, but I missed a book in my reviews. So...
The Flash
Flash has long been a favorite of mine, regardless of the incarnation, and I was looking forward to seeing Barry Allen in action again. But I'm sitting on the fence with this title. It just doesn't feel like a Flash comic to me, Barry or no Barry. The stories feel faster than the character, and I'm not much liking the character as much as I should.
Barry, for all the later derision that he was essentially a boring character, always had an air of competence and quick wits, as well as a basic cheerfulness. I'm not seeing much of it this time around; most of the time he seems to be caught up in what's going on around him, but can't seem to anticipate or effectively deal with the problem. And, in general, he seems glummer. I'd rather have the old Wally back then this listless version of Barry.
I miss the old supporting casts, and I don't like that there's no Iris West anymore.
I'm not crazy about the reinvention of most of the Rogues thus far, though the Grodd storyline was interesting. I did like the idea of Flash inadvertently ripping holes in the time continuum when he accesses the Speed Force. The stories don't grab me as being anywhere near classic stature, but they're not so bad that I would shun them -- in fact, despite my reservations, they're not all that bad. Maybe the problem is me and I'm just not giving it enough of a chance.
Same with the art: Francis Manapul is obviously putting his heart into it, and there are some dynamic page layouts here -- but, for some reason, I liked the Marcus To issues a bit better, maybe because he wasn't trying as hard to make the work look 'interesting', but solid.
The costume, once an elegant design by the great Carmine Infantino, has been mucked up with the inclusion of lightning seams that apparently light up when he runs, and a stupid looking chin guard, that only serve to make the costume ugly and busy. Given that the character spits out sparks and spins out multiple images when he runs, the costume doesn't need to be busier.
In short, not a bad series, definitely worth getting, but it's still coming up a bit short of the old Flash magic.
Over the first year, I tried out a total of 19 titles from DC.
Favorites:
Animal Man - This book is a true follow-up to the series I was reading in the late 80's. The character shines in this genre, and I look forward to the new issue each month.
Wonder Woman - I'm a big fan of the character for years... and I have no problem saying this is my absolute favorite treatment of the character ever. Emphasizing a modern Pantheon really helps the character NOT to just be "Female Superman." Plus, Cliff Chiang art... amazing.
Dial H - New, but already one I look forward to every month. As with the previous two titles I've mentioned, there is a genre change of sorts with the revival of this title, which, in my opinion, works.
Enjoyed, but dropped:
Demon Knights - Great book, but the plodding pace was too much for me to handle in monthly installments. I'll try to get this in trades, though.
Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - Lemire was doing amazing things on this book. I loved it. Then, he left, and the writing became almost indecipherable for me in the first issue of the new creator. Ugh.
Cancelled before its time:
OMAC - This was a great, fun, Kirby-esque book. I still miss it.
Terrible:
The Savage Hawkman - Just a terrible idea, pasting on the concept of 90's era Witchblade on the character, combined making Carter Hall whiny, and a dash of muddy art. It would be my least favorite of the New 52 if it weren't for...
Firestorm - Congratulations, DC. Firestorm is my favorite character of all time. I own two entire runs of both previous series (one to keep, one to eventually bind). I own every Firestorm toy ever produced. I own original art from several issues of the Firestorm books. I have posters of the character. I've commissioned original art of the character. Yet, you, DC, still managed to make me loathe Firestorm.
The New 52, as best as I can surmise, was initiated to take less successful properties and re-imagine them for a new generation, while leaving some successful properties (namely, Batman and GL) relatively unchanged.
That is a rather simplistic stating of the idea, and it doesn't factor in changes to characters to better secure rights, lure creators, etc., etc., etc.
Personally, I never found the concept of Firestorm fundamentally flawed, but I'll concede that, since his original series ended, the character hasn't found firm footing.
A few years ago, they gave Firestorm an overhaul, to make the character appeal to a new generation, and it was actually a solid, well thought-out change that improved the mythos of the character. Admittedly, that new series started off shaky, trying to completely distance itself from the original, but then it caught a great stride and I was sorry to see it go.
I was excited about the new Firestorm in the New 52...
... and then I read it.
It did not come across as a solid, well thought-out change that improved the character. It came across as making a bunch of changes for change sake that they then just threw a bunch of ideas at it and hoped something would stick.
"We are going to completely gut the concept of the character, the idea of the two characters becoming one hero, by having them be able to form their own version of Firestorm separately." (Don't bother citing the previous time when Ronnie Raymond was able to do this, because I'll point out that happened in a book not title "Firestorm," and that book also gave us battle armor Booster Gold, Captain Atom with a mullet, was so 90's it made my head hurt.)
"We are really keen on the visual of this Firestorm/Anti-Monitor mash-up, so we're gonna shove that in there. And give him terrible, terrible dialogue."
