I really enjoyed the episode, I'm glad that it turned out to be a fairly positive and entheusiastic conversation about the series, because I know I enjoyed it and I'm glad it didnt turn into a 'marvel suck' campaign. Drunk Cap was awesome, he should get his own podcast.
While certainly not perfect this event overall has been better than the last few. I'm glad we didn't get 6 epilogues that lead into other books like Fear Itself did.
Definitely a better look. The line up had me worried but I can work with this. My new concern is whether or not I can keep up with all these X-Men and Avengers team titles...
Avengers is up to like 9 team titles (counting Avengers twice for it being bi-weekly then A+X).
X-Men is up to 11 team titles (counting Uncanny Avengers and A+X in both, All New X-Men being bi-weekly and X-Factor).
And that's not even counting the solo titles or things like the Thunderbolts.
The idea Cyclops won is only acceptable if you believe Magneto was right all these years. Cyclops has been isolating himself and his people for years. If he had agreed to work with the Avengers at the start he could have could saved a lot of struggle. I will admit I am not a Cyclops fan.
I thought the art was not really great toward the middle part of this book. It felt rushed. I thought issue 9 was the strongest of the event.
The idea Cyclops won is only acceptable if you believe Magneto was right all these years. Cyclops has been isolating himself and his people for years. If he had agreed to work with the Avengers at the start he could have could saved a lot of struggle. I will admit I am not a Cyclops fan.
I thought the art was not really great toward the middle part of this book. It felt rushed. I thought issue 9 was the strongest of the event.
Drunk Cap was hilarious.
I fail to see your point. Cyclops was all about keeping the remaining Mutants alive. He wasn't trying to wipe out the human race or make mutants the dominant species. He was trying to ensure what little mutants are left are safe and protected.
I would argue that the character portrayal of Cyclops and Captain America at the beginning was weak. They didn't have enough reason to come to blows. Then the pacing sagged a little after the middle but overall I enjoyed the hell out of this event.
The idea Cyclops won is only acceptable if you believe Magneto was right all these years. Cyclops has been isolating himself and his people for years. If he had agreed to work with the Avengers at the start he could have could saved a lot of struggle. I will admit I am not a Cyclops fan.
I thought the art was not really great toward the middle part of this book. It felt rushed. I thought issue 9 was the strongest of the event.
Drunk Cap was hilarious.
I fail to see your point. Cyclops was all about keeping the remaining Mutants alive. He wasn't trying to wipe out the human race or make mutants the dominant species. He was trying to ensure what little mutants are left are safe and protected.
I would argue that the character portrayal of Cyclops and Captain America at the beginning was weak. They didn't have enough reason to come to blows. Then the pacing sagged a little after the middle but overall I enjoyed the hell out of this event.
In my opinion it was Bendis's fault for not providing enough justification in that early story. And Cyclops was about saving the mutant race at almost any cost. It was not shown real well in the event, but Scott has been crossing lines for years leading up to this event. It was his actions leading up to this story that made many of his closest friends not trust him anymore.
In my opinion it was Bendis's fault for not providing enough justification in that early story. And Cyclops was about saving the mutant race at almost any cost. It was not shown real well in the event, but Scott has been crossing lines for years leading up to this event. It was his actions leading up to this story that made many of his closest friends not trust him anymore.
Ok, so what actions are we talking about? I've pretty much agreed with everything Cyclops pre AvX.
X-Force- when the Purifers wiped out a whole city of humans to kill one mutant child how could you not become proactive? We're talking about people who took a flame thrower to a whole hospital nursery. Neither humans nor mutants were safe from the Purifiers.
Utopia- So the Government hands over control of the saftey of the world to Norman Osborn and he decides to start a war with mutants. So Cyclops makes a statement by developing his own Nation. A place that could symbolize the unity of Mutants. While it was not ideal with peaceful co-existence dream it did help organise and unify Mutants as a species. What's the point of co-existence if you don't exist?