"And you know how Iron Man has to battle versions of his armor from other governments? We're gonna have that too."
So-called "cool ideas" that are not fleshed out are what killed this book for me. This version of Firestorm I actually do find fundamentally flawed, and I would have a hard time going back to it short of a complete reboot. The chances of me picking up the Dan Jurgens run are really, really low.
Oh, and...
Fun Fact #4736 -
Did you know that one out of every 6.38 people in the New 52 DCU is a Firestorm?
It is true. Fake scientists in the New 52 state that if you were to stack everyone that contains the "Firestorm protocol" in the world, the stack would be one and a half times the height of the Empire State Building, and would cause a thermonuclear meltdown that would render the Earth uninhabitable for 3.6 million years.
I hadn't realized it until now, but I missed a book in my reviews. So...
The Flash
Flash has long been a favorite of mine, regardless of the incarnation, and I was looking forward to seeing Barry Allen in action again. But I'm sitting on the fence with this title. It just doesn't feel like a Flash comic to me, Barry or no Barry. The stories feel faster than the character, and I'm not much liking the character as much as I should.
Barry, for all the later derision that he was essentially a boring character, always had an air of competence and quick wits, as well as a basic cheerfulness. I'm not seeing much of it this time around; most of the time he seems to be caught up in what's going on around him, but can't seem to anticipate or effectively deal with the problem. And, in general, he seems glummer. I'd rather have the old Wally back then this listless version of Barry.
I miss the old supporting casts, and I don't like that there's no Iris West anymore.
I'm not crazy about the reinvention of most of the Rogues thus far, though the Grodd storyline was interesting. I did like the idea of Flash inadvertently ripping holes in the time continuum when he accesses the Speed Force. The stories don't grab me as being anywhere near classic stature, but they're not so bad that I would shun them -- in fact, despite my reservations, they're not all that bad. Maybe the problem is me and I'm just not giving it enough of a chance.
Same with the art: Francis Manapul is obviously putting his heart into it, and there are some dynamic page layouts here -- but, for some reason, I liked the Marcus To issues a bit better, maybe because he wasn't trying as hard to make the work look 'interesting', but solid.
The costume, once an elegant design by the great Carmine Infantino, has been mucked up with the inclusion of lightning seams that apparently light up when he runs, and a stupid looking chin guard, that only serve to make the costume ugly and busy. Given that the character spits out sparks and spins out multiple images when he runs, the costume doesn't need to be busier.
In short, not a bad series, definitely worth getting, but it's still coming up a bit short of the old Flash magic.
I started by trying 12? of the new52 (which was already fewer than I was getting pre new52). Im now buying 7 and half those are honestly habitual buys (Batman related). Ive moved much of my money to Marvel but still not buying what I was just a couple years ago (and not because I cant afford it or dont want to read more).
Just read my first New 52 story! Yes I really am that far behind!
Justice League: Origin HC
Ho, boy, I could not be further from the target audience for this book. I just read the entire hardcover in about an hour or so. And I really tried to take my time. There's just not a lot there.
I can't believe that the creative forces behind this book would boil down Darkseid and Apokolips to what we get in these six issues. There's more to come, of course, but so far they look like standard alien villains with a standard powerhouse leader. No depth. I've read the first two Fourth World omnibuses, so I know there's a reason to stick around for the rest of the story, but for those readers who haven't ... ?
I will agree with others who have said that the set-up of the team felt rushed. Maybe that's what was intended? The action/battle/splash page-y goodness is all over in the blink of an eye, so I guess it's asking too much to get more than a cursory amount of character development. This is a team book, though, so you kinda know that going in.
I didn't hate the book. Really I didn't! I just wanted a deeper Justice League comic book experience and didn't get it. I'll still read this, but I'll borrow it from the library from now on, with lower expectations.
I'd been out of comics since about 95, but hopped back in with the new 52 (after listening to CGS for a year and a half). A quick (and possibly wrong) count tells me that I'm reading 11 out of the 22 titles I tried.
The best: All-Star Western - Moritat is perfect for this, and the writing is still great. The Gotham thing was a nice surprise, and it hasn't got tired yet. Wonder Woman - I liked it more at the beginning of the series, but it's still top drawer. Cliff Chiang is great. Animal Man/Swamp Thing - I didn't mind the pacing, but now that things are really picking up we get hit with a zero issue. Aggrevating. Maybe they should have skipped zero til they at least finished the story. Justice League Dark - Started slow, and if Milligan stayed on it I'd likely be gone by now. Lemire has really turned it around. Constantine is well done here. The rest of the team I have limited experience with. The current story is fun.
Still reading: Aquaman - I never cared for this character, but all the good reviews on this forum made me try it. It was worth it. Batman - Liked the Court of Owls story, other than the brother thing though that wasn't horrible. Batman Inc - TBH I barely remember what I've read, besides bat-cow, but I'm keeping on with it. Demon Knights - Started strong, but it's easily the worst offender for dragging a story on unnecessarily. Please end the pain soon. Dial H - I almost didn't get this, but it almost made my best section. Very unexpected. I love the dark wackiness. Justice League - Very forgettable, but it seems to be getting less so. I'd have dropped it if it wasn't JL. JLI - I would be reading this if it weren't cancelled. It started below average in quality, but really got better right around the time it got canned. Too bad.
Dropped it: Action - I liked it a lot at first, with the old timey feel, but I've always thought Superman was the dullest character out there. I last eight or so issues before I couldn't do it anymore. Deathstroke - Read #1 and didn't hate it, but it wasn't enough to keep on. Earth 2 - Liked it, but dropped it. Probably because I don't care about alternate worlds. GI Combat - Like Unknown Soldier, but the story didn't grab me enough to keep on after 1. Detective - Something had to go. Stopped at 1. Green Arrow - Stopped after 1. Not good. Men of War - Read 1. Considered continuing, but didn't. If it had a $4 tag, it didn't have a chance. Stormwatch - Read 1, didn't like it. Worlds Finest - I don't care about the characters, and thought it was a hellacious bore. I was surprised so many liked it. Suicide Squad - Bought 1. Considered buying more but didn't make the cut.
Firestorm - Congratulations, DC. Firestorm is my favorite character of all time. I own two entire runs of both previous series (one to keep, one to eventually bind). I own every Firestorm toy ever produced. I own original art from several issues of the Firestorm books. I have posters of the character. I've commissioned original art of the character. Yet, you, DC, still managed to make me loathe Firestorm.
Wow. Ouch. As a lifelong Captain Marvel fan who was quickly dissatisfied with the new Captain Marvel Shazam, I can sympathize.
Just for my own interest, I went through what I bought and checked how long I stuck with each one.
Action Comics - 3 issues (decided to wait for the trade, if at all) All-Star Western - 1 issue (decided I'd wait for the collection, since that's how I read Jonah Hex; that 1 issue really has me excited for the collection, though) Animal Man - 7 issues (liked it pretty well, but opted to wait for the trades if I wanted to read anymore) Aquaman - All so far (probably my favorite of the first batch, which was a happy surprise for me because I'm not usually a big Johns fan) Batgirl - 1 issue (wanted to like it, but couldn't get into it at all) Batman - 8 issues (Owls thing went on way past my interest in it... they kinda lost me with "Haly Circus... OF DOOOOOOOOOM!") Batman Incorporated - All so far (Has yet to feel like a DCnU book, though) Batwoman - 1 hardcover collection (won't be getting anymore... Rucka is sorely missed here) Blue Beetle - 1 issue (felt too much like a lesser retread of the previous series) Catwoman - 4 issues (mostly liked the art, but lost interest in the story) Demon Knights - 8 issues (liked it, but the plodding pace made me decide to switch to trades if I decided I wanted to read any more) Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - 1 issue (kinda disappointing) Justice League - 2 issues (the first and then the first Shazam story... didn't enjoy either) Mister Terrific - 1 issue (maybe my biggest disappointment of the initial batch) National Comics - 1 issue (the Kid Eternity reboot, which I'd actually like to see more of) O.M.A.C. - 1 issue (not bad, but just didn't grab me) Stormwatch - 1 issue Superboy - 1 issue (but not the first issue, the one in which Supergirl appeared... decided I wouldn't be going back) Supergirl - All so far (enjoying this take on Kara, especially after the puerile, jailbaity start to the last version of her pretty much salted the earth for everything that came after, no matter how good those stories may have been) Superman - 3 issues (3 painfully overwritten issues) Wonder Woman - 3 issues (decided to wait for the trade) Worlds' Finest - All so far (maybe my favorite book of the entire relaunched DCU on the characterization alone)
Another New52 review -- though, technically, this isn't one of the New 52, it is part of the New DCU.
National Comics - Eternity.
This is the first of about a half-dozen one-shots featuring some of the lesser echelon of the DCU. What I can't figure out is why they're all one-shots under the National Comics banner instead of being a six-issue mini-series featuring six different try-outs. That would make more sense, wouldn't it? Especially since National Comics, originally a Quality Comics title acquired by DC decades earlier, would suggest showcasing characters from that particular corner of the DCU, and the current line-up doesn't seem to be following that course.