So besides for those two things where else did Cyclops stray? And I wouldn't say it was at "any cost". If that was the case he wouldn't have still sent teams around California and the world to protect both humans and mutants.
In my opinion it was Bendis's fault for not providing enough justification in that early story. And Cyclops was about saving the mutant race at almost any cost. It was not shown real well in the event, but Scott has been crossing lines for years leading up to this event. It was his actions leading up to this story that made many of his closest friends not trust him anymore.
Ok, so what actions are we talking about? I've pretty much agreed with everything Cyclops pre AvX.
X-Force- when the Purifers wiped out a whole city of humans to kill one mutant child how could you not become proactive? We're talking about people who took a flame thrower to a whole hospital nursery. Neither humans nor mutants were safe from the Purifiers.
Utopia- So the Government hands over control of the saftey of the world to Norman Osborn and he decides to start a war with mutants. So Cyclops makes a statement by developing his own Nation. A place that could symbolize the unity of Mutants. While it was not ideal with peaceful co-existence dream it did help organise and unify Mutants as a species. What's the point of co-existence if you don't exist?
So besides for those two things where else did Cyclops stray? And I wouldn't say it was at "any cost". If that was the case he wouldn't have still sent teams around California and the world to protect both humans and mutants.
Authorizing a hit squad is a betrayal of Xavier's principles which is what the team was founded on. It may make for a good comic, but if you take a step back it was the same thing the X-Men fought Magento for years over. The fact he lied about it cost him one of his closest friends, Beast. Not to mention it almost lead to the destruction of the world when Angel lost control and became Death again.
Sure Utopia was founded during Norman's reign, but it was still in war mode after the "good guys" won. That was the final nail the rail that ended up splintering the school. Not to mention Scott lying to Cap about something during one of events. Maybe it was Quenton Quire thing.
Who were two Avengers who had the closest ties to the X-men, Beast and Wolverine. Who were two men who felt Scott had betrayed the dream the most, Beast and Wolverine. The idea that Scott would cross almost any line to get things done and that he would use a child to do is at the heart of this event even if it is not exactly spelled out in the comic all the time.
Authorizing a hit squad is a betrayal of Xavier's principles which is what the team was founded on. It may make for a good comic, but if you take a step back it was the same thing the X-Men fought Magento for years over. The fact he lied about it cost him one of his closest friends, Beast. Not to mention it almost lead to the destruction of the world when Angel lost control and became Death again.
Sure Utopia was founded during Norman's reign, but it was still in war mode after the "good guys" won. That was the final nail the rail that ended up splintering the school. Not to mention Scott lying to Cap about something during one of events. Maybe it was Quenton Quire thing.
Who were two Avengers who had the closest ties to the X-men, Beast and Wolverine. Who were two men who felt Scott had betrayed the dream the most, Beast and Wolverine. The idea that Scott would cross almost any line to get things done and that he would use a child to do is at the heart of this event even if it is not exactly spelled out in the comic all the time.
Yes, he authorized a hit squad because of the Purifiers. Times have changed since Xavier first founded the X-Men and they faced off against Magneto. Mutants were reduced to less than 300 and everyone turned to Cyclops to keep them safe. What's the point of trying to push peaceful coexistence if your species is wiped out? Beast not knowing about anything was a plausible denyability. Cyclops but everything on his shoulders as a way to shield the rest of the X-Men.
As I stated before the Purifiers wiped out an entire town of humans to kill one mutant child. And I'm not talking something as simple as an explosive or a bomb. They shot and burned their way through hundreds of people. How do you combat that? Especially when you're numbers are severly limited? One Purifier with a bomb strapped to his chest could easily take out 10% of the mutant population. So why wait around for them to come to you?
And the main person to blame for Archangel is Wolverine. After Hope returned Cyclops disbanded X-Force. Wolverine took it upon himself to keep it going. (And Beast isn't happy with him about that. The main difference being Cyclops had to leave Beast in the hands of Norman Osborn for a lot longer than Beast would have wanted).