Kid Eternityis one of those Quality heroes, though, and this is his second or third revival at DC, the last one being a couple of decades ago through Vertigo. This time, like the last, they've stripped away the innocent kid who was killed prematurely and introduced much darker elements into the series. Unlike his previous incarnations, Christopher Freeman can't call up the spirits of heroes, real or fictitious; just the spirits of those unfortunate souls on his autopsy table down at the city morgue, where he interrogates them to learn the names of their killers. One problem with that is that the dead don't always tell the truth. And, yes, we do see Mr Keeper, Freeman's old spirit guide in this story -- but he ain't what he used to be either, and there's a bit of implied menace about his character.
The art by Cully Hamner is very good (I seldom see Hamner art that isn't) and suitable to the nature of the story. The story by Jeff Lemire is surprisingly good, in that I wasn't sure I was going to like this particular twist to the legend. But Lemire twists it quite well and throws a few spins into the concept. I enjoyed it much more than I anticipated. That by itself disturbs me a little. I rather enjoyed those old, lighter stories and like the original concept much better. This version, like so much of the DCU these days, carries a dark tone that bleaches the innocence and the fun away. I like the story and think it was well done, but geez, does everything here have to be so danged depressing and cynical in tone?
I'd prefer lighter, but this is still too good to pass. 'Buy'.
EarthGBilly: Feel much the same way you do about Firestorm. I wasn't completely opposed to the new direction, as I thought it could have been taken to a pretty interesting place, but they didn't. It wound up being very hackneyed and not particularly interesting.
Wanted to mention something about Podcast 1271 (New 52 OYL). I'm overall not as down on the New 52 books as I heard, with stories that I'm still following from Action, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, JL, JL Dark, Batwoman, Demon Knights, and Batgirl. But one point made is something I sort of thought was contrary to one of the ideas of the New 52.
The guys mention the lack of continuity between JL and some of the other books, but I had always taken (this was primarily supposition on my part, but nevertheless) as something the editors at DC had made an active decision to not care about. There was much talk about the Dwayne McDuffie concept of continuity--that being that each book would have its own unique story outside of all others, even if "guest appearances" from other characters in other books were made.
My belief (right or wrong) was that each sub-genre of the New 52 (Dark, Edge, Justice League, Batman, Superman, Green Lantern and Young Justice) would have its OWN continuity. In other words, while characters from Justice League may show up in JL Dark, their appearance won't even be referenced in the mainstream JL book. Wonder Woman's story is tightly tied in with JL, but her imprint/sub-genre (whatever you want to call it) is part of JL.
Does this make sense to anyone else? Am I completely off base?
My belief (right or wrong) was that each sub-genre of the New 52 (Dark, Edge, Justice League, Batman, Superman, Green Lantern and Young Justice) would have its OWN continuity. In other words, while characters from Justice League may show up in JL Dark, their appearance won't even be referenced in the mainstream JL book. Wonder Woman's story is tightly tied in with JL, but her imprint/sub-genre (whatever you want to call it) is part of JL.
Does this make sense to anyone else? Am I completely off base?
Makes sense to me, and it's a good way to look at it. I remember a while back Marvel tried to do something where all their books existed in the same continunity and worked in a sort of "real-time" environment. So if Thor was fighting the Destroyer in the streets of New York, you'd have Spider-Man swinging overhead in the background AND IN THE SAME MONTH Spider-Man would be swinging through New York to stop Doc Ock's latest scheme and there's Thor in the background fighting the Destroyer.
You wanna talk an editorial nightmare? Wowsers! :)
It's not difficult for me to separate Wonder Woman's solo title from what she's doing in the JLA. Or seeing Tim Drake show up in the Batman books when he's running for his life in Teen Titans and was apparently never a Robin. Continunity can be a humongous shackle for readers AND editors to bear, but at the same time, there's a need for some kind of unity in the work. I think the New52 (and are we done calling it that now?) have achieved that. It's a very loose continuity, but it's there.
May I try and ask an objective question as someone who doesn't collect anything from the relaunch:
Did the relaunch make a difference? Had DCU just maintained its old continuity, but just had these storylines in the old DCU, would it have essentially worked or did there have to be a relaunch to get these current storylines?
May I try and ask an objective question as someone who doesn't collect anything from the relaunch:
Did the relaunch make a difference? Had DCU just maintained its old continuity, but just had these storylines in the old DCU, would it have essentially worked or did there have to be a relaunch to get these current storylines?
M
I think so. I think they were trying to shove off the yoke of (most of) the continuity that's "plagued" them (note the quotes), but at the same time trying to stay true to the core of the character and what makes them great. And it's been a mixed bag - folks genuinely don't seem happy with Superman's books, but I'm reading Batman and Wonder Woman on a regular basis for the first time in years (and in Wondy's case, EVER!).
Comments
I picked up Justice League and StormWatch.
I like Justice League, but it seems a bit forgettable from month to month.
The first story arc was neat, but rushed, and for brand new readers, they should have built up the team over a longer period of time with proper introductions of each character.
I think DC had a chance to build a strong reader base over time and blew it.
I am just not sure what to make of StormWatch. I have trouble remembering who each character is. I don't understand the story lines. I can't seem to be excited by any of the plot threads.
I always give ongoing series 12 issues before dropping them...and I am close to dropping StormWatch at the next convenient outpost.
Books I wish I had picked up, and will probably read digitally (when I buy my Windows 8 tablet):
Red Hood and the Outlaws - Kennth Rocafort and cheesecake go well together
Wonder Woman - Seems a bit polarizing, but I am drawn to it
VooDoo - The art looks amazing
Action Comics
New books:
None of the new stuff has caught my attention enough to order it.
I think I may pick up the JLA book when it comes out though.
Batman and Detective mildly improved.
The return of an actual Justice League.
Nightwing returns and book is improved.
Green lantern remains decent.
Cant think of anything else right now. Sadly anything positive I can think of is also soiled by so much other nonsense and flaws.
I like Barry. I miss Wally.
I'm collecting (and enjoying) Batman, Batgirl and Nightwing for the first time ever.
I dropped Demon Knights, Ressurection Man, Stormwatch (which i really expected to be good)
I dug Aquaman for the first time ever. Now Aquaman bores me again.
I discoved Kenneth Rocafort who i had somehow missed before now.
I miss having Mike Norton on my DC books.
Green Arrow has been jacked up terribly.
Animal Man & Swamp Thing got new leases on life.
I was disappointed in old favorites Dan Jurgens and George Perez. (fairly or not)
I was happily surprised with Earth 2
I was excited by then quickly disappointed with Before Watchmen.
most costumes are terrible. I like tatooed Roy Harper in a trucker cap.
soooo, good & bad.
I wasn't disappointed with either Jurgens or Perez, except that their Superman work feels a bit flat. And that, given Perez's complaints when he came off of the book, appears to be the result of micromanaging from editors and management.
@Nick; And on the topic of Geoff Johns, this is my opinion, but I've felt that since the end of Blackest Night, Johns has slowly fell off. His quality of work has dwindled, from my perspective, and few of his books have had high points for me. I think the WORLD of the Sinestro Corp War, and I understand his aspirations for GL, but he certainly hasn't been at the level he COULD be. In terms of raw talent, he is arguably the best mainstream writer next to Bendis.
And Detective still sells well (around the same numbers as GL if I recall), and that book has moments where it's a steaming pile. haha
Williams' art is genuinely brilliant, but his scripts just don't bring the character to life for me.
I found myself flipping through the issues, rather than reading them.
Batwoman - I do miss Rucka (I'm biased because he's one of my favorite writers) but I didn't feel the story was all that lacking.
Batgirl - As mad as I want to be about Steph not being in the suit, it's Gail Simone, it's Babs, and it's Batgirl.
Batman
Detective - seeing a pattern here? :)
Legion Lost
Teen Titans
A couple titles I double-dip on (getting both the digital on day and date and then the trade):
Demon Knights
Legion of Super Heroes
A few others I've ordered in trade based on word of mouth on here and other places:
All-Star Western
Red Lanterns - actually enjoyed it more than I thought I would.
And then there's the books I continue to buy:
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
Red Hood & the Outlaws
Supergirl
So one way or another, DC's found a way to get a nice chunk of change out of me, no doubt about it.
From the outset, we were told that writers were free to ignore the old "six issue stories for the trade" mentality and could make their stories whatever length they needed to be. I think a lot of people assumed that meant more 2 or 3 parters, and while we're seeing that, it looks like the 7, 8, 9 or more issue storyline (particularly with the crossovers) is getting to be more of the thing. And if the story truly warrants the extra elbow room, fine, but now I think they're stretching some stories well past their should-be ending points, killing my interest in books I was really liking at the outset (Demon Knights and Batman chief among those). I'm not saying we need to go back to only done-in-ones, but still, you can only keep some of these things going for so long before it's obvious you're just stalling.
The attitude thing is a little harder to define, because it's a lot of things. It's saying you have very concrete plans at the outset, and then going back, counteracting previous statements, and getting defensive when fans call you on it. It's avoiding fans' questions at cons, and instead turning the responses into attacks at those very fans. It's not just saying "we have no plans for that character at this time," but then also portraying fans in a negative light just because they may be passionate about those very characters (Wally West, Donna Troy, Cassie Cain, Stephanie Brown, etc.). It's getting defensive when people compare the new stuff to the old stuff, even though A.) the big change was so surprising that people didn't have much time to make their peace with the old stuff before accepting the new, and B.) comparison is inevitable, particularly here in Nerd Land (see also, Marvel vs DC, Kirk vs Picard, Classic Who vs New Who, etc. etc. etc.).