And children? Cyclops gave the kids a choice. They didn't have to fight if they didn't want to. He wasn't forcing them. And how old were the original X-Men when Professor X pitted them against Magneto? He knew through and through that Hope was to be the savior of mutant kind.
I'm not saying Cyclops took the moral high ground. I'm saying I understand everything he did pre AvX, hell if I was in his shoes I'd probably make the same decisions.
Authorizing a hit squad is a betrayal of Xavier's principles which is what the team was founded on. It may make for a good comic, but if you take a step back it was the same thing the X-Men fought Magento for years over. The fact he lied about it cost him one of his closest friends, Beast. Not to mention it almost lead to the destruction of the world when Angel lost control and became Death again.
Sure Utopia was founded during Norman's reign, but it was still in war mode after the "good guys" won. That was the final nail the rail that ended up splintering the school. Not to mention Scott lying to Cap about something during one of events. Maybe it was Quenton Quire thing.
Who were two Avengers who had the closest ties to the X-men, Beast and Wolverine. Who were two men who felt Scott had betrayed the dream the most, Beast and Wolverine. The idea that Scott would cross almost any line to get things done and that he would use a child to do is at the heart of this event even if it is not exactly spelled out in the comic all the time.
Yes, he authorized a hit squad because of the Purifiers. Times have changed since Xavier first founded the X-Men and they faced off against Magneto. Mutants were reduced to less than 300 and everyone turned to Cyclops to keep them safe. What's the point of trying to push peaceful coexistence if your species is wiped out? Beast not knowing about anything was a plausible denyability. Cyclops but everything on his shoulders as a way to shield the rest of the X-Men.
As I stated before the Purifiers wiped out an entire town of humans to kill one mutant child. And I'm not talking something as simple as an explosive or a bomb. They shot and burned their way through hundreds of people. How do you combat that? Especially when you're numbers are severly limited? One Purifier with a bomb strapped to his chest could easily take out 10% of the mutant population. So why wait around for them to come to you?
And the main person to blame for Archangel is Wolverine. After Hope returned Cyclops disbanded X-Force. Wolverine took it upon himself to keep it going. (And Beast isn't happy with him about that. The main difference being Cyclops had to leave Beast in the hands of Norman Osborn for a lot longer than Beast would have wanted).
And children? Cyclops gave the kids a choice. They didn't have to fight if they didn't want to. He wasn't forcing them. And how old were the original X-Men when Professor X pitted them against Magneto? He knew through and through that Hope was to be the savior of mutant kind.
I'm not saying Cyclops took the moral high ground. I'm saying I understand everything he did pre AvX, hell if I was in his shoes I'd probably make the same decisions.
Cyclops the X-Force idea in Wolverine's mind. He was the one who convinced Angel to continue to fall into Archangel. He does not get a pass for the events he initiated.
And you don't give kids a choice in something like that. That was Wolverine's point they were just kids. Lets not forget the second group of X-Men Xavier selected were older than his original students. One could argue that he had seen the error of letting children fight battles. The bottom line is a guy willing to do anything to save his race isn't the kind of guy I want in charge of one of the most powerful forces in the galaxy.
Wolverine is responsible for his own actions, Cyclops wanted to end X-Force before it might be discovered, become public and do damage. You can't pin Archangel on Cyke. That's like reversing your arugement and making Professor X responsible for Cyke letting kids fight.
And why shouldn't they get a choice? It's exactly what they've been trained for. Especially if the X-Men are not anywhere around who is supposed to defend them? During Schism only Cyclops and Wolverine were the only ones on Utopia to battle that Sentinel. So why shouldn't they help defend their own lives?
And wouldn't you do anything in your power to defend your family? Think of it as your immediate family. Brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, hell even the in laws (well...).
Ah, YEAH! DRUNK CAP! Nice! Overall I agree that the tone of the last issue felt more like an epilogue after Prof X died last issue and Cyke became Dark Phoenix. I was pretty much surprised at the ending though. I kinda thought that either Wanda or Hope or both were going to get killed off. So, yeah...looking forward to Marvel NOW! In fact, I'm almost regretting that I didn't order any of the Consequences books.