The Flash
Flash has long been a favorite of mine, regardless of the incarnation, and I was looking forward to seeing Barry Allen in action again. But I'm sitting on the fence with this title. It just doesn't feel like a Flash comic to me, Barry or no Barry. The stories feel faster than the character, and I'm not much liking the character as much as I should.
Barry, for all the later derision that he was essentially a boring character, always had an air of competence and quick wits, as well as a basic cheerfulness. I'm not seeing much of it this time around; most of the time he seems to be caught up in what's going on around him, but can't seem to anticipate or effectively deal with the problem. And, in general, he seems glummer. I'd rather have the old Wally back then this listless version of Barry.
I miss the old supporting casts, and I don't like that there's no Iris West anymore.
I'm not crazy about the reinvention of most of the Rogues thus far, though the Grodd storyline was interesting. I did like the idea of Flash inadvertently ripping holes in the time continuum when he accesses the Speed Force. The stories don't grab me as being anywhere near classic stature, but they're not so bad that I would shun them -- in fact, despite my reservations, they're not all that bad. Maybe the problem is me and I'm just not giving it enough of a chance.
Same with the art: Francis Manapul is obviously putting his heart into it, and there are some dynamic page layouts here -- but, for some reason, I liked the Marcus To issues a bit better, maybe because he wasn't trying as hard to make the work look 'interesting', but solid.
The costume, once an elegant design by the great Carmine Infantino, has been mucked up with the inclusion of lightning seams that apparently light up when he runs, and a stupid looking chin guard, that only serve to make the costume ugly and busy. Given that the character spits out sparks and spins out multiple images when he runs, the costume doesn't need to be busier.
In short, not a bad series, definitely worth getting, but it's still coming up a bit short of the old Flash magic.
Midway between a 'buy' and a 'borrow'.
Favorites:
Animal Man - This book is a true follow-up to the series I was reading in the late 80's. The character shines in this genre, and I look forward to the new issue each month.
Wonder Woman - I'm a big fan of the character for years... and I have no problem saying this is my absolute favorite treatment of the character ever. Emphasizing a modern Pantheon really helps the character NOT to just be "Female Superman." Plus, Cliff Chiang art... amazing.
Dial H - New, but already one I look forward to every month. As with the previous two titles I've mentioned, there is a genre change of sorts with the revival of this title, which, in my opinion, works.
Enjoyed, but dropped:
Demon Knights - Great book, but the plodding pace was too much for me to handle in monthly installments. I'll try to get this in trades, though.
Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - Lemire was doing amazing things on this book. I loved it. Then, he left, and the writing became almost indecipherable for me in the first issue of the new creator. Ugh.
Cancelled before its time:
OMAC - This was a great, fun, Kirby-esque book. I still miss it.
Terrible:
The Savage Hawkman - Just a terrible idea, pasting on the concept of 90's era Witchblade on the character, combined making Carter Hall whiny, and a dash of muddy art. It would be my least favorite of the New 52 if it weren't for...
Firestorm - Congratulations, DC. Firestorm is my favorite character of all time. I own two entire runs of both previous series (one to keep, one to eventually bind). I own every Firestorm toy ever produced. I own original art from several issues of the Firestorm books. I have posters of the character. I've commissioned original art of the character. Yet, you, DC, still managed to make me loathe Firestorm.
The New 52, as best as I can surmise, was initiated to take less successful properties and re-imagine them for a new generation, while leaving some successful properties (namely, Batman and GL) relatively unchanged.
That is a rather simplistic stating of the idea, and it doesn't factor in changes to characters to better secure rights, lure creators, etc., etc., etc.
Personally, I never found the concept of Firestorm fundamentally flawed, but I'll concede that, since his original series ended, the character hasn't found firm footing.
A few years ago, they gave Firestorm an overhaul, to make the character appeal to a new generation, and it was actually a solid, well thought-out change that improved the mythos of the character. Admittedly, that new series started off shaky, trying to completely distance itself from the original, but then it caught a great stride and I was sorry to see it go.
I was excited about the new Firestorm in the New 52...
... and then I read it.
It did not come across as a solid, well thought-out change that improved the character. It came across as making a bunch of changes for change sake that they then just threw a bunch of ideas at it and hoped something would stick.
"We are going to completely gut the concept of the character, the idea of the two characters becoming one hero, by having them be able to form their own version of Firestorm separately." (Don't bother citing the previous time when Ronnie Raymond was able to do this, because I'll point out that happened in a book not title "Firestorm," and that book also gave us battle armor Booster Gold, Captain Atom with a mullet, was so 90's it made my head hurt.)
"We are really keen on the visual of this Firestorm/Anti-Monitor mash-up, so we're gonna shove that in there. And give him terrible, terrible dialogue."
"And you know how Iron Man has to battle versions of his armor from other governments? We're gonna have that too."
So-called "cool ideas" that are not fleshed out are what killed this book for me. This version of Firestorm I actually do find fundamentally flawed, and I would have a hard time going back to it short of a complete reboot. The chances of me picking up the Dan Jurgens run are really, really low.
Oh, and...
Fun Fact #4736 -
Did you know that one out of every 6.38 people in the New 52 DCU is a Firestorm?
It is true. Fake scientists in the New 52 state that if you were to stack everyone that contains the "Firestorm protocol" in the world, the stack would be one and a half times the height of the Empire State Building, and would cause a thermonuclear meltdown that would render the Earth uninhabitable for 3.6 million years.
Now you know.
Ive moved much of my money to Marvel but still not buying what I was just a couple years ago (and not because I cant afford it or dont want to read more).
Justice League: Origin HC
Ho, boy, I could not be further from the target audience for this book. I just read the entire hardcover in about an hour or so. And I really tried to take my time. There's just not a lot there.
I can't believe that the creative forces behind this book would boil down Darkseid and Apokolips to what we get in these six issues. There's more to come, of course, but so far they look like standard alien villains with a standard powerhouse leader. No depth. I've read the first two Fourth World omnibuses, so I know there's a reason to stick around for the rest of the story, but for those readers who haven't ... ?
I will agree with others who have said that the set-up of the team felt rushed. Maybe that's what was intended? The action/battle/splash page-y goodness is all over in the blink of an eye, so I guess it's asking too much to get more than a cursory amount of character development. This is a team book, though, so you kinda know that going in.
I didn't hate the book. Really I didn't! I just wanted a deeper Justice League comic book experience and didn't get it. I'll still read this, but I'll borrow it from the library from now on, with lower expectations.
The best:
All-Star Western - Moritat is perfect for this, and the writing is still great. The Gotham thing was a nice surprise, and it hasn't got tired yet.
Wonder Woman - I liked it more at the beginning of the series, but it's still top drawer. Cliff Chiang is great.
Animal Man/Swamp Thing - I didn't mind the pacing, but now that things are really picking up we get hit with a zero issue. Aggrevating. Maybe they should have skipped zero til they at least finished the story.
Justice League Dark - Started slow, and if Milligan stayed on it I'd likely be gone by now. Lemire has really turned it around. Constantine is well done here. The rest of the team I have limited experience with. The current story is fun.
Still reading:
Aquaman - I never cared for this character, but all the good reviews on this forum made me try it. It was worth it.
Batman - Liked the Court of Owls story, other than the brother thing though that wasn't horrible.
Batman Inc - TBH I barely remember what I've read, besides bat-cow, but I'm keeping on with it.
Demon Knights - Started strong, but it's easily the worst offender for dragging a story on unnecessarily. Please end the pain soon.
Dial H - I almost didn't get this, but it almost made my best section. Very unexpected. I love the dark wackiness.
Justice League - Very forgettable, but it seems to be getting less so. I'd have dropped it if it wasn't JL.
JLI - I would be reading this if it weren't cancelled. It started below average in quality, but really got better right around the time it got canned. Too bad.
Dropped it:
Action - I liked it a lot at first, with the old timey feel, but I've always thought Superman was the dullest character out there. I last eight or so issues before I couldn't do it anymore.
Deathstroke - Read #1 and didn't hate it, but it wasn't enough to keep on.
Earth 2 - Liked it, but dropped it. Probably because I don't care about alternate worlds.
GI Combat - Like Unknown Soldier, but the story didn't grab me enough to keep on after 1.
Detective - Something had to go. Stopped at 1.
Green Arrow - Stopped after 1. Not good.
Men of War - Read 1. Considered continuing, but didn't. If it had a $4 tag, it didn't have a chance.
Stormwatch - Read 1, didn't like it.
Worlds Finest - I don't care about the characters, and thought it was a hellacious bore. I was surprised so many liked it.
Suicide Squad - Bought 1. Considered buying more but didn't make the cut.
Captain MarvelShazam, I can sympathize.Action Comics - 3 issues (decided to wait for the trade, if at all)
All-Star Western - 1 issue (decided I'd wait for the collection, since that's how I read Jonah Hex; that 1 issue really has me excited for the collection, though)
Animal Man - 7 issues (liked it pretty well, but opted to wait for the trades if I wanted to read anymore)
Aquaman - All so far (probably my favorite of the first batch, which was a happy surprise for me because I'm not usually a big Johns fan)
Batgirl - 1 issue (wanted to like it, but couldn't get into it at all)
Batman - 8 issues (Owls thing went on way past my interest in it... they kinda lost me with "Haly Circus... OF DOOOOOOOOOM!")