Comments
though i would like to hear ultimate drunk caps retort :)
Cool! I thought she was going to be in the New X-Men book. I guess I'll have to check out Uncanny X-Force.
...I was punk...
I bite my thumb at you sir!
Lol
M
Avengers is up to like 9 team titles (counting Avengers twice for it being bi-weekly then A+X).
X-Men is up to 11 team titles (counting Uncanny Avengers and A+X in both, All New X-Men being bi-weekly and X-Factor).
And that's not even counting the solo titles or things like the Thunderbolts.
I thought the art was not really great toward the middle part of this book. It felt rushed. I thought issue 9 was the strongest of the event.
Drunk Cap was hilarious.
I would argue that the character portrayal of Cyclops and Captain America at the beginning was weak. They didn't have enough reason to come to blows. Then the pacing sagged a little after the middle but overall I enjoyed the hell out of this event.
X-Force- when the Purifers wiped out a whole city of humans to kill one mutant child how could you not become proactive? We're talking about people who took a flame thrower to a whole hospital nursery. Neither humans nor mutants were safe from the Purifiers.
Utopia- So the Government hands over control of the saftey of the world to Norman Osborn and he decides to start a war with mutants. So Cyclops makes a statement by developing his own Nation. A place that could symbolize the unity of Mutants. While it was not ideal with peaceful co-existence dream it did help organise and unify Mutants as a species. What's the point of co-existence if you don't exist?
So besides for those two things where else did Cyclops stray? And I wouldn't say it was at "any cost". If that was the case he wouldn't have still sent teams around California and the world to protect both humans and mutants.
Sure Utopia was founded during Norman's reign, but it was still in war mode after the "good guys" won. That was the final nail the rail that ended up splintering the school. Not to mention Scott lying to Cap about something during one of events. Maybe it was Quenton Quire thing.
Who were two Avengers who had the closest ties to the X-men, Beast and Wolverine. Who were two men who felt Scott had betrayed the dream the most, Beast and Wolverine. The idea that Scott would cross almost any line to get things done and that he would use a child to do is at the heart of this event even if it is not exactly spelled out in the comic all the time.
As I stated before the Purifiers wiped out an entire town of humans to kill one mutant child. And I'm not talking something as simple as an explosive or a bomb. They shot and burned their way through hundreds of people. How do you combat that? Especially when you're numbers are severly limited? One Purifier with a bomb strapped to his chest could easily take out 10% of the mutant population. So why wait around for them to come to you?
And the main person to blame for Archangel is Wolverine. After Hope returned Cyclops disbanded X-Force. Wolverine took it upon himself to keep it going. (And Beast isn't happy with him about that. The main difference being Cyclops had to leave Beast in the hands of Norman Osborn for a lot longer than Beast would have wanted).
And children? Cyclops gave the kids a choice. They didn't have to fight if they didn't want to. He wasn't forcing them. And how old were the original X-Men when Professor X pitted them against Magneto? He knew through and through that Hope was to be the savior of mutant kind.
I'm not saying Cyclops took the moral high ground. I'm saying I understand everything he did pre AvX, hell if I was in his shoes I'd probably make the same decisions.
And you don't give kids a choice in something like that. That was Wolverine's point they were just kids. Lets not forget the second group of X-Men Xavier selected were older than his original students. One could argue that he had seen the error of letting children fight battles. The bottom line is a guy willing to do anything to save his race isn't the kind of guy I want in charge of one of the most powerful forces in the galaxy.
And why shouldn't they get a choice? It's exactly what they've been trained for. Especially if the X-Men are not anywhere around who is supposed to defend them? During Schism only Cyclops and Wolverine were the only ones on Utopia to battle that Sentinel. So why shouldn't they help defend their own lives?
And wouldn't you do anything in your power to defend your family? Think of it as your immediate family. Brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, hell even the in laws (well...).
In fact, I'm almost regretting that I didn't order any of the Consequences books.