Batman Incorporated - All so far (Has yet to feel like a DCnU book, though)
Batwoman - 1 hardcover collection (won't be getting anymore... Rucka is sorely missed here)
Blue Beetle - 1 issue (felt too much like a lesser retread of the previous series)
Catwoman - 4 issues (mostly liked the art, but lost interest in the story)
Demon Knights - 8 issues (liked it, but the plodding pace made me decide to switch to trades if I decided I wanted to read any more)
Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - 1 issue (kinda disappointing)
Justice League - 2 issues (the first and then the first Shazam story... didn't enjoy either)
Mister Terrific - 1 issue (maybe my biggest disappointment of the initial batch)
National Comics - 1 issue (the Kid Eternity reboot, which I'd actually like to see more of)
O.M.A.C. - 1 issue (not bad, but just didn't grab me)
Stormwatch - 1 issue
Superboy - 1 issue (but not the first issue, the one in which Supergirl appeared... decided I wouldn't be going back)
Supergirl - All so far (enjoying this take on Kara, especially after the puerile, jailbaity start to the last version of her pretty much salted the earth for everything that came after, no matter how good those stories may have been)
Superman - 3 issues (3 painfully overwritten issues)
Wonder Woman - 3 issues (decided to wait for the trade)
Worlds' Finest - All so far (maybe my favorite book of the entire relaunched DCU on the characterization alone)
National Comics - Eternity.
This is the first of about a half-dozen one-shots featuring some of the lesser echelon of the DCU. What I can't figure out is why they're all one-shots under the National Comics banner instead of being a six-issue mini-series featuring six different try-outs. That would make more sense, wouldn't it? Especially since National Comics, originally a Quality Comics title acquired by DC decades earlier, would suggest showcasing characters from that particular corner of the DCU, and the current line-up doesn't seem to be following that course.
Kid Eternity is one of those Quality heroes, though, and this is his second or third revival at DC, the last one being a couple of decades ago through Vertigo. This time, like the last, they've stripped away the innocent kid who was killed prematurely and introduced much darker elements into the series. Unlike his previous incarnations, Christopher Freeman can't call up the spirits of heroes, real or fictitious; just the spirits of those unfortunate souls on his autopsy table down at the city morgue, where he interrogates them to learn the names of their killers. One problem with that is that the dead don't always tell the truth. And, yes, we do see Mr Keeper, Freeman's old spirit guide in this story -- but he ain't what he used to be either, and there's a bit of implied menace about his character.
The art by Cully Hamner is very good (I seldom see Hamner art that isn't) and suitable to the nature of the story. The story by Jeff Lemire is surprisingly good, in that I wasn't sure I was going to like this particular twist to the legend. But Lemire twists it quite well and throws a few spins into the concept. I enjoyed it much more than I anticipated. That by itself disturbs me a little. I rather enjoyed those old, lighter stories and like the original concept much better. This version, like so much of the DCU these days, carries a dark tone that bleaches the innocence and the fun away. I like the story and think it was well done, but geez, does everything here have to be so danged depressing and cynical in tone?
I'd prefer lighter, but this is still too good to pass. 'Buy'.
Wanted to mention something about Podcast 1271 (New 52 OYL). I'm overall not as down on the New 52 books as I heard, with stories that I'm still following from Action, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, JL, JL Dark, Batwoman, Demon Knights, and Batgirl. But one point made is something I sort of thought was contrary to one of the ideas of the New 52.
The guys mention the lack of continuity between JL and some of the other books, but I had always taken (this was primarily supposition on my part, but nevertheless) as something the editors at DC had made an active decision to not care about. There was much talk about the Dwayne McDuffie concept of continuity--that being that each book would have its own unique story outside of all others, even if "guest appearances" from other characters in other books were made.
My belief (right or wrong) was that each sub-genre of the New 52 (Dark, Edge, Justice League, Batman, Superman, Green Lantern and Young Justice) would have its OWN continuity. In other words, while characters from Justice League may show up in JL Dark, their appearance won't even be referenced in the mainstream JL book. Wonder Woman's story is tightly tied in with JL, but her imprint/sub-genre (whatever you want to call it) is part of JL.
Does this make sense to anyone else? Am I completely off base?
You wanna talk an editorial nightmare? Wowsers! :)
It's not difficult for me to separate Wonder Woman's solo title from what she's doing in the JLA. Or seeing Tim Drake show up in the Batman books when he's running for his life in Teen Titans and was apparently never a Robin. Continunity can be a humongous shackle for readers AND editors to bear, but at the same time, there's a need for some kind of unity in the work. I think the New52 (and are we done calling it that now?) have achieved that. It's a very loose continuity, but it's there.
Did the relaunch make a difference? Had DCU just maintained its old continuity, but just had these storylines in the old DCU, would it have essentially worked or did there have to be a relaunch to get these current storylines?
M